Are you content with dying alone and unloved???

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Seigneur
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23 Jan 2007, 9:39 pm

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The natural female body is so attractive in nature that if it doesn't cause a hardon, someone should check their sexual orientation(and sexual function).

Hm, sexy sexy hairy legs and BO... :P



dgd1788
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23 Jan 2007, 9:40 pm

I know that I won't bare to live without a partner.


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Letum
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23 Jan 2007, 10:11 pm

dgd1788 wrote:
I know that I won't bare to live without a partner.



That may be your knee-jerk reaction, but studies on people who have become unable to have any more close personal relationships due to incarceration or illness show that it is very unlikely to actually be the case and your reaction is likely to just the result of the impact bias. :wink:



Space
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23 Jan 2007, 11:51 pm

we all die alone eventually, noone comes with you. Love is pretty hard to define. You could be married and not loved by your spouse. Or you could be loved by your friends, or by god (if you believe in god). How do you know for sure that another person actually loves you?



dgd1788
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23 Jan 2007, 11:59 pm

Letum wrote:
dgd1788 wrote:
I know that I won't bare to live without a partner.



That may be your knee-jerk reaction, but studies on people who have become unable to have any more close personal relationships due to incarceration or illness show that it is very unlikely to actually be the case and your reaction is likely to just the result of the impact bias. :wink:


I don't believe such


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Sophrosyne
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24 Jan 2007, 12:02 am

I am an artist. I will probably die quite early...



Sophrosyne
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24 Jan 2007, 12:02 am

Oops! :oops:



Last edited by Sophrosyne on 24 Jan 2007, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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24 Jan 2007, 1:08 am

Yes, I'm content dying alone and unloved. I mean, I'll be dead, so what's the difference? Besides, I greatly prefer lifelong stability and an even keel to what are known as "relationships". Don't think I'll go as far as getting castrated, but after the misery I've been through because of 'em, the thought has crossed my mind more than once.



Ragtime
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24 Jan 2007, 1:09 am

Starbuline wrote:
You can find better things than love.


Now, THERE'S an understatement.



Letum
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24 Jan 2007, 1:32 am

dgd1788 wrote:
Letum wrote:
dgd1788 wrote:
I know that I won't bare to live without a partner.



That may be your knee-jerk reaction, but studies on people who have become unable to have any more close personal relationships due to incarceration or illness show that it is very unlikely to actually be the case and your reaction is likely to just the result of the impact bias. :wink:


I don't believe such


...on what grounds?



Quest_techie
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24 Jan 2007, 1:55 am

Unknown wrote:
I am content with dying alone and unloved.

Are you???


content, no, would I cope? yes

my hierarchy of relationship success at death is


alone and unloved, alone but loved, with friends, celibate and coupled, celibate and married, married and physicaly intimate

my continuum, I figure I'll land around celibate and coupled at best, there are negative values below alone and unloved, but they are below cope <with someone and unloved, I couldn't cope with that fortunatly that's not something you have to cope with unless you put yourself there>

there are probably more points on the continuum, but those are the ones I can think of off the top <all the variations obviously are on there>


Letum wrote:
Am I content to die alone?

Humans are unique in the way that they can simulate and predict what will make them happy on a conscious level.
For example, even with out actually trying it we know that Steak and ice-cream will not taste nice together. This is the brains experience simulator at work.

The problem is that the simulator has a critical flaw called the "impact bias".
If I asked you if you would be happier if you:
A) lost both legs in a accident
B) won £10,000,000

you would probably chose "B". However you would be wrong!
There is a lot of data collected on groups like this and when they are asked how happy they are, after their big cash win or loss of both legs, both groups a equally happy with their lives!
This is the "Impact bias": the tendency for people to vastly over estimate the intensity and duration with which any event will impact upon them.
This effect occurs in relationships, jobs, illness, winning competitions or elections etc etc. In fact, it occurs in almost everything that can effect us.

A study in 2004 concluded that any major injury, with a few exceptions, has no impact on overall happiness with in 4 weeks. Even loss of limbs.

