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sly279
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30 May 2014, 11:59 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
sly279 wrote:
whats boring to you isn't to others. I quite enjoy my simple yet interesting hobbies. Videogames, shooting, hikes, firearms, browser games, money collecting I really don't have time for them all. But hey they aren't exciting like, rock climbing, river rafter, mountain biking etc.

I don't consider my reason for difficulty having to do anything with me being nice, or at least I haven't experienced any rejection based on it. never had the I just see you as a friend. Which is where that mostly steams from yes?

not sure what a unattractive personality is? o.O


I'm not saying your hobbies are boring. I'm talking about people's personalities.

People's personalities != Their hobbies.

A bubbly, friendly, funny person can like video games, as well as a bitter woman hater who can hardly make conversation, or doesn't even want to.


Okay Hale_Bopp, What does personality mean then and what makes a personality appealing attractive to you?


A good personality in my opinion is someone who loves to have a laugh, enjoys talking about quirky and interesting things, is approachable and friendly, is laid back, non judgemental and doesn't take life to seriously.

That is my opinion, but the majority of the bell curve like these traits in people. I'm not saying everyone does, but from what I've noticed, it's these guys who never have trouble getting girlfriends, no matter what they look like, and these guys are nice people, as well.

Pretty much every guy I find easy to talk to doesn't have problems finding people to date, so it can't be just me who thinks like that.


that's how people describe me. well except I'm not sure what quirky means.
what you described seems more like a good friend though, which is why I seem to make "acquaintances" quite well. I don't let them become friends.

Though I really believe my failure to find love is really in the fact that I lack a permanent job and am not attractive.
When I see a list of tings they want I won't contact them unless I meet 100% of them.



MDD123
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31 May 2014, 8:19 am

I save all that "nice guy" energy for work, that's where it's productive.


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Azereiah
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31 May 2014, 9:05 am

A truly good person has just as much success in relationships as anyone else.

Some people prefer folks for their core personalities, some people prefer folks for their humor and looks.

Just be careful. I've found that those with a "Good" personality often end up being a major target for manipulators and other very, very bad people.



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31 May 2014, 9:14 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Leo Durocher, a baseball manager, was actually the guy who first said "Nice Guys Finish Last."


Sport is about the only context where that is true. I can just imagine the boxer Mike Tyson saying "Oh I'm sorry, did I punch you too hard? I'll be more gentle with you". :wink:


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31 May 2014, 10:35 am

I know a guy with a crappy ugly and wannabe-bully personality and he is dumped by even the not that attractive girls and I don't think any of the girls I've been with want to be with him, he hasn't kept his girlfriends for long time either although he probably tried his best.



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31 May 2014, 10:49 am

hale_bopp wrote:
A good personality in my opinion is someone who loves to have a laugh, enjoys talking about quirky and interesting things, is approachable and friendly, is laid back, non judgemental and doesn't take life to seriously.

That is my opinion, but the majority of the bell curve like these traits in people. I'm not saying everyone does, but from what I've noticed, it's these guys who never have trouble getting girlfriends, no matter what they look like, and these guys are nice people, as well.

Pretty much every guy I find easy to talk to doesn't have problems finding people to date, so it can't be just me who thinks like that.


What should someone do if they have a boring personality? I don't consider myself boring by any means, but I do often wonder if people find my personality boring...I have difficulty with making interesting conversation when I'm just sitting and talking with someone. I'm far better at having engaging conversations when participating in some interesting/fun activity or when in an interesting place...but just sitting in a room and talking is tough for me.



hale_bopp
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31 May 2014, 3:26 pm

sly279 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
sly279 wrote:
whats boring to you isn't to others. I quite enjoy my simple yet interesting hobbies. Videogames, shooting, hikes, firearms, browser games, money collecting I really don't have time for them all. But hey they aren't exciting like, rock climbing, river rafter, mountain biking etc.

I don't consider my reason for difficulty having to do anything with me being nice, or at least I haven't experienced any rejection based on it. never had the I just see you as a friend. Which is where that mostly steams from yes?

not sure what a unattractive personality is? o.O


I'm not saying your hobbies are boring. I'm talking about people's personalities.

People's personalities != Their hobbies.

A bubbly, friendly, funny person can like video games, as well as a bitter woman hater who can hardly make conversation, or doesn't even want to.


Okay Hale_Bopp, What does personality mean then and what makes a personality appealing attractive to you?


