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The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jan 2014, 6:18 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

If you were only interested in talking, you should have stated your intentions from the beginning, rather than leading people on.


Excuse me, how exactly have I been leading people on???????????

Yeah, what?

Wow, thinking of all these people I've met in my life and interacted with who I didn't say "I do not want to have sex with you" to...I'm such an as*hole.

Wait, they never said it to me either...does EVERYONE I meet want to have sex with me? Wow!


I don't want to have sex with you.



Who_Am_I
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12 Jan 2014, 6:46 am

Kurgan wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
HikariKun wrote:
I know that's a generalization, but it's how I feel a lot of the time. Even the nice sensitive type guys at my college all seem to be guided by their desire for sex. Either that or it's just me not understanding the neurotypical process. I'll try to start a decent conversation with a guy, and it goes one of two ways. The first way is they'll casually nod along to anything I say and then try to touch me, or they'll initiate a conversation with me and get put off by my response. I'm not just interested in getting laid, I want real conversation and someone who "gets" me. The one guy who seems to have the patience for me doesn't actually flirt, which is a shame because he is one of the only guy's I would allow to do it.
I feel like I'm in a different world then everyone else :cry: I feel like I live in a world where everyone is out for themselves and no one has the kind of kindness that you see in the corny movies.


If all guys are this and that, then the only common denominator is you.


Nope, the common denominator really is that guys primarily just want sex. I have noticed that soo many times in my life. At first, when people meet me/come across me, the guys will all be falling over themselves to talk to me. When it becomes clear I am not going to put out, suddenly nobody is interested in chatting any more. It's tragic how reliably this occurs.


Almost all girls I know are in steady relationships by the time they hit their early 20's, so this simply isn't true. If women didn't "require" a lot of chatting, mind-games and all that before sex, the problem you mentioned could be solved generations ago.


Aghhh you just proved my point. The steady relationship for men = regular access to sex on demand (more or less). You are admitting that the only reason to chat to a woman is to get her to have sex with you!


That depends; there are plenty of women I enjoy talking to. Others, I stopped talking to after I slept with them, but only because they started using me as some kind of emotional tampon to listen to their BS 3-4 days per month when nobody else could take their crap anymore.

Be glad you're getting offers for sex without having to talk, spend money, watch sappy movies or do anything to get it.


You mean they actually wanted you to listen to them, which is something that friends normally do, 3 OR 4 DAYS A MONTH? What awful, high-maintenance people!


Friends exchange programming tips, workout together, watch movies together, play video games together and so on. If someone dumps all of their problems onto you for 3–4 times per month, but is completely oblivious to your existence otherwise, then he/she is using you.


I see. I would agree that that is using you.


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leafplant
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12 Jan 2014, 8:02 am

Deuterium wrote:
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I bet you would see me as someone not worth bothering with just based on those two statements. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. I would be apprehensive getting to know you not for either of those reasons, but because I already feel like you are trying to fit me into a preconceived stereotype which, as I have just explained, is something I get quite irritated at having to 'fight against' in order to feel accepted for who I am.
leafplant wrote:
Nope, the common denominator really is that guys primarily just want sex.
leafplant wrote:
The steady relationship for men = regular access to sex on demand (more or less).

I do not primarily want sex. I do not consider a steady relationship one that allows regular access to sex. Part of why I was just rejected was because I did not 'put out' as was desired of me; by a female, no less. I could have had sex at any moment I desired at one point; the offer was very blatantly 'on the table'. But chose not to because I was confused and not feeling proper emotional attachment, meaning I also did not feel proper sexual attraction (refer to my first post for that explanation). I am entirely capable of being friends with someone without sexual attraction nor significant emotional attraction (I would consider that a friend does need a minimal degree of emotional attraction, as I consider friends as people I care for).

If you have no intent to accept that there are people with penises (i.e. men, males, guys, or any other such terms) who, in the context of relationship desires, are capable of fundamentally desiring emotional connection and only viewing intimate contact as an additional way to communicate that emotional connection (but not a required one), then I would have no intent to talk with you because you have already admitted that you refuse to accept who I am, even if that particular aspect would not apply to you as we wouldn't be pursuing a relationship to begin with.


