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There is no spontaneous relationship

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The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Dec 2013, 5:23 pm

leafplant wrote:
I only want to add that in my recent experience (as an 'older woman'), it seems that very young men tend to have much healthier attitudes towards relationships and life in general - but this is probably because life hasn't screwed them over as much as the older guys. Of course, the sample size I have to work with are all somewhat popular NT guys, so not sure how this is helping, other than to say that age doesn't appear to have made any men I know wiser, just more bitter and difficult to deal with.


By definition, you are being sexist.



The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Dec 2013, 5:24 pm

aspiemike wrote:
smudge wrote:

Do men do this even if you give them lots of space anyway?

And, how does a woman tell the difference between a man who really does need space, and a man who's disinterested?


I do it, and I have told my girl not to take it personally. If all I do is spend time with a girl, I get irritbale. I start to lose my sense of masculinity.

Men like to solve their problems on their own. So usually the man will need space to sort something out. He won't want to talk about it. A lady pushing the man to talk when he has a problem that needs to solve will likely result in an angry response. Smart women know to let the man have his space to solve his problems. The man will come back when he solves his problem. On average, the man will take a day or two for this. He would likely drop you a line to open up the dialog to talk again and try and continue the intimate relationship.

Why women dont understand this is that when they tell the man they need space, it's an indicator that they are thinking of ending the relationship. So women panic when they hear the man say "I need some space to solve a problem." A man can calm her worrying mind by assuring her with words like "I will get back to you later. Your friends said they wanted to take you out shopping, go enjoy yourself." That there should realistically be a win-win. But misunderstandings can and will happen.

A smart man will know that their girl likes to talk about problems. A smart man will only give advice when the girl asks for it. Otherwise, the girl will think they guy is not listening to her. Most girls I met, they want to be heard and understood, not have their problems fixed unless they ask for that help.

Edit: Try not being insulted when I say "smart women." I should have said that people either learn this, or they don't. Same goes with "smart men"


You are being sexist too.



The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Dec 2013, 5:25 pm

billiscool wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/5042640/Women-more-attracted-to-men-in-expensive-cars.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hea ... en-shallow
''So, what did the researchers find? The young women were more likely to give their phone number to a young man who appeared to have more money and elevated status''In the high-status car condition, the confederates could boast getting a young woman's phone number 23.3% of the time. By contrast, the middle-status car condition and the low-status car condition saw 12.8% and 7.8% rates of compliance with the phone number request, respectively. These findings suggest that in real-life situations, women are inclined to give high-status men more of a chance.''


All media, researchers and science are sexist.



semota
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20 Dec 2013, 5:43 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What I said in the other thread
If a zoologist is describing the behavioral difference between lions and lionesses, that doesn't mean he/she believes lions are more superior than lionesses or vice-versa, she/he's just stating observations. Does this mean the zoologist is encouraging lions to form harems?

Should the zoologist lie and be blind enough and say false things like "oh...lionesses form harems, just like lions" in order to not be accused of something?

Sometimes political correctness hits crazy levels here.


"I call it the golden trio: job, place and car, a lot of aspie males fail to attract females because they lack those basics."

That was the original statement. It is not an observation but a generalization from a small number of cases. Also, it's pretty unwarranted. I happen to know a large number of aspie guys in my country. There are quite few who are financially successful but cannot find a girlfriend, and there also quite a few who don't own a flat or a car but are in a stable relationship.
I think communication skills and other personality traits could be much more important.




Quote:
Quote:
and according to your definition, "loser" means those people who cannot provide women with certain material goods (car, house, a huge salary), so that's pretty much the same thing.

also, you've just called a huge number of forum members a loser


Correction: Who cannot provide themselves, not who cannot provide women.


not owning a flat and a car doesn't mean that you cannot provide yourself.



The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Dec 2013, 5:54 pm

semota wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What I said in the other thread
If a zoologist is describing the behavioral difference between lions and lionesses, that doesn't mean he/she believes lions are more superior than lionesses or vice-versa, she/he's just stating observations. Does this mean the zoologist is encouraging lions to form harems?

Should the zoologist lie and be blind enough and say false things like "oh...lionesses form harems, just like lions" in order to not be accused of something?

Sometimes political correctness hits crazy levels here.


"I call it the golden trio: job, place and car, a lot of aspie males fail to attract females because they lack those basics."

