my mother doesnt' want me to date an asperger

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There are thousands of conditions outside Autism which could explain overt male dependency upon girlfriends. Why tarantella64 myopically focuses on the soul-crushingly negative aspects of the condition is absolutely beyond me - I own a car, study all the time I can, know how to cook, can fix broken things and I'm not absolutely inexperienced with women - often I'm more comfortable with girls than dudes, us guys can get REALLY ANNOYING. It's not like a guy needs to have ASD in order to misinterpret his whole life.

Again, just gotta say all this pessimism and anecdotal negativity could really hurt people. It's nowhere near the decorum called for by any other health-related inquiry. We are humans first, autistics second. Telling everyone we should be alone on the basis of fleeting statements or actions is deplorably shortsighted, as is relating all of anyone's deficits back to a single diagnosis on the internet.

cberg - matter of context. Her mom was worried about things that, depending on all kinds of things, might be real things to worry about. The thing is that marriage isn't just about yourself and your ability to get by and live well on your own; it's complex, it's social, the other person is relying on you to do all sorts of things and not necessarily on the schedule that best suits you and your health, especially if you have kids. And if you can't manage it the other person has to pick up your share of the work and, maybe, help look after you. It's not a trivial matter. I say that as someone who did time as a caregiver-spouse while being mother to a young child.

Is it necessarily the case that her beau has these problems, no, but it's definitely prudent to find out before throwing in. The stakes for her are high, and some decisions are irreversible.

Aspies are freaks, your mother doesn't want you with a freak and have the chance of ruining the family bloodline with freak DNA she wants you to have perfect children with nothing wrong with them.

Last edited by AspieOtaku on 08 Jul 2014, 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

You may well be right.

But matter of context, it seems to me that too much gets blamed on Aspergers, absolving the individual, in this case and often male, of responsibility and capability of change.

Matter of context being that men with Aspergers and men generally, as women, are perfectly capable of being supremely selfish. It is perhaps and arguably more common for that to occur in an intimate relationship if the male has AS, I say male because that is who is generally referred to, not because it's necessarily male specific.

But let's see this as it is and drop the pretenses that are tiresome around ASD blaming. A selfish partner is an awful thing. Sometimes containable, always a disappointment.

No, I don't think that's fair, Waterfalls. Again, depends on the guy and the severity of the AS, but if he isn't able to pick up on social cues or understand social constructs well enough to sense what's expected -- or if he's easily overwhelmed -- then he can leave quite a bit of the family and couple work to the woman without realizing it, or meaning to, or being able to do any different.

Take for instance just one ordinary part of family life: children in the house. They're loud, they're a tremendous lot of work, they're demanding. When they're little, they're literally demanding every few minutes, they usually need lots of touching and physical affection, and they can't be expected to behave like anything but little children. It's a sensorily relentless environment. If the guy can't handle that and flees to his room, well, the work must still be done, every day, every hour those kids are awake. And if he abandons that to her because he can't handle it despite his best efforts -- that's a very significant burden. It's also one that in practical terms she can't do much about, especially if he doesn't earn much (despite best efforts) and she doesn't either (because she's got almost full responsibility for the children).

If they go into it knowing that he's a lovely guy but functionally disabled in this respect, and that they absolutely must line up reliable outside help (like grandparents and nannies), then they can do something about this. They can save the tens of thousands for a few years' in-home childcare (doesn't take care of the whole problem, but will help). They can decide to live near a set of in-laws friendly to the cause, and find other support. And it will still be hard, but it won't be the clusterf**k it'll be if they do what you suggest, which is to pretend that things will be fine so long as he's not a jerk.

What you keep resisting here (on every thread where it's mentioned, it seems) is the fact that shouldering some (or a lot) of life's ordinary functioning for a spouse who simply can't is a very real and significant burden, one that can damage the spouse over time. Even if the spouse with AS is a beautiful human being. And if the same condition that leaves the spouse with all that extra work also makes the spouse with AS withdraw emotionally quite easily, or for long periods, then the caregiver spouse is struggling on without the emotional support of his or her spouse -- but with that person still in the house to be looked after.

You hear it frequently: "I feel more like a mother than a wife." That's not a joke - being a mother's rewarding work, but it's work, and it can be very lonely work. The more so if the AS spouse is difficult enough socially that maintaining a social life with him isn't possible.

I am not saying (and have not said) that the OP's boyfriend has troubles to this extent. But there's only one way to find out, which is to live with the guy instead of imagining.

It seems I should mention that I've never personally heard anyone on the spectrum say they want kids, and I've hung around quite a lot of aspies. That said, I myself am rather indifferent towards this matter, though I know the risk of ASD in kids goes up with the ages of their dads. At least peronally I enjoy spending time with kids, I used to coach a cycling summmer camp and I'm hoping to go back to it - between all the aspies I met during all that time, I don't think I met anyone truly incapable of a relationship, and that includes school.

If I know one person socially impared enough to meet these criteria, it's got to be me and I love people. Disingenuous as this may sound coming from someone with our condition, I am not pristinely devoid of emotion.

Last edited by cberg on 08 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, Tarantella. I have trouble communicating effectively at times and perhaps this is one of them.