A good personality in my opinion is someone who loves to have a laugh, enjoys talking about quirky and interesting things, is approachable and friendly, is laid back, non judgemental and doesn't take life to seriously.

That is my opinion, but the majority of the bell curve like these traits in people. I'm not saying everyone does, but from what I've noticed, it's these guys who never have trouble getting girlfriends, no matter what they look like, and these guys are nice people, as well.

Pretty much every guy I find easy to talk to doesn't have problems finding people to date, so it can't be just me who thinks like that.


that's how people describe me. well except I'm not sure what quirky means.
what you described seems more like a good friend though, which is why I seem to make "acquaintances" quite well. I don't let them become friends.

Though I really believe my failure to find love is really in the fact that I lack a permanent job and am not attractive.
When I see a list of tings they want I won't contact them unless I meet 100% of them.


I doubt that. Its most likely lack of confidence and interpersonal skills. Those are often a given in people who have no trouble at all dating.



cubedemon6073
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31 May 2014, 5:43 pm

Quote:
I doubt that. Its most likely lack of confidence and interpersonal skills. Those are often a given in people who have no trouble at all dating.


Why is confidence harped on so much? Let's look at the definition of confidence?

Why does one always have to feel certain about things? Why is it considered an evil in the USA to admit that one has things he does not feel certain about? Why is one expected to project like that he is assured about things and puff himself up in this phony bravado? Why is one not allowed to admit that he doesn't know something?

Why is one not allowed to be humble instead of confident? Why is humility considered a vice not? I don't get it? What is the fundamental reasoning for confidence over humility?

Why focus on confidence instead of the entities that contribute to confidence like competence? Why focus on the consequent instead of the antecedent? What is the logical basis for this?

How is it logically possible to pursue and obtain confidence in a direct way? Wouldn't it be better to pursue the things that lead to confidence instead of confidence itself? Why pursue confidence? It's like the paradox of hedonism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_hedonism

I had no confidence in my driving abilities because I did not know how to switch lanes correctly. When I received instruction in driving school I was able to integrate the instruction and my confidence soared? Why pursue confidence instead of the things that lead to confidence? I don't get it.



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31 May 2014, 5:58 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
I doubt that. Its most likely lack of confidence and interpersonal skills. Those are often a given in people who have no trouble at all dating.


Why is confidence harped on so much? Let's look at the definition of confidence?

Why does one always have to feel certain about things? Why is it considered an evil in the USA to admit that one has things he does not feel certain about? Why is one expected to project like that he is assured about things and puff himself up in this phony bravado? Why is one not allowed to admit that he doesn't know something?

Why is one not allowed to be humble instead of confident? Why is humility considered a vice not? I don't get it? What is the fundamental reasoning for confidence over humility?

Why focus on confidence instead of the entities that contribute to confidence like competence? Why focus on the consequent instead of the antecedent? What is the logical basis for this?

How is it logically possible to pursue and obtain confidence in a direct way? Wouldn't it be better to pursue the things that lead to confidence instead of confidence itself? Why pursue confidence? It's like the paradox of hedonism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_hedonism

I had no confidence in my driving abilities because I did not know how to switch lanes correctly. When I received instruction in driving school I was able to integrate the instruction and my confidence soared? Why pursue confidence instead of the things that lead to confidence? I don't get it.

I think its taken as a given when people say to pursue confidence that they mean by that pursue the things which lead to confidence.

and I think most people dont think the opposite of confidence is humility but think its nervousness. I think people generally dont feel safe with nervous people and thats why its seen as unattractive. Like with babies and small children they like people who are confident with kids and not people who are unsure of themselves eg they feel safe with the 'confident parent' not nervous 'aunty pam'.



tarantella64
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31 May 2014, 6:13 pm

Bravado is not a good thing -- unless confronted by a bear, I suppose -- but confident people are generally happy and relaxed, optimistic. It's not easy to be with someone who's frightened all the time, or who won't try things because he's sure they won't work out. Or who's radically insecure and liable to resent his or her partner because everything turns into a referendum on the insecure person (oh my god, he's training for a 10K, now he'll despise me because I'm out of shape).

Personally, though, I've never heard anyone say, "I'm looking for someone who's confident." Actually, I take that back, I've seen that on a lot of guys' profiles on OKC. I suspect it's code for "will not need multiple assurances that I'm not a serial killer, and won't insist on 30 rounds of email before agreeing to meet, also will be open to the kinky s**t in bed that my wife always said was disgusting and refused to do, though really that's more fantasy than anything else, I've never actually tried it so IDK. I just don't want you to call me disgusting."



