so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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to me, the frantic angst of young mens societal misgivings are as meaningless as the shrieks of bamboozled chimps who flail their way in a mindless tantrum through the foliage in their cages at the zoo as i walk past.
i do not know what they are fighting over. all i know is that they are all beaten up, and when they find a break to lick their wounds, they soon instinctively leap back into the fray (like injured moths returning to a fire). i walk on by.

i have no understanding of what goes through the minds of people who want to fit as a "piece" into what they perceive of as "the mosaic of society".

society to me is merely a convenience in that i can easily source food and shelter and accoutrements that i need from it in order to live my existence peacefully and lazily alone.



i have no interest in how i am perceived in a social sense. i have no particular attitude or opinion about women to affect.
i have a few friends, most of whom are female, and i never consider their gender. i only pay attention to peoples heads. they are just heads that i talk to.
just like any other head. as long as they are sensible, then they are all the same really.

First, this desire for companionship is natural; and the lack of it (companionship) might lead to frusturtion moments; like in ANY love forum, not just Wp, you're gonna still hearing concerns of lonely people and fears of staying alone...etc.

Second, you are mixing different threads, concerns, complaints, advices into one entity as a source of misoginy, as far as I know yes there were 1-2 members advocated creepy street approaching and cat calling but those aren't the same who are afraid of remaining alone for life.
In fact, billiscool, which one of those 2 members constantly boasted about having two current gfs.

You're mixing everything together.

Essentially, then, insecure men are the enemy. Some men will lash out at women when rejected - a very good example being Elliot Roger - but they are always very unhinged in the first place. Most men, judging by some of the threads about rejection on this forum, lash out at themselves, deeply criticising themselves for their failures with women. They may grow to resent women, but resentment does not always lead to abuse. I have no doubt that there are women out there who have a deep resentment for men because of rejection from them. Sexism is a two-sided coin. I don't know why it is so often portrayed as one-sided

Fair enough.
I guess I just assumed that he was, since the other person has a similar approach to discussion to your fine self.
My goodness, hopefully you will actually shut up now.


Well, I find the generalised longing for a partner to be quite an alien concept.
A lot of people seem to sit about pining for a non-specific partner... not anybody in particular, just like.. Generic Partner X.
I don't get like that, so it seems like a strange approach to have, to me.

I think that a lot of people like that have no real idea of how to behave once they do eventually get a relationship... they often haven't considered what a relationship is likely to involve... what a partner might want from a relationship... or even what they want and expect from the relationship in some cases.

I have been known to ask men out... sometimes they said yes, and at other times they said no.
Or sometimes I would say that I was interested in a guy and then things would develop from there.

In many cases? So any man or woman complaining about being constantly rejected/ignored/not asked out and questioning their own worth openly is, in many cases, is a closet sexist?

SA, this is not right, a lot of married people are sexist too, and anti-gay haters are haters because of the bible/religion/uprising regardless if they are closet gays or not. Married men who are sexists are sexists and sexist men who always got rejected are sexist too, as simple as that, there are plenty of non sexists too, it's not a matter of being too rejected or not.

Well yes, but I think it's fair enough all the same to remark that in some (enough to be vaguely definable as "many") cases it is indeed that sort of insecurity or bitterness as a result of being rejected that can fuel some (many?) peoples' sexism.

I wonder if this thread title applies to lesbians, too...? Or to gay men's feelings about other men. Would rejection from your own gender make you sexist towards you own gender, then?

i think tarantella made a good point about the difference between men and women being rejected that should be noted because i think a lot of men make the mistake of thinking that women never ask guys out because they don't see it or experience it a lot themselves--when really what is happening is that women only ask out guys they are really interested in dating, as opposed to just any cute thing that catches their eye (which seems to be what a lot of men trying hard to find a GF do). if you ask out absolutely anyone whom you find even remotely attractive (especially if you are basing that attraction on pure physicality rather than observable personality traits) then you're going to get rejected a lot. however, if you save the asking for those individuals who seem really special, who seem like they might be compatible with you as a person, you will find yourself having to deal with rejection less frequently.