What I am resisting is this idea that people with AS are incapable, especially men with AS. Social demands are more of a struggle, certainly. Everyone struggles, sometime in their lives. Over and over I see posts by women some of whom have AS and many of whom are nurturing parents. For myself it's taken a lot of time and support, but I love my kids, and when I see something is a problem, work to find solutions. I reject the idea that I can, I must, because I must, an idea many women share, while my male partner may be unable to do better so I should take care of him because he's trying, he can't do any more.

What I am resisting, perhaps wrongly, is the idea that many women adapt and grow and find ways to be effective, but men are defective and little children of whom more cannot be expected. Maybe you're right, but I'm not ready to go along with that and feel it is demeaning and untrue.

I think an expectation and demand for sensible behavior may be important in any relationship.

And since this is WrongPlanet and hopefully anonymous, I will take a chance and add I also reject being condescended to over and over by you or anyone simply because you can.

I may not communicate efficiently. I am not stupid. Perhaps if you consider what I am saying rather than insisting I am wrong you might gain something from the sharing of ideas.

Wait, where are you getting the idea that women change and grow and men can't? That's nowhere in what I've been saying.

I am saying that not everything can be overcome. You do your best as a mom, fine. But that doesn't mean that everyone with AS who's trying to be a good spouse can actually function well in the family, even though they may be doing their level best. You hear those stories all the time on this forum, people trying to be more aware and functional and -- I mean there's a reason it's classed as a disability. It's not a matter of "don't want to", it's a matter of "can't".

So no, i wouldn't advise someone to go right ahead with a relationship with someone with a disability without understanding the extent of the disability and thinking very carefully about what this is likely to mean down the line.

Oh. Well, there's a bunch on this forum. Seems like there's usually a conversation bubbling somewhere here about should I/shouldn't I. I'd actually be more concerned about the OP's wanting kids, in this case, and potentially kidding herself about what her guy can take on as a dad. Again, why living together first is a good idea, so long as she doesn't fall into the "oh go ahead and have kids, the responsibility will make him grow up" trap.

Congrats users, you have scared the OP to death, I bet she broke up with him already.

I do 90% of the parenting of my two kids. I make ALL appointments (for my husband included!), despite having an aversion to talking on the phone. I am the one who signs the kids up for social activities, drives them to the activities, and waits by myself for them to finish the activities. I'm the one who insists we attend family functions even though they often overwhelm me. I'M the aspie one, and I clean the house. I pay the bills. I do the laundry. I know where everything in the house and garage is located. I fix all the hurts and the brokens.
I totally and completely reject the idea that Asperger's causes people to do nothing but sit in a room and play video games all day while their families suffer. If your spouse acts this way, it is because he/she is a JERK. A jerk who also has Asperger's, not a jerk because of Asperger's.
Geesh.

Yes, I know I contributed to some negativity. Have mixed feelings about as it is her thread, but arguing is something we seem to do a lot of here---is it best she be prepared? If nothing else, her mom is really the one who started this.

I don't think Aspies have a monopoly on arguing or trouble listening, do we? Maybe that should be the point. OP and potentali boyfriend will need to decide how they feel, themselves, about each other.

Not about labels.

So here are two people with AS saying, "if I can do ____, everyone with AS can do ____."

Why does this seem sensible to you? I don't see how it makes sense in any context. There's no reason for me to assume that anyone can do what I do. And no reason for, say, my tennis instructor to assume that I can just, you know, figure out how to get graceful on the court, ever. Or for someone else who's nearsighted, but not as nearsighted as I am, to assume that I can in fact manage fine without my glasses. (Nope.)

This attitude seems to me to get very close to shaming people for not being able to do things they really cannot do. If you can work hard and do things in your life, that's great. Your degree of autism, in you, does not preclude your doing these things. But I don't see where this is a reason for blanket "if you don't do this you're just being a jerk" statements.

I'm sorry to harp on this but the argument seems to come up every time someone talks about functional limitations as a spouse or parent due to AS, and I just don't see how it's justifiable.

Here is one person misreading what I wrote and condescending to me.

I think you have to pick one. What did I misread?

Tarantella please consider others have thoughts worth considering.

Please consider that if one chooses to take tennis lessons, the goal is to improve. And that with coaching and effort, one is highly likely to get better. Not great, but better.

Please consider that no one is suggesting anyone go without glasses. Rather that people who need coaching accept it and people who need glasses, wear them instead of complaining about the world being out of focus.

I don't see anything wrong with treating an adult with ASD as an adult. We are not little children to be protected from responsibility or consequence. No one is saying everyone can do everything. Rather the issue is allowing for and recognizing individual variation. OP knows her mother and boyfriend and is in the best position to think about them and her own wishes. Any of us can suggest things to think about, that's all. We don't know the individuals. And it's not our choice.

I need more than giving up and dragging other people down that goes on by achieving Aspies around me who give up on being socially appropriate to me while continuing to put the effort in with others who won't put up with their being inappropriate. Tells me they can when they want.

The point is, Aspies who are adults deserve to be treated with respect, not Infantalized. That's disrespectful. I understand you see this as shaming someone with a disability. I see the infantalizing and disrespect as the more negative.