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31 May 2014, 6:38 pm

You know, an awful lot of men are un/underemployed and married or have partners. Not having a job doesn't mean you're a bad or undesirable person. But it does make people ask some questions:

Is it a hard-luck thing (hey, it's not easy for anyone to find a job right now), or is it because you're disabled, or is it because you basically don't try in life? If someone gets involved with you, are you there to contribute, or to be taken care of? If you're having trouble finding work, or are disabled, do you still get out and contribute somehow? Volunteer, help others in your family (like really help, not do things grudgingly because they're housing you and you have to)?

If a man's bitter and despondent about being unemployed, and has a list of who's to blame for it, a lot of people will steer clear of him, men and women both. Not because he's unemployed, but because he's inclined to blame other people for his problems. And they don't want to be the next person he blames for something gone wrong in his life.

It's been such a hard time, the last few years, for young people and for people in late middle age who've lost their jobs. The latter aren't too likely to work again, no matter how many jobs they go after. And young people are carrying gigantic school debt that they can't get rid of, and the job market for them is just terrible. Out of all the graduating college seniors I've worked with, all smart and hardworking kids, only one's graduating with a job in hand. One more has grad school lined up. The rest...nothing.

I think most people struggle, in America anyway, at this point. And maybe some of those women you meet who specify "must have a job" have taken a chance on an unemployed guy before, only to see him move in and start using her as a hotel/maid/dining service. I know it's happened to me more than once. Actually had to throw one guy out (and he tried to make me feel bad about it, too). So practical caution may be some of what you're hearing, too.



cubedemon6073
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31 May 2014, 6:46 pm

Quote:
I think its taken as a given when people say to pursue confidence that they mean by that pursue the things which lead to confidence.


Maybe you're right. It is possible that this was implied and I missed the implication.

Quote:
and I think most people dont think the opposite of confidence is humility but think its nervousness. I think people generally dont feel safe with nervous people and thats why its seen as unattractive. Like with babies and small children they like people who are confident with kids and not people who are unsure of themselves eg they feel safe with the 'confident parent' not nervous 'aunty pam'.


I don't get this part though. How is it logically possible to be sure all of the time? It makes no sense? In order to be sure like others demand one would have to have absolute and perfect knowledge of all. None of us has this so wouldn't it be arrogant to be confident in somethings that one can't be absolutely sure in.

I wrote this on my blog a while back that shows the philosophical and logical pitfalls of this idea of confidence.

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... d-honesty/

Will you please tell me what you think and please critique me?



tarantella64
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31 May 2014, 8:19 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
I think its taken as a given when people say to pursue confidence that they mean by that pursue the things which lead to confidence.


Maybe you're right. It is possible that this was implied and I missed the implication.

Quote:
and I think most people dont think the opposite of confidence is humility but think its nervousness. I think people generally dont feel safe with nervous people and thats why its seen as unattractive. Like with babies and small children they like people who are confident with kids and not people who are unsure of themselves eg they feel safe with the 'confident parent' not nervous 'aunty pam'.


I don't get this part though. How is it logically possible to be sure all of the time? It makes no sense? In order to be sure like others demand one would have to have absolute and perfect knowledge of all. None of us has this so wouldn't it be arrogant to be confident in somethings that one can't be absolutely sure in.

I wrote this on my blog a while back that shows the philosophical and logical pitfalls of this idea of confidence.

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... d-honesty/

Will you please tell me what you think and please critique me?


I think people mean "on balance", cubedemon. Nobody's confident all the time. Even confident people get nervous. But if you're generally confident, generally believe things will work out and you'll be able to handle what life throws at you, generally believe you'll come through all right, you're likely a relaxed and maybe even inspiring person to be around. I think a confident person, faced with uncertainty, will shrug, do a rough gauge of the odds, and say yeah, I can probably handle that.

An example: I don't know for sure that I won't be fired next week. But I'm pretty sure I won't be, and I don't fret about it. My salaried job definitely doesn't pay all the bills here, and there's no way to know for sure that I'll get enough freelance work to cover it. But I've always managed so far, and things look pretty good, so I'm not freaking out. I don't know for certain that my daughter will check for turning cars before she rides across a street, or that drivers will look out for her -- but she's a reasonably strong bicyclist and sensible, and odds are she won't get hit, so I'm fine with letting her go.

