How can I initiate a date?

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I've said this before but no one seems to be listening. It is estimated that 96%of Autistics are sexually abused. That means TONS of guys too. And it is estimated that of those 96% , 40% have been asaulted 10 or more times. This is NOT primarily a -woman issue. It is more of an AUTISTIC issue, and simply because you have a "family member with aspergers," that does not make you the "expert',of all things Autistic. Because you are not. In my opinion, you have caused so much chaos and divisivness on WP the past month or so. Some of us have debated the reasons for your actions. Whatever the reasons,you keep talking about the sexual assault on women and the acceptance of misogynous males here on WP, and that has negatively impacted the feel of Wrong Planet [ you know, the planet that NT's could not understand and should NEVER attempt to lead.] As Autistics, we as a group are naive and trust too easily, [maybe because by nature most of us are less deceitful than most NTs]' It so feels to me, that you are taking advantage of that beautiful naivete in a show of concern [and teaching us right from wrong] which is only a facade. That is how this appears to me, and others.

Touche - you have a point here. Rather than live in fear like you choose to, I think I'll make a conscious effort to begin complimenting some guys in public (when appropriate, and I'm attracted to them, and something about them says they'd take the compliment well and/or respond favourably) and see how they react to it. From conversations with straight guys, most would likely be flattered even if they're not interested at all. IF someone reacts negatively, meh, so what? I suppose I do have the physical advantage of being 6'2" 200.5lbs & physically fit combined with the fact that I'm attracted to younger physically smaller/slimmer guys in general, so it's not as if I'd compliment some middle aged gym freak who could snap me in half if he wanted to. Nonetheless, point taken - I'll make a point of complimenting guys here and there when appropriate vs. be afraid they'd freak out. Can't let fear hold you back!

On that note, IF I were attracted to middle aged gym freaks then I'd consider complimenting them at random, too, because in REALITY (where most people live) the vast majority of people out there are pretty decent normal folks vs. scary nut jobs that are going to freak out about being complimented by someone they're not interested in. Reminds me of when a friend of mine (about middle aged, strong physical build) was out with his wife and he said there were a few gay guys walking by who saw them together, kind of eyed him up and down and one of them said "hmm, that's too bad.." and his thoughts were a bit "ew, I want nothing to do with that.." but also "hm, thanks for the compliment," and he said nothing to them and just carried on with his evening. Most level headed people out there would likely be rather indifferent to a compliment they received from someone they weren't interested in, IMO.

Further to that, I don't think the typical heterosexual male should have to fear a negative reaction from complimenting women, either. But the way you people are posting here is as if people don't have any business complimenting others and that's just crazy talk to me. Why assume the worst when someone says something nice?

I've been complimented by women and it's flattering. Ditto with when some have pretty much flat out proposed we go have sex. I've been complimented, and even flat out propositioned once, by some guys and even though I wasn't interested it was still nice to hear some positive words and get a little attention. If nothing else it's a bit of a confidence booster vs. something that's made me live in fear of receiving a compliment from others. Who lives their life like that with an "Oh noes, nice words are gonna git me!!" attitude?? Bizarre.

Sweetie, I know it's the bar scene. I got married in 1987 and thats what the scene was in Birmingham if you wanted to meet somebody new and didn't have any parties or fun things to go to with friends to meet somebody new they had invited. I know I'm WAAAAAY out of date on what it's like now, but I also know plenty of single girls who do appreciate compliments, and even married girls who appreciate them. I've been come on to and complimented by a strange man since I've been married. I don't like rings so they have no way of knowing. I'm never offended, I just thank them very sincerely and tell them I'm married and walk away with a little more spring in my step and then tell everybody that I got hit on that day.

I'm talking from my own experience, just like the gals you mentioned to goldfish are talking from theirs. Mine is no less valid than theirs is, but the difference is that I wouldn't want to change the entire dating world to act like I wanted them to. Everybody has their own preferences and we are all free to pursue them, at least until society gets brainwashed to think that we can only want a few approved types and ruins everything for girls who like the guys that whatever arbiters of safety and respect for women would probably have castrated and sentenced to life in prison and force them to get degrees in Women's Studies and write essays about their inner child and become emotional and maybe even have periods too if science can manage it, all for the crime of not coming across the right way.

Oddly enough, I talk about the bar scene but I met my husband when I was at work. I worked at a convenience store and he came in after work and the girl I was working with told him that I said he was awesome, which I did when he came in. I was furious then but happy after. He looked at me and his first words were "Well damn baby, you made my day! You wanna get together and see if we can't make each other's day sometime?" I said yes. It was six months before we had sex though, although we got drunk together and I stayed over there many nights and slept in the same bed. He took a bit of prodding to actually make the big move after the big talk when he met me, but that was fine.