That was the original statement. It is not an observation but a generalization from a small number of cases. Also, it's pretty unwarranted. I happen to know a large number of aspie guys in my country. There are quite few who are financially successful but cannot find a girlfriend, and there also quite a few who don't own a flat or a car but are in a stable relationship.
I think communication skills and other personality traits could be much more important.




Quote:
Quote:
and according to your definition, "loser" means those people who cannot provide women with certain material goods (car, house, a huge salary), so that's pretty much the same thing.

also, you've just called a huge number of forum members a loser


Correction: Who cannot provide themselves, not who cannot provide women.


not owning a flat and a car doesn't mean that you cannot provide yourself.



I didn't deny the importance of the communication skills, hence why the aspie guys need to compensate elsewhere.

"not owning a flat and a car doesn't mean that you cannot provide yourself "

Not always, but they are often a manifestation that you can.



Eureka13
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20 Dec 2013, 5:59 pm

It may be true that average women are more initially attracted to men who appear to be successful.

But who wants an average woman? Wouldn't you rather have an exceptional woman who loves you for WHO you are, not WHAT you are?



leafplant
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20 Dec 2013, 6:16 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
leafplant wrote:
I only want to add that in my recent experience (as an 'older woman'), it seems that very young men tend to have much healthier attitudes towards relationships and life in general - but this is probably because life hasn't screwed them over as much as the older guys. Of course, the sample size I have to work with are all somewhat popular NT guys, so not sure how this is helping, other than to say that age doesn't appear to have made any men I know wiser, just more bitter and difficult to deal with.


By definition, you are being sexist.



No I am not because I state straight away that what follows is an expression of my own experience and not a blanket statement of fact about how things are for everyone.

Are you being contrary or stupid?



leafplant
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20 Dec 2013, 6:22 pm

billiscool wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/5042640/Women-more-attracted-to-men-in-expensive-cars.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hea ... en-shallow
''So, what did the researchers find? The young women were more likely to give their phone number to a young man who appeared to have more money and elevated status''In the high-status car condition, the confederates could boast getting a young woman's phone number 23.3% of the time. By contrast, the middle-status car condition and the low-status car condition saw 12.8% and 7.8% rates of compliance with the phone number request, respectively. These findings suggest that in real-life situations, women are inclined to give high-status men more of a chance.''



relationships are complex, and they only looked at one single indicator in isolation. Giving someone a phone number does not mean having sex with them or relationship or marriage. It just means that those women had particular standards that the researchers were able to zero into for their purpose.

If you stopped women in London, only the very posh ones would care about the car - most people who live in London find it pointless to own a car.



leafplant
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20 Dec 2013, 6:25 pm

aspiemike wrote:

Why women dont understand this is that when they tell the man they need space, it's an indicator that they are thinking of ending the relationship.


This would explain why all of my exes were so clingy. I didn't know I was likely an Aspie so wouldn't have known to point out that me needing space was not an indicator that I was bored of them and wanted to end the relationship. In fact, I actually did think I was bored and wanted to end the relationship. But maybe I am just like a guy and if I think about it like a guy maybe I can have a relationship after all - with a guy who is ok with a woman behaving like a guy...

yeah..I can see this working out really well :roll:



jrjones9933
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20 Dec 2013, 6:31 pm

People don't take relationship criteria in isolation. They average them.

Job-seekers whose letters of recommendation included only positive indicators received more calls for interviews than those whose letters of recommendation included both positives and negatives. If you have only the same positives, people want to learn more; if you also have negatives, people perceive you less favorably. HR managers, at least, average criteria.



aspiemike
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20 Dec 2013, 7:09 pm

leafplant wrote:
aspiemike wrote:

Why women dont understand this is that when they tell the man they need space, it's an indicator that they are thinking of ending the relationship.


This would explain why all of my exes were so clingy. I didn't know I was likely an Aspie so wouldn't have known to point out that me needing space was not an indicator that I was bored of them and wanted to end the relationship. In fact, I actually did think I was bored and wanted to end the relationship. But maybe I am just like a guy and if I think about it like a guy maybe I can have a relationship after all - with a guy who is ok with a woman behaving like a guy...

yeah..I can see this working out really well :roll:


So.. you dated men who were feminine, and you were the masculine one? I'm not quite sure how to interpret what you said.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 88 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


semota
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20 Dec 2013, 7:18 pm

I think that the problem is that whilst we aspies take pride in being independent thinkers, most of us takes over the mainstream criteria for attractiveness without questioning. Instead of being proud to be an aspie, we measure ourselves with the mainstream criteria -- the criteria defined by the neurotypical majority. We apply the mainstream criteria for success, the mainstream criteria for attractiveness etc. and we punish ourselves if we fail to conform to these criteria. In essence, we don't think about ourselves as aspies but as "defective NTs".

