Am I a Carrot?

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Not really. Screwing around on the second date (though after a movie and dinner does equal the first date) with someone you don't really know wouldn't be that far from prostitution when you think about it.

Same goes for men who do such, of course.

Well it was stated "In a transaction sense".. and in that regard it's correct. It just requires you to view Sex in a Transactional and capitalistic way, as well as to view it that she doesn't "Want" to have sex... which is actually a VERY common idea among a lot of men..

And when you compare that 60 years ago the culturally depicted women expected you to go steady for ages, and then marry her, and then provide a permanant dwelling and a living wage before she would have sex with you.. well you can kind of see how a movie and dinner is letting it go a bit bargain basement then can't you...

As for what century.. I'd much rather be living in that century honestly.. I hate slu*ty people of both genders.. thats how disease spreads.. Sex is for procreation, not recreation, treat it as such.

OR you're taking manipulation and dismissing it away with, "Well, everyone else does it too."

We have condoms to use in this century. They are good for reducing spread of disease.

If you don't want to live in this century then fine.........But you shouldn't be getting bitter at people who do.........nor should you expect any success in dating if you continue to be so reactionary in your thinking. It's not the girl's fault you're afraid of sex, kiddo.

I see.......So you're an equal oportunity slut-shamer?


Fine, you win. Withholding sex or playing hard to get in order to exert some influence in a relationship makes me a bully and a monster.........

According to this thread, I'm apperently also a semi-prostitute/slut and the women I date are roughly the equivalent of cheap whores..........Clearly you're all saints and I humbly thank you for your judgement.

Enjoy your celibacy!

Yes, clearly I'm "Afraid" of sex, rather than just wanting it to actually be meaningful to me with a person I care about. Absolutely, I'm totally afraid of those nasty squicky vaginas, you found me out.

Why shouldn't I get bitter at people who are removing the emotional aspect of sex, the part I find the most important, from the equation entirely. Sex is finite, I'm playing the long game.. I want to find some one who's still going to be with me when we are too old for sex.



Yes, Condoms which specifically say on the box they do not prevent the spread of SOME diseases. Not to mention, you can get STD's from oral sex, and I have NEVER met a man who has used a dental dam when he's gone down on a woman.. EVER. It's something like 1 in 5 young people have an STD of some sort.. You're better off playing russian roulette cause the gun has 6 chambers.

Most people don't compare oral to russian roulette so forgive me for assuming you may have some underlying fear and paranoia about sex.........

For the record, there's nothing wrong with having strong convictions. In general, I admire that a lot. However, I draw the line once that person with strong convictions decides to stare down in judgement and demean people who don't share them (many vegans and anti-abortion groups for instance.) The view that sex is just for procreation went out of vogue over 50 years ago and you shouldn't be getting mad and slut-shaming just because you have a hard time finding a girl outside of a fundemantalist church or mosque that feels the same way as you.

Also, sex is not finite in the slightest. Your sex drive doesn't just go away once you get to a certain age. Old people have lots of sex! If I'm single at 80 I intend to be the Casinova of my retirement community! I'm sure there would be plenty of spry 70 something GGMILFs to romance.

Sex is perfectly fine to have as much as you like once you're in a relationship and are willing to accept the responsibilities for your actions. But people treat it like theres no consequences.. when there are very BIG consequences. You could get sick, you could get pregnant, you could get stuck paying child support, you could get stuck having to decide to have an abortion, so forgive me for not understanding how you can exist and NOT be paranoid about sex.

I don't understand why my analogy with Russian roulette is so problematic for you? If you go out, and have casual sex with some one you don't know the sexual history of, you have a 1 in 5 chance of getting disease. And I don't know about you, but if I got a STD that was incurable, I'd never go out to look for a relationship again, I'd be to afraid of spreading it or being embarrassed by it.

As for finding a woman in a fundamentalist church or mosque.. why would I want some religious fanatic? I just want a girl who has some freakin standards and doesn't pop her legs open for every guy who buys her dinner.

And as for old sex.. yeah if that floats your boat... but I think I'd rather swallow a razorblade.

Don't worry, the entire world has just gone mad.

Hard to believe some health "expert" recommended a sheet of saran-wrap be laid down before performing oral sex on her. For real.

Much like oral sex on a man wearing a condom - completely pointless since you can't feel a damned thing!


The benefit of monogamy...

I don't think the world has gone mad in so much as that the ease with which we can now control our reproductive processes has devalued sexual relations and removed components I feel are actually more important than the actual intercourse.

........and you think it's alright to judge others and deem them slu*ty because they aren't as prudish about it as you are......... Think what you want about sex, but the sanctimoniusness of your position is my only real issue with your argument.

No more than you shouting "prude" to anyone who doesn't quickly boink anything that moves.

For some people (like yourself, it would seem) sex is nothing more than the momentary pleasure of reproductive organs.
For others, sex is a significant part of something much larger and better. Love. Having been around long enough to experience both, I'll never go back to the first option - only the second will truly satisfy.

Mcdonald's vs. 5-star dining.

I have every right to judge whomsoever I wish to judge, just as you're judging me.

You're a slut, I'm a prude, we can't be friends, Oh s**t, whatever shall I do?

I don't need lectures about love. I'm a hopeless romantic and I've been in love 5-6 times at least (hell, I'm in love right now.) But there's no rule that love can't come after the sex part. Most of the time sexual attraction develops first anyway. Sex is just one part of the dating experience and I wouldn't be with someone just for the sex.

Like I've said, I have no issue with people having opinions different than mine but when people start accusing me of being a manipulative bully, a monster and a whore because I have a different viewpoints then them it's hard not to respond. I happen to prefer to date girls that would be dismissed as "radical feminists" by many of the bitter and sexually frustrated men on this board and I take issue with many of the things said about women in this thread and the L&D board in general. Frankly i'm too exhausted to continue with this argument so congratulations on your victory..........

I like dating women who are intelligent and ambitious also, and I don't care about how many partners she's had. I simply don't want to be one of many once me and her are going out, and I'm sick of only being able to find girls who want to have sex, string me along for a few months, and then dump me when something better comes along. That's no different than what Wolfheart did in that other thread, and which we both were justifiably angry about.

I'm sorry that I view casual sex as a risky, and un-interesting past time, but for me I need the love part to come FIRST otherwise I see no reason to have sex with the person. Since, ultimately, I know that even if we take all the precautions.. condoms and the pill.. she could still get pregnant. My last ex was poly cystic and was told by her doctor she likely would never be able to become pregnant and I still used condoms.. but had she somehow become pregnant I loved her so the idea of raising a child with her wasn't terrifying.. Now though I realize how stupid I was to invest that kind of emotional energy in her.. and also realize just how scary her being in charge of a child would have been.

Basically if I can't see myself being with a person for a long time, or see myself starting a family with the person, I don't want to have sex with them, because I know there is ALWAYS a chance of it happening.. and simply put.. I don't want to put a woman in the position where her choices are Abortion or sacrificing her life for a child if she doesn't want it. It doesn't help that deep down I really don't agree with abortion outside of cases of rape or incest or medical reasons.. because I feel it's the ultimate cop out for irresponsibility on the part of one or both partners.