I always liked guys who had a bit of a sexual vibe about them. Ones that looked at me like they knew something in bed that nobody else did. Guys who were bigger and stronger than me, although my ex husband who I married when I was 18 just to get out of the house was smaller than me, but he was just a way to get out. Guys who take risks and push the limits. Guys who could actually handle me and be forceful enough to be dominant when I wanted them to be (but I never let one be when I didn't want him to be). Guys with good hair and tans and rough hands. Guys who I knew were guys who could actually take care of me if need be. But, I also wanted one that had a little depth to him when I snuck my way into his mind, like I always did. I wanted a physical guy who could actually love me the way I loved him. I found him. It took some looking.

Unlike Tarantella, I wasn't offended by a guy obviously wanting to get in my pants. He can want in one hand and s**t in the other for all I care. He won't be in there till I want him in there, but being lusted after was nice. I was never a tease or anything though, but I certainly felt an attraction when a guy looked at me that way when he was hitting on me, if he was my type. Just because a guy wants to have sex with a girl doesn't mean that he won't fall for her personality and brain later on. I've had several relationships start that way. I didn't just screw them because I hoped they would like me as a person later, I screwed them because they were hot and I wanted to do it. I had no way of knowing if I would like them as a person later, and with some of them I didn't and I was outta there. But the relationships I had that started that way were fine and dandy. They weren't marriages and forever type things because I wasn't in love like that. I also didn't want to settle down and didn't until I fell for my husband.

I am not putting down Tarantellas type of guy or her way of moving the moves and romancing or anything, but I'd like to think that the way I liked it and lots of other girls still like it to this day, won't be demonized because it's a little too intense or edgy for somebody else.

Who says I'm living in fear? I don't like uninvited people invading my space, physical or mental. If I have any fear at all, it is that I am likely to be rude to anyone who approaches me without a legitimate reason*. I don't enjoy being rude, but I reeeeeeeeallllllllly value my personal space.

I don't like it when I'm sitting on a bench (whether I'm waiting for someone, waiting for a bus, or just taking a break from walking) and anyone (male or female) comes along and starts up a conversation. Basically, if I'm somewhere by myself, it means I'm not in the mood to be social, with the exception of being in bars - that is a clear indication that I'm looking for socialization.

If I'm at the library, or a bookstore, I'm there because I'm looking for a book. If I'm at the hardware store, I've usually got a project or repair I'm in the middle of (and any man would be nuts to approach me when I'm dressed the way I'm usually dressed for a trip to the hardware store, so in that scenario someone coming up and saying "you're beautiful" would be extremely creepy!). However, someone asking me about a book I'm holding, or commenting on the stuff I'm perusing at the hardware store might actually be welcome. Just don't make it about HOW I LOOK and you're good.

*A notable exception to my "don't talk to me if I'm out in public alone" desire is if you need to ask directions. I'm always happy to help someone out, but any approach with a personal remark feels encroaching and invasive.

Well, if you think a man is EVER going to ask directions you are gonna be waiting a loooooong time

If you were talking to me in this post, I was referring to T and SA mainly about the fear thing. They seem to be suspicious of guys, but they could have good reason to be for all I know. Nothing wrong with being cautious and I teach my children to be cautious about a lot of things. We are in a small town though so they don't meet strangers, and they are either at the age where I was running wild with whatever guy caught my eye, and I have one that's the older than that already and he's a guy and single now (THANK GOD, SHE WAS A b***h! but in a much different way from me and very hurtful to him) and the middle two are in relationships and their SO lives with them and my youngest isn't interested in much of that yet because she says she's got her whole life to meet a guy, but she only has a limited window to get an education and start a career. She's smart and looks out for number one for sure.

If I was suddenly single now I really wouldn't want to have to go through that bar and party scene like I did back in the day again. I'm too old for that now. I know what you mean about a guy coming up and actually starting a conversation with you to meet you rather than give you some Jersey Shore come on line. Thats probably what I would respond to now. Unless a super hot guy who just had everything nailed there in the pushing my buttons department came up to me and tried to make a play. Depending on the mood I was in, I might or might not, but at this time of my life I doubt I would trust him as far as I could throw him so he wouldn't be relationship material.

You like what you like. That's a good thing. It's good that you know exactly what you want so you don't end up shopping in the bargain basement or God forbid the Goodwill store (metaphorically) for something as important as a relationship. I got no problems with you or how you triage the talent that comes your way. Not at all. We should know our own minds and not just wait for whoever to possibly like us and then like him just because he likes us. That happens all too often with females or all ages and all neurological classifications. That self esteem s**t. I don't have any really, not for real and not in my looks at all, but I can fake it and also still look damn good when I want to even though no matter how good I look I never think I'm pretty enough or even really pretty, maybe I just held my head right in the mirror or something. I got that kinda bad self esteem.

Annnnd...you were there, so naturally you know what was going on. I see your mindreading powers work at long distance, too.

You say that I'm living in fear, but my apprehension is for exactly the same reason as yours. Most men in the world are larger and stronger than me. I've never been sexually assaulted, but I've had enough male friends unpermittedly pick up my body to know that most men could kidnap me fairly easily if I couldn't fight them off. I?m 5?3? and 103 lbs. That?s about 11? shorter than you and half your weight. There aren?t many 7?1?, 400 lb guys around for you to use as comparison, so let?s take the limit down. Every man you see who is at least 6?8? and 300 lbs gets a complement from you about the appearance of their body, face, or hair.

