The Cure for Nice Guy Syndrome

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not too many real nice guys left out there anymore, ever since the term became a synonym for doormat

I don't believe you describing a nice guy in your first paragraph, the nice guy has ZERO qualms with standing in the fire, he has zero issues with being denied sex, or material property, he can't feel entitled because a want of possessions, be it a woman's heart of material things was never in his heart in the first place that's why it takes awhile for him to finish, life wasn't about climbing the ladder, it was about being good (and I mention a woman's heart because real love doesn't want to posses another, but preserve their liberty).

Well just because your grand-dad didn't complain doesn't mean he didn't hurt, even if he didn't yell. The thing about most males is that their work and ability to provide eventually defines who they are, but a good father can still be a good father in poverty because goodness isn't measured in wealth or in confidence -- some of the traits you list come well before power, and are in fact, better than power. If his work suffered, and he was denied money, he would still make a good grand-dad I would bet, because the traits that make a good father is more inclined towards goodness, which gives no respect to power.

But I don't think the world will gain much if all the nice guys would shut up and put up. In fact i feel very compelled to express my opinion on this because I'm afraid that nice guys will lose something that's much better than function if they changed because the world didn't like them.

Regarding yourself -- what happens when you grow old and your mind becomes feeble again? Does that mean the love from the person you've found goes away? That's the thing about loving power, people should be loved in weakness because they are people, not because they're strong or independent, both of those things are going away, but if you love someone because they're good, that means the love will always be preserved even in their ruin. A shy young male with low self-esteem is just as worthy of a woman's love, as a shy young female with low self-esteem.

The thing about sex is that it's going away as we age, which is why people frantically turn to medicaiton to fix that, if there was love outside of it, then it wouldn't define the relationship, thus there wouldn't be any worry when it ends. Sex should have context, but it shouldn't define the relationship, withholding sex will brings the truth to light, but if a male really enjoyed the woman's company than the pleasure was wholly derived from her person rather than her body, sex merely complimented the relationship.

Regarding options -- some of those require a fair bit of luck, finding a woman ( or a human) that doesn't care about power is like winning the lottery, you can't count on it, no matter how hard and how long you try, this love for power is just very pervasive and has always been there since before history.

But even if I'm horribly wrong/misguided or the greatest fool ever, even idiots are very worthy of love. there's no reason why people in my situation should exist, but the fact that we're here is because it wasn't our goodness that anyone ever sought, it was our utility. Even if I come to power one day, and even if I gain a woman's admiration, I go into it knowing that she wouldn't have any interest outside of the power, be it my money, my confidence, or abilities -- those things are all going away.

Though it's funny you mention martyrdom, it's not a bad thing as long as it's a for a good cause, and remaining good -- even if it's not popular, is very good cause. Like I've said, it's the last thing that a person like me has, and perhaps the only thing that's going to be left of anyone when they leave this planet, we came in weakness, and we're going to leave in weakness -- not power.

God, this is just adorable.

Sex is natural.

Marriage is a manmade concept that has nothing to do with how to lead a complete & fulfilling life. A relationship may be a part of it, but marriage doesn't necessarily have to be.

Religion is another manmade construct, created by men to rule & control other men. Spirituality can be wonderful, but organized religion and it's rules aren't necessary for people to lead proper lives.

People have evolved to utilize recreational drugs/plants/alcohol etc - it's a part of the human experience.

Learning about yourself is good. Mastering yourself is even better. You have some good points and good advice, but you lost me with your anti-sex pro marriage & religion stances.

i must be on the right track then, because i master myself just about every day--and twice on sundays! hehehe

I should resume my count of Nice Guy related threads.

That actually made me feel quite empty inside. The look on the guys face in the middle picture made me feel really bad for him. He looked happy and felt accepted.

To be precise, when I talk about the "nice guy syndrome or problem", I am talking about people who, like someone else here put it quite succeedly, who complain that women don't give them the "respect they deserve". It lies within human nature that we want to make people means to our own ends to certain dregee (after all, even platonic friendship derives from our own need for social company and sharing our enjoyment with someone), but the equation I am critical about is:

I am nice. Other men are jerks. Therefore, I am better than them. Therefore, I would be more privileged to mate with women I find attractive. Women should find me more attractive. But they go for guys that are not as nice to them as I am, which I just defined myself as jerks. Therefore, women only go for jerks.

It bothers me that the sole motivation in this thinking is to be coercive, so the woman will drop her pants. The rational is, in essence, that they create their own moral pedestal, step on it and judge everyone from this perspective. This is self-righteousness at its very essence, because it shifts responsibility for a problem that is self perceived to be such to everyone else but yourself. There is no difference to some pompous jerk who flashes his bling around and tries to pick up girls in an expensive car. That he is more successul lies not within him being more or less a jerk than the "nice guy", he just knows who his target audience is - he knows his demographics. Women who fancy attributes in men like kindness, careing and being low-key and layed-back in attitued, they do not go for men like that, usually. That would be the right demographic group for the "nice guy", but he does not want them. He wants the "bimbos", tha "hot and naughty" girls that go for material wealth and a macho-attitude, because they are hotter.
Now, this is not necessarily true for all the self perceived "nice guys", some of them have "lower standards" as well. But from my experience, they still go for women where I, as an observer, know that they will not fall for it because they don't play "in the same league". When men say that being nice doesn't get them the girls they want, they almost always mean girls who are at least somewhat attractive. Let me put it the other way: How many of the, would go for a girl that is just "nice" to them, has a very good character, but is otherwise bland and unappealing?