Eh, sorry to have not explicitly stated that you are clearly an exception to the rule, but you have said as much yourself. But as to stereotyping / trying to fit people into boxes; the thing is, I very likely have Aspergers, my brain always looks for patterns and tries to categorise and classify everything (and everyone) so can't really help that. I do try and give each individual I interact with as unbiased chance to show who they are as I possibly can, but it's difficult to not do any filtering at all. For example, if I am talking to someone who is clearly a male, I will unconsciously disregard any possible conversation starters on make up and other 'girly' topics. If I didn't do this, it would be impossible to interact with anyone.

Perhaps this is how many (note, I did not say most or all) male brains function, (I have certainly been told this is true by some friends/exes) they go around automatically sorting women out into "would have sex with" and "wouldn't have sex with" categories before they think anything else about them. The emotional connection isn't even the issue at this stage, it's just how a person assesses other people. Equally, in the NT world at least, men will assess other men for physical and status indicators that allow them to position themselves against that other man in terms of accepted social hierarchy rules. Unless they are gay, in which case, we go back to sexual appeal being the first assessment criteria.

This has been my observed experience. Of course there are exceptions, there are always exceptions to everything, but to not talk in generalisations when talking in general is paradoxical not to mention impossible.



klausnrooster
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12 Jan 2014, 5:01 pm

HikariKun wrote:
... Even the nice sensitive type guys at my college all seem to be guided by their desire for sex. ... I feel like I live in a world where everyone is out for themselves and no one has the kind of kindness that you see in the corny movies.

I'll just leave this here. Note such a subreddit exists and read the content. This is a good thread, if more helpful for guys to avoid being self-pitying manipulators.
www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/lmu0d/for_newbies_nice_guy_syndrome_what_it_is_and_why
HikariKun, you have a keen mind. As someone else said, set the bar high. Don't do anything you aren't 100% into. Build a relationship around shared values and shared appreciation(s). Finish college, and find a better environment. Some quality guys will still be available.



Deuterium
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12 Jan 2014, 9:11 pm

leafplant wrote:
Eh, sorry to have not explicitly stated that you are clearly an exception to the rule, but you have said as much yourself. ... Of course there are exceptions, there are always exceptions to everything, but to not talk in generalisations when talking in general is paradoxical not to mention impossible.

My apology; I have encountered people before who have refused to accept exceptions to general constructs, including telling me that I am lying about a particular position I have on a topic, claiming I am simply deluding myself (anything other than recognizing that as a legitimate and real position). I was not sure if you were one of these people and were claiming something similar to 'all men only want sex no matter what they say' due to the previously quoted statements.

I do certainly agree that a large portion of men, and humans in general, do appear to have sex as the core interest, but since I am one of the exceptions (however few we are) I have a personal vested interest in making sure that people do understand that not everyone fits into this mode of thinking (even when it may sometimes appear that everyone does), when this type of topic arises. I am very sensitive to when people project their own thoughts of how I must think or act onto me, particularly when it is outright incorrect, so this subject probably hits that nerve without much effort.



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13 Jan 2014, 2:30 am

Sex is just icing on the cake. What I really want is a cuddle buddy. I want physical intimacy, just not the kind everybody assumes I want. When I am talking to a pretty girl, I don't really find conversations all that interesting, because all I am thinking about is kissing and hugging her.



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13 Jan 2014, 2:34 am

Ii won't lie I want sex passion fire but I also want a companion who I can relate and talk with and share life with


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FrankiDelano
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13 Jan 2014, 2:50 am

I think a good way to try and some up what all-yall just said: "We all lust for love."



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13 Jan 2014, 3:08 am

Image



Toy_Soldier
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13 Jan 2014, 8:33 am

Did we ever decide btw, what the one thing was?

Sex ?
To borrow your power tools ?
Dinner ?
A wide screen TV ?
A restoreable example of their first car ?



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jan 2014, 8:37 am

Quote:
Perhaps this is how many (note, I did not say most or all) male brains function, (I have certainly been told this is true by some friends/exes) they go around automatically sorting women out into "would have sex with" and "wouldn't have sex with" categories before they think anything else about them. The emotional connection isn't even the issue at this stage, it's just how a person assesses other people. Equally, in the NT world at least, men will assess other men for physical and status indicators that allow them to position themselves against that other man in terms of accepted social hierarchy rules. Unless they are gay, in which case, we go back to sexual appeal being the first assessment criteria.


This how many female brains functions too but they use more gentle term like "attractive" and "not attractive".