Why don?t you get a choice about who you interact with? Because we women don?t get a choice about who comes up to interact with us. Doesn?t matter if he?s covered in scars and prison tattoos. You don?t get to choose. You get to say, ?That teardrop tat really brings out your eyes.?

Complement the bodies, faces, or hair of all these big men that you see (including all the gym freaks who can snap you in half) for at least 5 years, and see if you can feel any empathy for us by the end.


And it's true that most men aren't going to become a stalker or freak out about being rejected, but there are a few who will. It's the Schrodinger's Rapist idea. http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/


Of course a friend of a gay guy isn't going to freak out about being admired by gay guys. Once again, you don't get to choose who the stranger is. It could be someone who's friendly, or it could be someone who's not. Consider it Schrodinger's Assaulting Homophobe.

Generally:

There's no point in trying to spin the argument to say, "Well, it's just a few wacked out women here who find compliments threatening/don't want to be kissed or otherwise handled sexually without giving consent/find catcalls threatening/etc." The tubes are currently full of women, in various threads, telling exactly how they feel when these things happen.

There's #yesallwomen.
There's #grabbed.
There's one that's blowing up now to do with being masturbated at in public.

We're now at the point where we've got someone saying, well, not all women get raped, therefore women shouldn't fear rape. If 25% isn't enough, how much is? Should women start getting nervous when 50% are raped? 75%? What's the cutoff? (Hint: We've passed the cutoff when it's common enough that once you start talking about it amongst women, everyone's got a rape story, either about herself or a friend/relative. Which is now.)

(Vicky, nobody here has said that men don't get raped. Men do get raped. But the context here is "how to find a girlfriend", and the conversation was about how not to pick up women because it's creepy and burdens women with even more anxiety than we normally live with. The corollary, since you bring it up, is, 'Don't go up to men whose looks you like and leer at them and treat them like sex objects in hopes that they'll go out with you.' But nobody was suggesting that women do that.)

There seem to be thousands and thousands of women happy to explain these things. So it appears, goldfish, that my views, and the views of several other women here, are not at all atypical. On the contrary, they seem to be quite ordinary. What I don't understand is the stake you have in insisting that your theories about these things trump the realities in front of you.

That's f*****g brilliant.

You realize, though, that you've now invited some mindblowingly stupid advice about how you should learn martial arts and carry a gun. And have a big tough boyfriend and a dog, and lasers that shoot out of your tits, mostly because that'd just be cool.

I love this so much I can't stop commenting on it. You did leave out the part about leering and being sort of physically overbearing. Goldfish, you want to make sure that the guy doesn't take the compliment the wrong way. You want to be Paul-Ruben suggestive about it. I mean really swish it up so there's no mistake. Also please do it in public around other men so that it's plain that he's the target of your affections.

Maybe because I'm a small guy, 5 foot 5:

I've never had a woman object to me complimenting her.

Well, think about it.

Think about how many women get abused verbally and/or physically assaulted when they make their displeasure known.

Think about the fact that even a 5'5" guy can deal out considerable damage to a woman.

Think about how much less risky it is to smile and simper and chirp "Thanks!" and slip away.

Yeah, maybe they liked it. Or maybe not. But because of the above, the odds that a woman's going to turn on you and call you out are pretty damn slim. In fact they're so slim that when a woman does go after a guy for macking on her, it makes the news. I'm not gonna look for the Boston T story now, but it sure got a lot of play.

Thousands of women, in the last few months, are bothering to post their stories and say how these things make them feel. There's a certain ubiquity to the experience and a similar anger throughout. Perhaps keep that in mind, along with the above.

Oo! Like a fembot, but with pants! I had to point out to some dummy on Facebook that carrying a gun to prevent rape is stupid. It's not like a guy says, "Hey, I'm going to grab you. Let me give you time to get your gun out of your purse and aim it at me." More like, "I see that you're trying to get a gun out of your purse as I grapple with you. Let me wrestle that from your hands and use it against you."

I think that was a reference to the fact that I encourage everyone to learn a type of self defense that actually works or arm themselves.

No, a rapist doesn't tell you in advance in time to shoot him first. That's kinda obvious. And you may not be able to fight the guy off, but learning how to try is better than nothing. You never know if you will be able to or not until you are in the particular situation with the particular guy.

It also makes you feel a whole lot safer and gives you much more confidence when you feel that you can protect yourself somewhat.

Is self defense and empowering yourself a bad thing now?

I would never do anything to hurt any person, unless the person starts up with me. I believe people know that about me, and trust me.

Women don't feel threatened by me.

Even little girls trust me enough to be sassy with me.

As far as somebody expressing displeasure: I'm pretty good at reading the signs. I'm an Aspie, but I have life experience.

Believe it not, there are women who could mete out a pretty decent amount of damage to a guy as well.