This is because happiness can be synthesized. It's a kind of psychological immune system and everyone has it. You can see examples of this everywhere.
For example:
A few years ago a 78 year old man was released from prison after being found innocent of the crime he had been locked away in his 20s.
Whilst in prison all his former friends and family from his youth had died, or where in old persons homes. Upon release he was interviewed by members of the press. When asked how his experience had been, her replied "I don't regret anything about my life, it was a glorious experiance."
Another example is Harry.S.Langerman. In 1949 Harry saw one of the first ever burger stands in NewYork. He thought it was a fantastic idea and wanted to buy the buisness. He asked his brother, who worked in a bank, for a loan and his brother said "No! no one will eat burgers you idiot!". Someone else bought the business and went on to become the richest man in America. When asked how he felt, Harry replied "I believe it turned out for the best".

There are millions of people just like that who are happy. We can learn the secret of happiness from them.
The secret to a happy life is to lose your chance to become a millionaire and spend all your life in prison.

Now you are all probably saying "YER RIGHT!" :roll: and rolling your eyes . This is because when people synthesize happiness other people say "YER RIGHT! :roll: you never really wanted the job" or "YER RIGHT! :roll: you didn't really like her". People think that synthetic happiness is of a lower quality than natural happiness. Natural happiness is when we get what we want; synthetic happiness is what we make when we don't get what we want. Everyone thinks that the happiness from getting what you want is bigger, but as studies show; that's not true.
So why do we think synthetic happiness is inferior? The answer is simple: if people knew that they could be just as happy if they didn't get what they want, the economy would break down. A supermarket full of Buddhist monks would never sell anything because they would not want things enough.

The fact is that synthetic happiness is just as real and just as enduring as natural happiness and this can be proves scientifically. One proof is the "free choice parodime":

6 objects are brought in and the subject ranks them according to how much they like them.
They are then given a choice of two that they don't like to take home.
After 6 weeks they are shown all 6 objects and asked to rank them again.
In every case they rank the item they own higher than they did before. This is because they have synthesized happiness about that item.
Now you might say "YER RIGHT! :roll: " that's just a case of sour grapes, they don't really like the objects more". However the experiment was repeated with patients that had Anterograde Amnesia i.e. they could not make new memories. They could not remember that they did not get the painting they wanted and they cant remember which painting they own, but the results where still the same! They still like the painting that the don't know they own and they don't know they chose more! They are synthasising happiness and "YER RIGHT! :roll: " is not the right response.

That 78 year old man who was near death after a lifetime of wrongful imprisonment was genuinely happy. "YER RIGHT! :roll: " is not the right response.

Some people synthesize happiness more than others, but all of us can. We all make happiness our selves. Without trying we make the one thing that most of us spend all our lives chasing.

So, Am I content to die alone?

Yes! it may sound bad now, but that's just the "impact bias" at work, but when it comes to it comes down to the moment almost all people would be just as content dieing alone. :D


Sorry about length!


I'd still choose B, I've done enough medical stuff to know that, actually, yes, I do quite well with it, but I know how I'd spend 10,000,000 pounds, and I also know that people in that tax bracket are statistically happier than people in my tax bracket, plus I'd be able to go to magic mountain AND great america AND knotts berry farm every month the rest of this year, seriously, you have no idea how happy theme parks make me



biostructure
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24 Jan 2007, 2:21 am

Since there is no way to directly measure happiness, and thus to compare the happiness of two different people, I have a hard time believing any of these experiments about "who is happier". Unless you can invent a time machine, or some type of quantum superposition device, you can't have the same person live two different lives and compare his or her happiness after having lived each of them.

However, the experiment where people assigned more value to the object they had chosen before seems indicative of a real psychological phenomenon. As someone who is interested in biochemistry, that makes me want to know how that change in happiness is produced, and maybe be able to design a drug to automatically do the same thing.

While I definitely don't think that using today's recreational drugs is immoral, I do believe that despite their euphoriant effects, they alone (as opposed to by how they change your perspective) do not actually make you permanently happier. If you could make them so that they raise that overall level of happiness that people seem to assign to anything regardless (and which I assume is set genetically), that would make a great-selling recreational drug. Of course, I would like a libertarian society with an aloof, unintrusive government in which to use that substance if I invented it.



almarzhm
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24 Jan 2007, 2:57 am

Letum:

a very interesting idea u have.... let me ask you this.. what is depression then ? how does it fit your explanation ?



