Men asking before kissing on First Date (again this topic)

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~sigh~

So, for the purposes of discussion, let's presume that 90% of women prefer men not to ask, and 10% prefer that men do.

If we are to look at the route of always asking, we're looking at a route wherein men are going to strike out with 90% of women. This will result in lots of single men and women. This is an untenable outcome.

If we are to look at the route of never asking, we're looking at a route wherein 10% of women are going to experience unwelcome advances. This can cause undue suffering on the part of these women, especially if they have been victims of sexual assault in the past. This is an untenable outcome.

It seems as if no matter which route you go, you lose. However, further dissection of the issues associated with the first one reveal an underlying problem: A lot of them view asking as lacking in confidence, breaking the mood, or both. The solution, then, becomes clear: Finding a way of asking that does not lack confidence or break the mood.

There have been a few suggestions to that effect already. One of these is not putting it in the form of a question, but a statement. I've espoused a "statement of desire" myself in this thread so far. "I'd love to kiss you" is a simple, straightforward way of doing it. For the record, I asked permission from my current girlfriend. Specifically, I asked "Am I allowed to kiss that sexy girl in front of me yet?" She blushed and said yes. It worked. She told me that she felt my asking gave her a lot of agency and control over the situation, something she greatly appreciated.

Ultimately what I suspect most of that 90% are actually opposed to are men being wussies, not obtaining consent. A lot of them like the spontaneity as well, and that one seems like a trickier problem to tackle. Perhaps a solution to that is for men and women to hold out on the thrills of spontaneity until after a few advances have been welcomed first, and it's established that the spontaneous advance has a higher chance of being desired.

Not all body language is subjective or ambiguous.

If you ever see this: Slightly dialated pupils, noticably increased blinking, periodic flaring of nostrils... Man is she ready. But unfortunately your date is a Lesser Walker's Sea Turtle.

All these can be subtle and can be ambiguous.

I think the most objective body language is the leaning and head, if she leans back or turn her head then it's a clear nonverbal no; the key would be leaning really slow toward her to give her enough time to react; fast "stealing" kiss might turn ugly.

There's also the motion of her lips during the kiss and her head tilting (and in her hand if she's using it), you would be feeling if she's kissing back (go on sign) or just standing still (stop it now), this one can't go ambiguous.

I don't actually think it's about Boo at this point, I think it's more about the very heated and judgmental way that the subject was argued previously, basically 'if you don't ask, you're a rapist', and demonstrating how out of step with the vast majority of women that position actually is.

Boo, I honestly don't understand why you're retreading this argument in the first place. If you're not trying to date, then what's this thread for?

He just misses tarantella64 and is trying to lure her out of hiatus.

[MODERATOR NOTE:]

Tarantella64 has been banned from Wrong Planet, as has StarvingArtist.

With that being said, I'd like to remind everyone that discussion of banned members and the circumstances surrounding their banishment is prohibited by the site's rules.

Thank you.

I would prefer to state my desire to kiss a girl. "Ive never felt more like kissing anyone in my entire life" i'd add to that a sign that she should give if the advance is unwanted "How does that make you feel"? Or "Is the feeling mutual?" Or as Nat King Cole might say "Shall we dance"? XD

So that's how you signal "kiss me"? How do you look down to your own lips? Do I have to make a duck face? Feel like I'd be cross eyed doing it lol. I hate these body language s**t.

^ Aren't you into that kind of stuff? Maybe that's why you attract/are attracted to those submissive girls?

He just misses tarantella64 and is trying to lure her out of hiatus.

You should be my wife, you understand me perfectly.

Yes I do. Now if only you understood moi...