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13 Jan 2014, 9:15 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps this is how many (note, I did not say most or all) male brains function, (I have certainly been told this is true by some friends/exes) they go around automatically sorting women out into "would have sex with" and "wouldn't have sex with" categories before they think anything else about them. The emotional connection isn't even the issue at this stage, it's just how a person assesses other people. Equally, in the NT world at least, men will assess other men for physical and status indicators that allow them to position themselves against that other man in terms of accepted social hierarchy rules. Unless they are gay, in which case, we go back to sexual appeal being the first assessment criteria.


This how many female brains functions too but they use more gentle term like "attractive" and "not attractive".


But the difference in (assumed generalisation) intent is completely different and the whole point. Women (generally speaking) look for a (short/long term) relationship whereas (allegedly) men are looking to get laid and put up with the relationship part of the deal because they have no choice.
There is a massive difference between the two approaches because what we are saying (and luckily we are not entirely correct) is that men view women as objects, whereas women view men as people. I think that's the issue being discussed here.



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jan 2014, 10:06 am

leafplant wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps this is how many (note, I did not say most or all) male brains function, (I have certainly been told this is true by some friends/exes) they go around automatically sorting women out into "would have sex with" and "wouldn't have sex with" categories before they think anything else about them. The emotional connection isn't even the issue at this stage, it's just how a person assesses other people. Equally, in the NT world at least, men will assess other men for physical and status indicators that allow them to position themselves against that other man in terms of accepted social hierarchy rules. Unless they are gay, in which case, we go back to sexual appeal being the first assessment criteria.


This how many female brains functions too but they use more gentle term like "attractive" and "not attractive".


But the difference in (assumed generalisation) intent is completely different and the whole point. Women (generally speaking) look for a (short/long term) relationship whereas (allegedly) men are looking to get laid and put up with the relationship part of the deal because they have no choice.
There is a massive difference between the two approaches because what we are saying (and luckily we are not entirely correct) is that men view women as objects, whereas women view men as people. I think that's the issue being discussed here.


If we are gonna go extremely bitter, based on my obeservation: men see women as sex objects, women see men as money objects.



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13 Jan 2014, 12:10 pm

I think the whole idea here begins from a skewed (flawed) position. Like in war saying our side is the good guys and the other side is the bad guys.

Despite civilization, modernism, theologies, etc, we are still apparently just the most intelligent form of mammal, and have basic instincts as well as learned behaviors. But in this mix there are other basic motivations and driving impulses besides sex, and the individualism noteworthy in the human species and well as the great variety of environmental/experiencial factors makes for even more variety in drives and motives.

Some seek nurturing, some seek protection, some seek companionship, some seek solitude, some seek family, are just a few of the possibilities and we are not even getting to sex or the more twisted motives possible.

So I don't think it is even possible to say males or females only have one and the same thing on the mind. But if pressed to give the most correct answer, it has not yet been mentioned I believe, and would say the most common thing foremost in both men and women's minds is themselves.



leafplant
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13 Jan 2014, 1:07 pm

Well Boo and Toy Soldier - those are fine points - for the PPR forum.
Here, we are trying to address OPs issue of being seen as a sex object at college and not knowing how to not be seen as a sex object

Quote:
Even the nice sensitive type guys at my college all seem to be guided by their desire for sex. ...I'm not just interested in getting laid, I want real conversation and someone who "gets" me.


We are talking college kids here. It's not impossible that she can meet a guy who fits her criteria, but let's be honest, most will want mostly sex if not only sex. He who claims differently is a barefaced liar :P



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13 Jan 2014, 2:32 pm

leafplant wrote:
Well Boo and Toy Soldier - those are fine points - for the PPR forum.
Here, we are trying to address OPs issue of being seen as a sex object at college and not knowing how to not be seen as a sex object

Quote:
Even the nice sensitive type guys at my college all seem to be guided by their desire for sex. ...I'm not just interested in getting laid, I want real conversation and someone who "gets" me.


We are talking college kids here. It's not impossible that she can meet a guy who fits her criteria, but let's be honest, most will want mostly sex if not only sex. He who claims differently is a barefaced liar :P


I take your point, but consider that the group in question, 'college guys' may be misleading. Does it really really mean college guys who are agressively persuing the girls? What percentage is that of the total male student population at the school, including shy, not agressive, not interested guys, etc ?

Additionally, what about maturity differential (if you accept it exsists)? High School girls often date college aged guys, and college girls often date post grad aged guys.