Aspergers and Harems?

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Married people don't have sex. Ask any prostitute!

No but seriously, that's a tremendous slam against marriage. No one's prostituting themselves. A good marriage involves free will and true partnership.

I said "traditional marriage" with a stay-at-home mom, a white picket fence, and boring sex.

What does the man get out of it aside from house cleaning (cheaper to hire a maid) and sex? Exactly. But, then, traditional marriage becomes a bore when you get tired of f*****g the same person over and over again the same boring ways. So that's where short-term prostitutes and jigilos come in.

That does not change the fact that marriage as traditionally conceived in Western society is a form of long-term prostitution.

Last edited by Tyri0n on 19 May 2013, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Where did you say any of that about white picket fence and boring sex? That wasn't in the post I read.

Why did you ask a question and then answer it for me? Lol. I guess one way to make sure you feel you are right is to answer yourself.

Yes you've said multiple times that you find monogamy boring, so I'm not surprised you would think badly of marriage, since most marriages have monogamy as a goal; but to say all traditional marriage is prostitution is just way out there, to me.

Nor have you proven to me that your notion of marriage is either traditional, boring, or Western. It seems rooted in some Playboy magazine from 1950, not today's reality. As for "what does a man get from marriage aside from house cleaning and sex" I thought you had said before that you don't want that from a wife? "That's what a maid is for" you said. So why present that as the definition of marriage (western and traditional or otherwise.)

As someone who has been married a while, I can attest marriage is a lot more complex as well as rewarding, than that description.

I think you're taking this out of context. He wasn't having a go at you or at people in general who are married.

As far as I am aware, he was referring to the historical evolution of marriage in western society. And traditionally - it was a business transaction for thousands of years. That is why he is referring to the traditional model as long term prostitution.

Marriage has certainly started to evolve again in the last few decades. But certainly for many, those original reasons are still strong motivators, where consciously or unconsciously. Many now also choose to marry for love, companionship or other reasons also, certainly much more so than the era he was referring to - which is why it's important to differentiate between historical and modern.

No I didn't take it as having had a go at me or people, but at the 'institution' of marriage, I did, yes, because he basically said so. Calling something prostitution isn't a compliment when many consider marriage a sacrament. That in itself implies the people entering into marriage are shallow and it's a lower form of living.

I don't see marriage as a "business contract" either and I'm not sure why anyone would be stuck in the past if seeking to define marriage or why we'd assume they're referring to that outdated model*, instead of current times which is when we are all alive. At least it wasn't made clear in his post.

Clearly he and I disagree about the definition or reality of marriage, and as someone who is wed, I thought my own opinion had some merit. I also hate to see someone with a strong opinion but who hasn't really proven it, potentially sour all the impressionable young people reading the forums, on something that could bring them a lifetime of happiness.

There is a lot more to marriage than sex and house cleaning; it's also friendship, partnership; in some cases raising a family; and having shared goals, and similar outlooks on main categories like religious beliefs (including lack of if that's the case), world outlook, etc.

It's hurtful to see "marriage is prostitution" so often and presented so strongly it's almost deemed fact. It just isn't true. Maybe for some, but I allowed or that in my reply, trying to be fair.


*ah and now I've been led into going along with that as fact when it isn't. Even when women weren't allowed many job opportunities not all married just to have food and shelter. People really did marry for love and family even then. As for "what do men get out of it besides sex and cleaning" even Tyri0n said the man gets bored with the woman sexually in marriage (not always true either) so why would marriage make sense for any man if he's right? So doesn't that seem to disprove his theory that that is all it's about? If the sex is short lived or not good, why then say it's prostitution and all marriage is about...because no one would marry if that's all they got. They'd simply go to prostitutes and hire a cleaning person. It sounds like a really old chestnut that pimps tell prostitutes, and prostitutes tell clients, to make it seem like neither prostitute nor client is missing anything in avoiding marriage in their life...When they are actually missing a lot in my personal opinion.

Marriage isn't for everyone and I never would say that, but to condemn it wholly, is misguided, in my opinion.

Wow. This thread went from silly nonsense to serious business pretty quick.

Popsicle:

I apologize for sh*****g all over "sacraments" and religion. It's one of my hobbies.