The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

What's more, these aspie guys often complain that these conventionally attractive girls reject them because they're so shallow and cannot see their "hidden depths". I think that going for the conventionally attractive and rejecting the girls with with less "mainstream" looks and behavior is as shallow as rejecting a guy because of his geeky appearance and behaviour. (This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)

Also, I think that those aspies who are OK with the fact that they are aspies (and don't treat themselves as "defective NTs") have no problem with dating aspies either. And they have no problems with the aspie traits either.



Last edited by semota on 20 Dec 2013, 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

billiscool
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20 Dec 2013, 7:33 pm

semota wrote:
Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.


b.s,I've tried going after geeky/ugly/unattractive girls,and no success.
I knew this one geeky,ugly lady,who I never use a pua line,and
she's completely ignore me,even after we got alone with,for
a couple month.she's just started ignoring me,and acts
rude towards me.

I have other ugly women,that treated me like crap,I
never use pua lines on them

I get along with the average and pretty girls(as long
as I don't use pua lines)better than the geeky,ugly girls.



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20 Dec 2013, 8:37 pm

semota wrote:
"I call it the golden trio: job, place and car, a lot of aspie males fail to attract females because they lack those basics."

That was the original statement. It is not an observation but a generalization from a small number of cases.

If that is all Boo has ever experienced, then his conclusion is not sexist. It might not be accurate, but it isn't sexist.



The_Face_of_Boo
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21 Dec 2013, 2:01 am

semota wrote:
I think that the problem is that whilst we aspies take pride in being independent thinkers, most of us takes over the mainstream criteria for attractiveness without questioning. Instead of being proud to be an aspie, we measure ourselves with the mainstream criteria -- the criteria defined by the neurotypical majority. We apply the mainstream criteria for success, the mainstream criteria for attractiveness etc. and we punish ourselves if we fail to conform to these criteria. In essence, we don't think about ourselves as aspies but as "defective NTs".

The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

What's more, these aspie guys often complain that these conventionally attractive girls reject them because they're so shallow and cannot see their "hidden depths". I think that going for the conventionally attractive and rejecting the girls with with less "mainstream" looks and behavior is as shallow as rejecting a guy because of his geeky appearance and behaviour. (This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)

Also, I think that those aspies who are OK with the fact that they are aspies (and don't treat themselves as "defective NTs") have no problem with dating aspies either. And they have no problems with the aspie traits either.


You are spitting out a lot of sexism; implying that aspie guys like this and do that.

:roll: Now I understand your projections; usually those who quickly judge of some ill-behavior/thinking are the ones who have most of this ill behavior.



semota
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21 Dec 2013, 12:27 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
semota wrote:
I think that the problem is that whilst we aspies take pride in being independent thinkers, most of us takes over the mainstream criteria for attractiveness without questioning. Instead of being proud to be an aspie, we measure ourselves with the mainstream criteria -- the criteria defined by the neurotypical majority. We apply the mainstream criteria for success, the mainstream criteria for attractiveness etc. and we punish ourselves if we fail to conform to these criteria. In essence, we don't think about ourselves as aspies but as "defective NTs".

The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

What's more, these aspie guys often complain that these conventionally attractive girls reject them because they're so shallow and cannot see their "hidden depths". I think that going for the conventionally attractive and rejecting the girls with with less "mainstream" looks and behavior is as shallow as rejecting a guy because of his geeky appearance and behaviour. (This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)

Also, I think that those aspies who are OK with the fact that they are aspies (and don't treat themselves as "defective NTs") have no problem with dating aspies either. And they have no problems with the aspie traits either.


You are spitting out a lot of sexism; implying that aspie guys like this and do that.

:roll: Now I understand your projections; usually those who quickly judge of some ill-behavior/thinking are the ones who have most of this ill behavior.


I can see that you're hurt and you're desperately trying to "hit back" somehow.

I didn't write that aspie guys in general do this or that. I wrote about a certain behaviour which is quite common, but I didn't generalize it to all of the aspie guys. I also had a remark "(This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)" which means that my statement is too for a significant numer of aspie girls as well.

In fact, most aspie guys I know personally are not like that -- they don't go for the conventionally attractive girls, but they have their own system of criteria. However, WP is full of topics and comments a la "OMG I'm such a nice guy but conventionally attractive hotties don't pay attention to me".