i know i personally am extremely picky when it comes to guys--and i am not at all talking about looks. all the guys i have dated (perhaps a dozen or so) have varied quite widely in physical appearance (i've dated guys of different races, heights, hair/eye colours, builds, etc). the commonality they all shared is that something about who they were as a person caught my interest and made me feel like i wanted to be around them and get to know them better because i found them fascinating. most of the time, i was the one to make the first overt move towards establishing a relationship with them, whether it was giving them my phone number or asking them out (or in one case asking him if he wanted to go home with me--and only because i had been talking to him for hours and found him irresistible PERSONALLY, rather than physically). sure i thought he was good-looking, but how appealing he was physically mattered little compared to who he was and what he told me about himself. in fact, the more we talked and the better i got to know him, the more attractive he became to me physically because of what i knew of him as a person. the opposite has happened to me as well: there have been times where i felt an initial physical attraction to a man, but upon talking to him and finding his personality repugnant he became ugly to me physically, because when i looked at his face i saw a nasty mean person and i don't find that attractive. when that happens obviously i don't ask those guys out.

anyway, the point is that it seems (to many men) like women don't ask guys out because we just do it less frequently than guys do. at least, this has been the case in my own experience--most of the women i have known have asked guys out--they just waited until they found a guy that they were really into before they asked, as opposed to asking any "cute" guy that passes by.

people get far too hung up on appearances, men and women both.

More sexist assumptions. Plenty of women I've known go almost entirely for men they find attractive, too. It's human nature, not male nature.

The real problem is, men keep being portrayed as the enemy, people to be feared. I'm tired of women crossing the road when I'm walking towards them just because I'm male and tall

Ironically starvingartist, if I recall right, Laddo's ex approached laddo after he posted his picture in a thread (correct me if I am mistaken laddo, i might have confused you with another former couple.).

People date for different reasons and driven by different things, this isn't new.

Maybe because it isn't as two-sided as you think.

For someone who spends so much time behind a screen, I'm actually pretty sociable. And in 25 years of being a grownup woman, I...can't say I've ever heard a woman express the sort of frustration, rage, self-loathing, vicious sexism, etc. I hear routinely from men over rejections of overtures. The only similar thing I've heard from women has to do with being dumped from a relationship, particularly if it's for another woman, and especially if deception's been involved. But there's no "for f**k's sake, how do I get in?"

If you listen to the PUA-type talk, it's because a woman can "have" any man she wants, all she has to do is crook her finger. Which, though completely fictional, is also a source of misogyny -- the envy and resentment of this supposed magic power of women's. But I think the actual reason may be that many fewer women than men feel compelled to run out and find a lover, so of course the rejection frequency's lower. At this point we get all the "men are way hornier than women" thing, which, as a woman with a fully functioning libido who's been with a nice variety of men now, I think I pretty much reject.

Elementary... a wider gap remains between male & femle than autistic & neurotypical.

Call me crazy but I think we'll survive.

Oops. Anyway - I think the resentment has an effect. You don't have to get all the way to abuse to be a misogynist.

I am also very sociable, or at least used to be. I have heard a lot of women expressed the same kind of rage as men. One girl I lived with at uni posted a status on Facebook that said something like "All men are c***s and should die" after he boyfriend cheated on her, for example. I have heard women comedians making jokes about slicing men's balls off.

The problem here is that you are not seeing men's side of the story. You are only focusing on women's side of it. How do you expect any form of true equality to be achieved if men are consantly portrayed as the enemy? Yes, women are portrayed in a negative light as well. Women have to put up with sexism and being objectified. I don't think any of the men on this thread are denying that. I also believe that women have to deal with more s**t in their lives than men. So yes, maybe there is more explicit sexism directed by men towards women, but that does not mean it is right to put most men in the same boat and deny that is still a lot of sexism directed by women towards men.

Women have every right to their safety as well as you. So women aren't allowed to even protect themselves? Of course they don't know who you are, but why should they take the risk just to protect your ego?

Protect my ego? Why should I be seen as a threat when they don't even know me? Because I'm a man. We're the enemy to them. They don't need to protect themselves because very few men assault women. This is becoming a full fledged war on men, it seems