It goes the same way around with women, they have their double standards, also, but in another aspect. You commonly hear about women not wanting to be objectified sexually, which is not true at all. They do want that. Everybody wants that. When women say they don't want to be objectified, one could usually add "...by guys I don't find attractive".
You can make a little experiment with yourself, no matter if man or woman:
Imagine the absolutely most stunning person you know, or the one you always had a crush on. Now consider that hey think about making love to you while in bed, fondling themselves. Would you object to that? Most certainly not, because if you knew, you would go over and be there with them lickedy-split, and we can all agree that this kind of behaviour is quite the definition of sexual objectification.
Imagine now the very same scenario, but switch out the attractive person with the most annoying, unnattractive and disgusting person you know. Suddenly, you'd rather wish they didn't don't you?

There is no inherently bad about having " a scheme". After all, it takes two to party, so if there is someone to be found that goes for it, by all means, knock yourself out. It becomes an issue, however, if you start projecting your own failure on other people's behaviour, when in reality, it is you own attitude that is the issue. Even more so when you like yourself in the role of the suffering martyr that takes "the high road" because he is such a moral character.

He didn't know Yiddish - nor do I. I didn't mean to give such an impression. I just think 'mensch' makes for a good comparison to the Nice Guy. A mensch has all the supposed 'good' qualities of the Nice Guy (as Klowglas has attempted to assert) without the obnoxious self-pity.

He was born in 1919 in Durham, England, to parents who had moved south from Scotland to look for work. Lost his dad to a coal mine collapse when he was about eight, and with his mother and siblings did what he could to bring in money. He left school at 14 or 15, and took any odd job and errand he could find (this being the post-crash 1930s). I can't remember where he fought in WWII, but when I was able to recall speaking to him from around 1983 on (I was born in 1980, a scattered memory for the first five years and not much better after), he could speak some Italian and some Hindi. After the war, he worked for British Gas. Doing safety stuff, making sure the gas works wasn't about to explode. When he met my Nan she already had a son, by a Canadian airman who upped and left when she was pregnant - this was the early 1950s, and she had to fight like hell to keep her baby. They later married and had a daughter together - my mother.

Keep in mind he was 60 when I was born. So my recollections of him are of an older man, though by all accounts of those who knew him longer than me, he was as I would describe him. He liked gardening and trees and reading and horse racing and opera. He drank rarely - a glass of wine at some particular celebration, perhaps. He was polite and well presented, and rarely moved to anger though never let himself be taken advantage of or walked over. He was confident in his capabilities, though never cocky or arrogant, and I never once saw him ruffled or flustered. He had a very dry sense of humour, and integrity. He was someone people could and did go to for help, who looked out for others, and someone who could be relied upon, who stood by his word.

He leaned to an idealisation of and soft spot for women as befits a man who watched his mother hold together (and house and feed and clothe) a family after his father's death. But it was one that recognised the strength and capabilities of women and wouldn't have them stuck in the kitchen, remarkably progressive given his formative time period and the views of many of his contemporaries.

For much of when I knew her, my Nan suffered with pretty bad arthiritis. Because of this, my Grandad tended to cook and do the housework. If anyone had asked how this affected his sense of masculinity, he would have looked at them in good humoured disbelief, then got on with the vacuuming.

In many ways, he was what we might think of as a grown up. Or, again, a mensch.

(Same goes for my Nan, too - men and women alike can be so - but I thought my Grandad a more apt example for Nice Guy talk)

The cure for it is to grow a dick, to tell the woman that you find her attractive and ask her out.

I will say this is partly true. Based upon what I have learned I would not tell her that she was physically attractive when I first wanted to date her. They may take that as you just wanting to have sex with her and not appreciate her for her other qualities.

I say do the prerequisites that I suggested first or at the very least be in the process of doing them. The very least make sure you have some semblance of a game plan for one's life.

If you date one needs to be in a relationship in which he can be true to himself yet respect the other person so they can be themselves as well.

Maybe I went to far with the anti-sex pro marriage bit. I would like to say something as an aside. Why can't one not be religious at all yet still not believe in having sex before marriage? Maybe they just want to save themselves for that special someone.

My point is this nice guy syndrome is a by product of our over-sexed culture and as Sweetleaf calls it making sex into a status symbol. Remove the status symbol and choosing to refocus one's priorities rather then playing the nice guy to obtain sex never comes into play.

IMHO, the question that people should ask is how do we live the good life with honor and virtue no matter who we interact with? Hopper has given a lot of info about his granddad. Maybe we ought to pay attention. Did Hopper's granddad make sex and getting laid his #1 priority in life? More than likely, I say no. He had other things going on.

I love your sense of humor. Nothing wrong with doing that. I'm all for it.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 13 May 2014, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Now I imagining the facial expressions you do in the process (avatar), can't help it.