I (and Kjas) both pointed out that I specified "traditional marriage" or marriage as traditionally conceived and still frequently practiced. I did not say anything about your marriage. The statistics I quoted in the other thread specifying that 75% of women would not date an unemployed man while only 20% of men would not date an unemployed woman simply support my contention that the societal expectations of a woman entering into a marriage contract/long-term relationship in hope of marriage in exchange for some amount of material security are not dead, not even in the West, probably even less so in some other countries, like Boo's Lebanon.



So now I feel like Socrates in that I'm "corrupting the youth." Thank you. You make me feel old and wise.



But food and shelter were primary criteria. Even if the women themselves were not fully on board, you better believe their families were -- and often still are. The idea that the man is supposed to be the "breadwinner"/provider is still considered an ideal archetype in Western culture and other cultures by many, many people.

On top of this, society also has a prejudice that women are not supposed to enjoy sex or seek it out but, rather, sex is simply something done to please the man, along with companionship (something prostitutes are also used for traditionally, particularly in a war-time situation) and cooking skillz. What do they get in exchange? Food, protection, and shelter. Not saying this is always true, but this is the traditional idea of marriage in many, many societies. Which is why most feminists think it's a terrible, oppressive institution that hurts women. I would agree but also emphasize how it hurts men too.



More than half of marriages end. Many among the other half stay together for religious reasons or out of a sense of obligation to children or stupid social rules. In my opinion, marriage is a terrible failure for both men and women. It's beneficial in some ways because our society has laws and rules built around marriage as an institution. But aside from this, marriage itself is built on some very sexist stone age ideas. And I stand by my former statement that marriage as traditionally conceived is simply a form of prostitution.

Many feminists would say "what woman in her right mind would ever subject herself to such an outdated, misogynistic institution?" I would respond with "what man would ever subject himself to such an outdated, misandric institution?" Both are correct. The reason people get married is because of blind social indoctrination by traditionalism founded in stone age religions, not self-interest.

Nothing personal Tyri0n, when I read your posts about women, dating and marriage, I get this very bleak and depressed sense from them. I also hear a lot of buzz words popular with guys who are into pickup artist stuff, Asian fetish, who think "feminism ruined Western women" and "the world is sexist against men" - all that type of thing. Nevermind that Feminism's heyday was 50 or 60 years ago. That's two generations ago, at least (depending which age you go by.)

The guys I have discussed this stuff online with in the past - which doesn't happen very often as they have their opinion of women, dating and marriage set in absolute stone - also usually devolve into phrases that I can't even repeat here, extreme pejoratives against womenkind. So this conversation is making me queasy remembering some of that...and I do wonder if that's bubbling under but only kept back by the site rules.

Also, I find it highly frustrating the way you seem to twist words. You said nothing about a definition of "traditional marriage" in the post I had replied to. People don't all have the same definition of "traditional marriage" - your definition seems to be "completely bad and set back in 1950." That isn't how I define marriage and the current trend if anything seems to be that people can all set their own definitions - it's never been freer in recent memory in the USA as far as marital expectations go. For instance many women now go out and have the career, the men stay home and raise the babies and tend house.

I never claimed you said anything about my marriage, so I'm not sure why you went there just now as if I had.

We couldn't be farther apart and I feel you are not really taking in my points, just waiting for a chance to make speeches, (from some 1950s handbook), so I'm done. No hard feelings, just find it pointless to continue with you on anything like this topic. See you in other topics, maybe.

It was not a compliment, nor was it an insult you could take as a compliment. It was meant to ask you to pause a moment and think past your own nose, but it obviously failed.

You obviously do not read many of my posts.

I just posted an argument against traditional marriage being pointless for men and demeaning to women. Don't see what that what that has to do with Asian fetish, PUA, or anti feminists. lol

As before, twisting my words. Please stop posting to me, Tyri0n. I find your posts highly hateful and upsetting.

I find yours to be basically personal attacks unresponsive to the content in mine. Please stop replying to me. You're just acting crazy and confrontational.

Moderators? PLEASE.

Why? Should I report you for harassment?

Probably I was being an idiot all these years...

This graph would be a hilarious discovery if it's accurate and true

You two arent meant to talk to each other from now on.

This implies: no refferences to each other on posts, no privavate messages, no quoting each other...

The next of you to do this will get a weekly suspension and if both of you decide to act on this you ll both have a week off this forum.

If anyone has any doubts this has been done in the past and it wasnt just a weekly suspension after the first time they didnt follow the warning.

Spongy smash!! !

ps: that was a compliment.