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24 Jan 2007, 4:15 am

biostructure wrote:
Since there is no way to directly measure happiness


For the purpose of most experiments happiness is mesured in the same way as stomache ache. i.e. you ask the subject if they have it and how bad/good it is. Usualy on a scale of 1-10. When you have large enough test groups you get a accurate average.

almarzhm wrote:
Letum:

a very interesting idea u have.... let me ask you this.. what is depression then ? how does it fit your explanation ?



Its not my idea. My post was based on some ongoing recherche by economists, philosophers and psychologists; most notably, but not exclusively at Harvard. This field of study dates back more than 50 years.

Usually depression is a result of either chemical imbalances and reoccurring negative thoughts. These states are usually brought about by "psychologically negative traits".

Its important to know the difference between what we view as "bad events" and "psychologically negative traits".

Something we view as a "Bad event" is dieing alone or losing a arm in a car accident. Whilst the "impact bias" may give you a temporary low feeling because you think your life will be worse with one arm, the body's emotional immune system soon kicks in and very quickly you are as happy as most of the population.

A "psychologically negative trait" is a lack of "self worth" or not having a feeling of purpose. The body's emotional immune system has a much harder time dealing with these and, unless they are resolved, depression quickly sets in.

"bad events" do not produce significant "psychologically negative traits". Losing a arm does not usually decrease "self worth".
"good events" do not produce significant "psychologically positive traits" either. A lottery winner who lacked a feeling of purpose will not gain one after winning the lottery.

So what does cause the appearance of "psychologically negative traits"?
Genetic deposition often plays a role, in some cases physical brain trauma can be a cause, but the biggest cause is people reading into events and changing they way they view them selves because of it.

For example, if some one calls you a idiot and if they do it often enough for you to believe them, then you will change the way you view you self and you will view your self as a idiot. Viewing your self as a idiot is a negative psychologically trait.
If you already have the positive psychological trait of thinking that you are clever enough then being called a idiot once will not change your view of your self. Your positive psychological traits shield you against psychologically negative events. The roots of depression often stem from childhood because as a child you have not yet had enough psychologically positive events to give you psychologically positive traits to shield you from the psychologically negative events giving you psychologically negative traits. (what a mouth full!)

In short: my first post fits in with depression because depression is not caused by what we view as "bad events" (like dieing alone or losing a arm). Depression is caused by "psychologically negative traits" that result in chemical imbalances in the brain and reoccurring negative thoughts.



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24 Jan 2007, 10:36 am

I would say so. If I were to grow old and die alone, than I would have the freedom to do what I want, whenever I wish. I could go for long walks. I could indulge with my hobbies, obsessions and interests. I could go to a party or stay home, whenever I wished to do so. I could read up on and take on many hobbies. I wouldn't have to worry about pain and rejection. I could sleep in as late as I wish, or go to bed as early as I need to. I could spend my life with the person who understands me the most. Me. I did have a crush on someone in college. He appeared to be nice, at first. He seemed to have a sweet nature to him. He turned out to be a real jerk. That's turned me off of men, forever. It's been thirteen years since that happened. Now a days, I just march through life with my head up, and my shoulders straight. I'll die alone, so it only seems logical.



mingusman
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24 Jan 2007, 11:49 am

Dear message sender,

Perhaps I should have checked out the "About Everything" question first for answers. As a 36 year old Aspie (diagnosed at 33) my stand on your question is as follows. Having made numerous attempts at finding a girlfriend kind, smart, funny, loving, generous, & people-friendly. So far nothing. I have begun to confess to friends and even acquaintances that I am an Aspie. The little I have learned about my condition reveals that relationships are hard enough to understand for a non-Aspie, only more so for an Aspie. I have not yet been in a relationship more than friends with a woman though in a lifetime of being single, lonely, & male I keep hoping. I'd almost be content to not risk being hurt again by not trying ever again. If women would only act like they just want to be platonic friends (which always to be the case when put to the test) I'd be O.K. It's only when the flirting has happened after a long period of platonic friendship after I accepted that the desire was all mine. She-in this fortunately few cases- flirted too well. The way I've always wanted from a woman on a date. Only then did I learn the hard way she too was only having fun & was committed already. There's nothing I can do to control anybody else's behavior. How can I cope in not feeling so hurt & confused in the future?

mingusman (Wausau, WI)