My problems with girls..

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I knew what you meant but my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

Over confidence appears as arrogance, which is where people assume condifent guys as "a***holes".

I define an a***hole who bullies others without reason and does it for attention, so when I describe the term I mean men (or woman) who are horrible to other people and do not care about the consequences.

Now I know over confident people can be arrogant too, but they are not a***holes, although I have been jealous of one.

No, that sort of pack mentality is nothing to do with confidence, that's just a form of attention seeking.

A popular cool guy doesn't always have to be an a***hole though. I have a friend who is a confident cool guy but I kind of didn't like his attention seeking attitude. I do not care if he has 100's of girls.

Fair enough, I wasn't bothered if you did. Sorry for the rant.

I think the issue here might boil down to perceptions and definitions of the term "as*hole"/"jerk".

A "nice guy", the kind who will put themselves in unreasonable and severely self compromising and inconvenient situations, and expect women to fall in love with them in return, frequently view any man who doesn't go to the lengths they do to please a woman, a jerk or an as*hole.

They will view a man as a jerk or as*hole because he said "no" to her in what might have been a reasonable situation to say "no" in, or because he doesn't do everything she asks or constantly shower her with gifts and flowers and follow her around like a little puppy.

They are also quick to stereotype and frequently assume that men with tattoos or who ride motorcycles and give off a "bad boy"image are actually bad people who treat women particularly poorly.

The irony is, most bikers have a code of honor and would never hurt a woman.

Women are generally more attracted to men who are more solemn because they interpret solemness as strength. They view him as a man who thinks through his decisions and can't be taken advantage of easily. He is in command of his emotions and of his own life. Or that is the impression they get.

It does not mean he's not actually a nice person or that he treats women poorly. With the woman of his interest, he might be quite nice, but nice by a reasonable definition, not Mr. "nice guy's" definition.


For the record, in my experience, a better indicator than a "bad boy" image that a guy is a jerk would be that he drives a flashy, expensive car, wears $300 dress shoes and hates animals. But in my experience, these men don't want much more than trophy wives, either, and so usually date like minded or equivalently minded women.

the last time I heard anyone consider a biker an as*hole is when I was 9 and my grandma was yelling at them for driving to slow...
Most men who consider themselves "nice", use the term "jerk" to define a guy who treats other people like crap yet somehow has a girlfriend.

Usualy the biker thing is more about why women are attracted to "bad boys" which is actualy a whole other thing sinces most guys who fall under the "bad boy" label usualy are just nice people who just clash with accepted norms in the societies they're apart of. "Bad boy" and "jerk" are not the same thing.

Hell even "bad boys" have asked the question why is it women fall for as*holes.
My college sociology professor(who was in a biker troop) came to the conclusion that "its because as*holes need love too, pity so many good women get pulled in by them"

There's nice, and there is "nice". The former refers to someone who is actually a nice person and the latter refers to someone who thinks they are nice but really aren't.

usually, we don't fall for as*holes. you're still stuck on that, but really it isn't true. the number of women who fall for as*holes (and stay with them if they are actually abusive, for example), is very small.

As far as I've understood, nice guy logic seems to go as follows:

"Women say they want men to be nice to them, but they end up dating as*holes."
Where 'men being nice' is implied to be them and 'as*holes' is implied to be anyone but them who is getting some.
Even if the logic is false, it seems to be a way to cope with that.

I can't blame them for it. Traditionally, I've found it easier to blame others for my inability to find any girl interested in me.
Instead of acknowledging that I need to spend some time in the sun and gain a lot of weight to not look like I'm a walking corpse, I can blame women and all men who are getting any, who seem to have some kind of evil secret agreement that leaves me out and ultimately also disadvantages women.
That last part is a bad argument for women to hang out with a nice guy instead.

To save the OP some time: I'm an equal jerk to men and women at the moment, and all it's resulted in is women finding me even less interesting.
Clearly, that method isn't working. I'll just get back to trying to improve myself, then.

Yeah and the strangest thing is most guys I meet who are "nice" are genuinely nice, granted alittle depressing when it comes to the topic of relationships do to past experiences or lack there of, but other than that all around good people.
But if your experience has been different then mine, well you'll be happy to know that there are guys who say they're nice and really are nice(no quotes)

Actualy no women fall for confidence(which we both agree on), the question alot of guys have is why a women would fall for a jerk/as*hole?
you seem to think I'm implying that women are like "oh hes an as*hole how dreamy" thats not it at all.

What I have been saying is an as*hole guy gets girls because if he comes off confident enough women will not see his behaviors as that of an as*hole. Now guys who are like this don't stay in relationship long, and most of them don't even want a relationship, just another notch on their belt.