"Confident" doesn't mean "relentlessly certain of success". It's just a level of trust in yourself that you'll probably manage, one way or another -- and a disinclination to fret about the possibility that you won't.



cubedemon6073
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31 May 2014, 10:58 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
I think its taken as a given when people say to pursue confidence that they mean by that pursue the things which lead to confidence.


Maybe you're right. It is possible that this was implied and I missed the implication.

Quote:
and I think most people dont think the opposite of confidence is humility but think its nervousness. I think people generally dont feel safe with nervous people and thats why its seen as unattractive. Like with babies and small children they like people who are confident with kids and not people who are unsure of themselves eg they feel safe with the 'confident parent' not nervous 'aunty pam'.


I don't get this part though. How is it logically possible to be sure all of the time? It makes no sense? In order to be sure like others demand one would have to have absolute and perfect knowledge of all. None of us has this so wouldn't it be arrogant to be confident in somethings that one can't be absolutely sure in.

I wrote this on my blog a while back that shows the philosophical and logical pitfalls of this idea of confidence.

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... d-honesty/

Will you please tell me what you think and please critique me?


I think people mean "on balance", cubedemon. Nobody's confident all the time. Even confident people get nervous. But if you're generally confident, generally believe things will work out and you'll be able to handle what life throws at you, generally believe you'll come through all right, you're likely a relaxed and maybe even inspiring person to be around. I think a confident person, faced with uncertainty, will shrug, do a rough gauge of the odds, and say yeah, I can probably handle that.

An example: I don't know for sure that I won't be fired next week. But I'm pretty sure I won't be, and I don't fret about it. My salaried job definitely doesn't pay all the bills here, and there's no way to know for sure that I'll get enough freelance work to cover it. But I've always managed so far, and things look pretty good, so I'm not freaking out. I don't know for certain that my daughter will check for turning cars before she rides across a street, or that drivers will look out for her -- but she's a reasonably strong bicyclist and sensible, and odds are she won't get hit, so I'm fine with letting her go.

"Confident" doesn't mean "relentlessly certain of success". It's just a level of trust in yourself that you'll probably manage, one way or another -- and a disinclination to fret about the possibility that you won't.


I think I sort of understand but I will have to think through what you have said a bit more to process it.



sly279
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01 Jun 2014, 1:14 am

hale_bopp wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
sly279 wrote:
whats boring to you isn't to others. I quite enjoy my simple yet interesting hobbies. Videogames, shooting, hikes, firearms, browser games, money collecting I really don't have time for them all. But hey they aren't exciting like, rock climbing, river rafter, mountain biking etc.

I don't consider my reason for difficulty having to do anything with me being nice, or at least I haven't experienced any rejection based on it. never had the I just see you as a friend. Which is where that mostly steams from yes?

not sure what a unattractive personality is? o.O


I'm not saying your hobbies are boring. I'm talking about people's personalities.

People's personalities != Their hobbies.

A bubbly, friendly, funny person can like video games, as well as a bitter woman hater who can hardly make conversation, or doesn't even want to.


Okay Hale_Bopp, What does personality mean then and what makes a personality appealing attractive to you?


A good personality in my opinion is someone who loves to have a laugh, enjoys talking about quirky and interesting things, is approachable and friendly, is laid back, non judgemental and doesn't take life to seriously.

That is my opinion, but the majority of the bell curve like these traits in people. I'm not saying everyone does, but from what I've noticed, it's these guys who never have trouble getting girlfriends, no matter what they look like, and these guys are nice people, as well.

Pretty much every guy I find easy to talk to doesn't have problems finding people to date, so it can't be just me who thinks like that.


that's how people describe me. well except I'm not sure what quirky means.
what you described seems more like a good friend though, which is why I seem to make "acquaintances" quite well. I don't let them become friends.

Though I really believe my failure to find love is really in the fact that I lack a permanent job and am not attractive.
When I see a list of tings they want I won't contact them unless I meet 100% of them.


