Toxic femininity

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I think the equestrian amateur mechanic was conveying her impatience regarding guys like me through her appearance rather than her words, along with a hint of conservatism imparted by another friend of hers. I just wasn't feeling that. If I run into her we'll probably light up some herb and talk cars all night as if nothing changed. The academic one was catholic so I have no clear idea where she stood. One girl I've known for ages was/is actually a model and she's really down-to-earth! I know she's interested but I'm hesitant to subject her to my weirdo geek-hippie reality. That and I know someone legitimately quite special who probably understands my mind better than I do, and she makes any clothes look stunning.

That sounds like it might relate to the sort of Disney-fairy tale notions of romance that many girls grow up on. I think it's related to the gold-digging, but also a little different. Sort of a desire for a prince charming who will make everything perfect be responsible for their happiness. That is the way that little girls are encouraged to think of weddings and the way that the wedding industry markets weddings. It objectifies men because they are seen to exist to solve all of the women's problems (via marriage) and therefore creates unrealistic expectations about relationships. Because women are encouraged to be passive, it means that they look to an idealized prince to solve their problems and make them happy. That's my read on the obsession with high-profile weddings anyway.

Claiming that all women are potential gold diggers is as stupid as when a woman says that all men are potential rapists...

Asking how much money someone makes is always rude and strange!
There are women that only think about money, but I think there are a few men that are the same way. But I think the way that some women use men for money is no different from how some men use women for their looks. Every time I see some old fat grandpa guy with loads of money with some super young model looking girl, I can’t help but to think that they probably deserve each other…

Anyways what's wrong with having an interest in fashion? Why is it that subjects traditionally considered female have to be looked down on, as if it makes the person interested in it vapid? It is possible to have more than one interest, and to my knowledge one does not automatically become brain dead for liking clothes

Nothing wrong with it, I just lack the foggiest clue about how to interpret it really and there are far more intricate and effective ways of adding beauty to one's world in most cases. I can of course recognize a beautiful dress, though to me it's really a matter of subtext; what are the intentions behind something like that? I really like artists because they view themselves as another canvas, not another archetype.

Dunno, my mother always told me I'm not normal since I couldn't care less about the things like fashion. Another example of toxic femininity? And other girls wouldn't want to associate with me since I know probably less about it than an average guy.

So yes, if it serves only to create gaps between people and you need to have a certain fashion sense (or more accurately money) to be accepted to some groups/cliques, fashion sense is bad from my viewpoint.

I think people are more than what they wear, but I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time either

I don't think the point is that all women (or men) are a particular way. No one conforms to their gender entirely but some gender norms can produce problematic expectations and behavior. I believe that is when it is called toxic.

I don't know that there is anything wrong with having an interest in fashion but if it appears to be problematic in some instances I would be curious to know why and how. Gender and fashion are closely connected as our clothes, makeup, hair etc. are a major way in which we convey our gender.

2 years ago the was a girl have dated numerous time, we had a sexual relation and she almost became my gf, every time we pick the bill even if it's just coffee or juice she INSISTED to pay half, she knows I believe in the half-half thing but since she was still in a new entry job (she was 24 back then) I have insisted to pay all for the time being back then because I felt this was the fair thing to do - so I have paid all every time, never complained nor ever cared. All things appeared good.

Then suddenly, one day she dropped me the s**t bomb question: "financially-wise in relation, do you consider yourself generous or not?"

I sensed offence, so I replied sarcastically: "Nope, I am a stingy beggar as you have already seen so far".

Then she dropped another s**t bomb: "No! I mean do you believe in half-half or what?"

I replied awkwardly: "What does one's generosity has anything to do with believing in half-half?"

Her: "Some guys who believe in half-half are stingy; some aren't"

Me: "You did a correlation graph of that? can I see it please ?"

then I went more serious: "Why asking me that? You should already know me whether I am stingy or not"

[.....more s**t stuff she said...]

Her: "Because women hate stingy men, you should know that" (this sounded so extremely offensive) .

Then she said this how her friends and society believe, and I was like "This is what YOU believe, don't throw it on society".

I've officially terminated the relationship after few days of that; thinking back, I think it was actually terminated just after this convo.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 07 May 2015, 7:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

Yes, creating social gaps is exactly what fashion does as it indicates one's knowledge of fashion trends as well as the economic means to afford them. Women are expected to pay more attention to their appearances than men and are judged more for their looks but fashion also indicates social boundaries among men as well.

That was not nice of your mother or the girls, I don't think that liking fashion is a must for beeing a girl or something that a boy can't be interested in.



I think that liking fashion has nothing to do with money. I mean I love De sterrennacht, but it doesn't mean that I have to have the original hanging on my wall to be able to appreciate it.
Fashion can be clothes found in a cheap shop or in a thrift shop. What is bad is when for instance people; mostly children get bullied for not being able to afford certain brands. But that has nothing to do with fashion; it has to do with people looking down on those that have less. What does a t-shirt from some expensive brand have to do with fashion? Nothing, it just turns you in to a living commercial.

I completely agree with your last statement, and since I'm never wrong (inserts sarcasm) you cannot possibly be wrong either

Except that the % of women in the world who have hypergamous tendencies and potential gold diggers are way more than the % of men who are potential rapists.

If they are equal in numbers, then mankind deserves to be fried by an Armageddon meteor .

So for a woman not to be a gold digger she has to marry someone with less money than she has, instead of marrying for love??

Maybe I'm old fashioned...but I still believe that love trumps all

Love is love, all the rest is just confused BS.

I'm not sure that trying to decide which gender is worse is going to be very productive.

That said, if all parties are in agreement I don't see why a polygamous relationship is problematic.

Toxic femininity I hate:

I've worked in male-dominated jobs my entire life. What bugs the crap outta me is when other women knowingly enter these fields, and then act like spoiled princesses who expect the men they're working with to coddle them, protect them, and do all of the hard work.

Look, I don't have a beef with females who want to be traditionally feminine, but if you're going to act like that, do the rest of us a favor and stay in the kitchen.

Women who do crap like this make the rest of us, who actually care about doing a good job and who aren't afraid to get our hands dirty, look bad. I'm tired of carrying the baggage of these spoiled little princesses.

</rant>

Does it actually work for them? Are they able to get men to do their work or is it more of an unmet expectation? Just out of curiosity I wonder how they pull that off. Feigning incompetence? Flirting? Something else?

thanks! yes, every time i tell her i don't want any more clothes (she can't stand to see me wearing same pair of trousers over and over again) I still get called names even after I'd left home some 15 years ago. that's what mothers do, I guess



sure

dunno, i just see homeless people begging, and gypsy mothers with babies, in dirty clothes, or no clothes, and I used to love certain kind of retro hippy clothes when I was younger...but now I just wear anything that is clean and fits me and doesn't really look as if it it was worn by my late grandma.

Since here it's exactly as you said - fashion means having money, showing it off and looking down at people...like in primary school, when only those who had "Nike" or "Reebok" tennis shoes were popular. I rarely see anyone following fashion in the sense you've described.

I think this relates to the difference between following fashion trends and using fashion as a means of personal expression. There might be some overlap but you can certainly have your sense of style and put a great deal of effort into your wardrobe without caring about whether it follows fashion trends. That's probably how I identify. I love clothes (especially really soft ones--they feel so wonderful on my skin) but I have never paid attention to fashion trends. I get attached to my clothes and take care of them--some of them are more than 10 years old and still look new.