This is what men should do to make women less picky....

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Not necessarily a sexual interest gaze. An attractive woman, a pretty face, is the most beautifully magnetic thing to a man, like when you see a beautiful flower and your gaze is held by it, or the way a baby constantly looks at its Mothers face. More likely men are gazing at you thinking how they would like to be in love with you than just have sex with you then walk away.
Its annoying the way women always jump to the worst conclusion.

I suppose. I would say I'm lucky but being the opposite and never getting attention sucks.

you can just say you're not interested if they approach you. as for people gazing as long as its short its not against the law for people to look at others.

at least people show interest in you .

hugs.

We can be as equal as we want to be. The first step many women could take is to stop looking for excuses to make men look bad for having a sex drive and trying to make them feel guilty for it. I don't think of women "as potential sexual partners first, then as people". It makes absolutely no sense to me, because any hypothetical sexual partner of mine would have to be a person. It's not like I'm sexually attracted to another species.

Well that's a nice way to think of it.


No. But what I mean is that it's objectifying.


It's not what men feel that I mean. It's the objectifying of women. Objects of beauty, to be appreciated by men.

Lol
As a person first.

You guys sound like you view women as products or as art in a gallery. Women are not here for your enjoyment and appraisal. We're just going about our lives.

... which means absolutely nothing to me, other than being a gratuitously derogatory label. Have you never appreciated an attractive man? Would you say you were objectifying him? Wouldn't you feel insulted if someone insisted you were? Well, that's how I feel when I keep being told I'm a bad person for liking women physically, always with the unwarranted and unexplained assumption that I can't like them without dehumanizing them.



What we subjectively "sound" like to you is beyond our control and our responsibility. The only thing we choose is what we actually say, which you haven't answered, at least in my case.

I still don't know what you mean by as a person first. There's no first---women are people; not seeing them as people involves not seeing them as women, and, to me, this would eliminate their sexual attractiveness.

To be consistent with your words, you should have steered clear of pursuing any kind of relationship with a man, because men aren't there for your enjoyment and appraisal, either. We're just going about our lives. If you believe in equality, that is.

YesYes.
No




So you see personhood as being linked to gender?


Again, I'm not anti-relationship. Sometimes two people just click and that's great. But I don't think of every man I see as a possible partner. I see them as people.

Why?



How does that follow from what I said? You don't seem to have read it. I see womanhood as being linked to personhood. I'm sexually attracted to women, who are by definition female people, and female people are people. They're not anything else, so I'm not sexually attracted to any kind of being which isn't a person. But this is hardly any different from what I said before.

Don't forget you are the one insisting I see women as "not people". I'd gladly stop wasting time with this concept, meaningless to me, and which serves no purpose other than deliberately making me look bad for no reason.



They won't "just click" if they never meet or approach each other, and your previous discourse condemns any move that would make it possible. So men should just let their whole lives go by without ever trying to get to know a woman, as this would be objectifying her? I'm guessing you're fine with a man you like approaching you, but he can't know it in advance. It's far from the first time I've been suggested I should know in advance no woman will ever like me, so I should never pester them by trying to make any contact with them. And, indeed, this is what I do in real life. Ironically, I've taken your rules more to heart than you have yourself, but this doesn't mean I like them, or that I'm unaware people who do get relationships have to break them.



So you see a relationship as being incompatible with considering your partner a person? This is a completely alien idea to me, but people like you insist on taking it for granted and judging others according to it.

What's your point anyway? That it's okay when you do it, because, although liking someone sexually is inherently evil, you do it very little, as a picky woman, while men, being much less picky by nature, do it much more often, so they're that much more evil?

Nope, women see men potentially as either objects to raise their social status or as providers, in some rare cases both.

The problem is we live in a society where traditionally male wants and pursuits, namely sex, are denigrated. And where traditionally female wants and pursuits, namely social status, are glorified. As a result, women often end up believing they are somehow better than men simply because their natural, inborn desires are different from ours.

Exactly. This is why I identify as an Egalitarian, but I will never identify myself as a feminist.

Yeah, my goal is to make you look bad.


Pestering is not a good idea.


Nope.


Evil? I don't think so. More misguided.



Seems like sex is glorified by society not denigrated. The media sexualizes everyone.



Defensive much, guys?

I'm not saying desire is evil, I am saying it is disrespectful to women to view them as possible sexual partners without actually knowing them.

Person first, gender second. For both. Sexual desire is normal but you don't have to let it run your life.

It isn't very nice to give sarcastic and condescending answers, without addressing any of our points or questions, when we were in the first place defending ourselves from accusations you made, like that of seeing women as "not people", which make us look bad and you tacitly refuse to explain. This is the main reason I've bothered to write my lengthy posts here.

Okay, enough time wasted. I'd like to leave the discussion on better terms, but you don't seem willing to make it possible.

How? Women do the same thing all the time. Dating someone just for sex is disrespectful. Being sexually attracted to someone whom you don't know is not disrespectful, it's impulsive. Unless you can naturally regulate your hormones without the use of drugs, I don't see how it can be considered disrespectful. In fact, both genders will approach someone whom they are physically attracted to and then get to know them. It is rare that someone will get to know someone else and then become physically attracted to them. That's where the whole "friend zone" thing comes into play. I'd say it's even truer that females do this. Guys are more likely to date a girl whom they've known for awhile. Girls are less likely to date a guy whom they've known for awhile, because they'll see them as just a friend.

And normal. I'm talking about behaviour.

I'll have to take your word for it. I wouldn't approach a guy because I find him attractive. I'd have to have a better reason. Like common interests.

For me it always works that way.

So, meeting people for the purpose of finding a partner is disrespectful? Are dating websites disrespectful then because their purpose is to help people meet others (who are strangers initially) in the hope that they could be a potential partner?

Dating sites and the like are attempts to artificially create an environment where you "get to know people," like the compatibility questions and chats. Doesn't work for me, but it does for some. The commercialization of the mating process.
I think these sites are disrespectful of natural human relationships.

yep. its why I don't go out so as not to burden the female overlords. when I do go out if I see a woman I quickly look down at the ground. men are so terrible, should we not just all be killed?well atleast the worthless ones like me. women like when the well off handsome guys look at them.





how withotu approaching him will you ever know his interets?
you find the person attractive, so you aproach to get to know them and thier interests to see if they are compatibile. the ohter way is stalking in which you sneakly follow them and google them to find out their interests. though why'd you do that without having seen them ie oh no so thats the same as the first.

yeah I can't think of a way to do what you say besides on dating sites where the person doesn't upload a photo.
unless you go to activities and just close your eyes and approach every guy there. otherwise you are looking at their attractiveness and picking which guy at the active out of all of them to approach. only blind people can truly start relationships without using attractiveness.