I doubt that. Its most likely lack of confidence and interpersonal skills. Those are often a given in people who have no trouble at all dating.


well being as every woman i did go on a date with says I have confidence and make them laugh and generally have a great time. and all the women who have rejected me have only rejected me over my profile and lack of employment, I think your doubt is wrong.

the only people who see my lack of confidence are those who I let my walls down to. my walls are very much down on this site.

the last lady I went the longest with we had been friends for a while and she said I had no confidence, but when we started being romantic, I put my walls up and she wondered where the confidence had been hiding, she later ended it do to political differences.(which is why i hesitate to follow the wait for politics for later in the relationship ideal) I seem to put off this confident, funny, great to be around person personality when out and about, I only wish I could do it for myself. Cause inside I worry and fear rejection along with disworth. I have internal confidence in my knowledge of history and firearms/video games though. I guess i'm a paradox plus good at outer appearances though when i'm out and about with people, I get really happy and become a cheerful person. Its hard for me to repress my smile and happiness sometimes, but when with others I can't do it so it flows out, and when it does I'm good at faking smiles and happy.

maybe I just need to get out and be more social.



sly279
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01 Jun 2014, 1:35 am

tarantella64 wrote:
You know, an awful lot of men are un/underemployed and married or have partners. Not having a job doesn't mean you're a bad or undesirable person. But it does make people ask some questions:

in my area it seems to, its #1 on most of their requirements list.


Is it a hard-luck thing (hey, it's not easy for anyone to find a job right now), or is it because you're disabled, or is it because you basically don't try in life? If someone gets involved with you, are you there to contribute, or to be taken care of? If you're having trouble finding work, or are disabled, do you still get out and contribute somehow? Volunteer, help others in your family (like really help, not do things grudgingly because they're housing you and you have to)?

I'ts a mix of hard luck and disable, also wasting 4 years to get a degree in a field I can't work in. I don't exactly want to tell people i want to date that I'm disabled though, who wants a disabled bf. I don't volunteer cause all the places that do that are 14 miles away and since they don't pay anything I can't afford the gas to get there. I help friends/famiy grudgingly for somethings, but I could tell them no, but they family and gotta do whatever I can to help them even if i don't like it. I would try to always contribute though I do have super depressed days when I can't do much. not that it matters since they don't ask why I don't have a job, its you don't have one ... then no further communication.


If a man's bitter and despondent about being unemployed, and has a list of who's to blame for it, a lot of people will steer clear of him, men and women both. Not because he's unemployed, but because he's inclined to blame other people for his problems. And they don't want to be the next person he blames for something gone wrong in his life.

I blame only myself, which is why I have shame around it and depression along with feeling like s**t. then add women saying the same and I now feel worthless. I know the reasons why I can't get work, but I don't see any way out of them except luck.


It's been such a hard time, the last few years, for young people and for people in late middle age who've lost their jobs. The latter aren't too likely to work again, no matter how many jobs they go after. And young people are carrying gigantic school debt that they can't get rid of, and the job market for them is just terrible. Out of all the graduating college seniors I've worked with, all smart and hardworking kids, only one's graduating with a job in hand. One more has grad school lined up. The rest...nothing.

lots of people from my program all found jobs, and I didn't its depressing and I feel to ashamed to talk to them cause it'll come up. Debt is a problem, companies don't want to hire people who have debt. one of the reasons it's hard for me to find work.


I think most people struggle, in America anyway, at this point. And maybe some of those women you meet who specify "must have a job" have taken a chance on an unemployed guy before, only to see him move in and start using her as a hotel/maid/dining service. I know it's happened to me more than once. Actually had to throw one guy out (and he tried to make me feel bad about it, too). So practical caution may be some of what you're hearing, too.


I surpose or they just want someone equal , either of which I understand on some level, but non the less its really depressing and seems like an endless wall that i can't get past.

If i moved in and couldn't find work, I would cook, clean, etc for her. I would likely do those if I had work too though except on bad days. I want to do those things for someone. well minus house work , that'd be nice to share. though if I wasn't working I'd make a attempt to do it all.

I don't know if i'd want to move in with a woman, eventually but not for a while. when I move out it means my family that i rent with will also have to move out, so they'll be mad at me. I don't want and won't be able to move back if the relationship doesn't work. now staying with her for days or a week at a time or weekend, that would be cool, and she could always stay here occasionally too.

I don't feel that's what they worry about or they'd phrase it "must be able to provide for oneself." in which Case I could then message the ones not wanting fit body type.

I had two women reply to my craigslist ad, and so far they seem ok with my job, though I twisted the truth a bit and haven't said its seasonal, just said I have a cashier job, other coworkers list it on fb and say it's there job , so it seems a reasonable twist in NT minds.