PLEASE understand that I'm not saying all women go for as*holes, most women like confidence, and as*holes easily appear confident(basicly fake confidences) and women have to learn how to distingush fake confidences from real confidences to avoid as*holes and guys like that. Sadly not all women learn this at the same pace, some learn it at 16 others don't learn it till they're in their 50s.
Now maybe you can tell the diference and thus you don't fall for as*holes, which is great. But there's alot of women who can't yet and I know some of them personally.
So answer me this, Do you thinks possible its for a woman to be attracted to a jerk? if you say "yes, it is possible" then we're on the same page, because all I've been try to say is how it is possible for a woman to find abusive assholeish men attractive.

Last edited by Zinnel on 20 Mar 2012, 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

but your judgement of who is an as*hole is entirely subjective. the guys that you decide are as*holes (maybe because they are confident) may not be as*holes to those women.

and again, nice guys can also easily appear confident whereas as*holes can lack confidence. so confidence levels don't mean anything at all.

it has actually been found that personality has a huge impact on how attractive we find people, but nice men are actually considered better looking than men who are rude and nasty:

seriously, the idea that women go after as*holes needs to be put to rest. since the number of as*holes in the world is probably quite small (and the number of women who go for them is also just as small), it's not really a significant factor in most people's dating experience. it's not even relevant, really, except as a way for men to trash the men who get dates.

So your still assuming I mean all women, and your still assuming I'm saying acting like an as*hole is attractive
please, read, Its the confidences that is attracting the girl, confidences can mask assholish behavior.

Just like how physical attractiveness can blind some men from seeing negative traits in a women

like i asked before


For record the as*holes I'm talking about cheat on women, verbally abuse women and care only for themselves. Stop asuming guys use as*hole as a term for guys who get more dates than they do. My best friend for 6 years has always had better luck with girls, and I consider him a pretty awsome guy.

Seriously, it's gotten to the point having any luck at all with women is enough to brand you an as*hole. With that as pretty much the only criteria, then of course only as*holes get the girls.

It's envy, plain and simple. Guy A feels badly about not having what guy B has. Rather than admit to, and work toward overcoming, whatever weaknesses or flaws are preventing him from getting it, guy A simply decides that guy B is an as*hole who doesn't deserve it.

I will grant Zinnel's point; that sometimes arrogant assholery is mistaken by women for confidence. But such guys are very much a minority, and those girls who are initially fooled usually figure it out before too long. In other words, yeah it happens but if you can't get a date it's not because all the girls are taken by as*holes.

Yes this is it right there!!
the only reason the whole "nice vs. jerk" debate exist is because of that minority, and the people effected by them.

I'll agree that that may be where it started. Some guys take it way too far though. You don't think every guy who can get a date is a jerk, that's clear. But some guys really do seem to feel that way.

It's not really that simple. Plenty of people who work hard get screwed over in a lot of different ways, sometimes not surprisingly due to the actions of such as*holes. I doubt that everyone who hasn't got a date is lazy or in denial, just as not every guy who does necessarily have to be self centered. Only that from my experience, more often than not, people who are completely ok with walking all over other people to get whatever they want are more capable of success. I'd rather not lose all respect that I have for myself.

I don't think that every guy who can't get a date is lazy or in denial. Only the ones who choose to blame the rest of the world for their problems.

Yeah, a willingness to walk all over people will help a person to succeed in many areas. But I have trouble seeing how romance would be one of those areas. And, even if it is, those guys are the minority and there are other ways to succeed.

I mean, unless he goes up to a girl and tells her that the other guy has herpes or something, I can't really see how one guy can prevent another from getting a date. Maybe you have some examples?

I agree, I don't understand the stereotype that bikers are bad people. I think it must be an American stereotype, I have known bikers in the UK and they have done very professional jobs. I'm heavily tattooed yet when people see I'm good with children, animals or they get to know me a little better, they trust me more and say I'm a lovely or good person, I think people are more open minded towards people with tattoos or people that like motorbikes in the United Kingdom.

I've noticed that if you are good with kids or animals, it's an instant plus for women, I don't think it's a turn on but it seems to make them more trusting.

you said that you used bad behaviour as a way to get girls, so you are associating as*hole behaviour with successful dating. i don't believe that to be true - it's your assumption and not mine.

here is where you essentially said that women like as*holes:






you can backtrack now but these are your original statements.

a woman can be attracted to a man who happens to have jerkish qualities, but i do not think a woman would be attracted to the jerksih qualities themselves. they are more likely attracted to the man IN SPITE OF those characteristics.

confidence can mask assholish behaviour the same way it can mask nice behaviour - they are not at all linked. simply saying that women are attracted to confidence (which is true) says absolutely nothing about assholish behaviour. they are not connected.