When you finally got first experience?

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I see a lot of women argue they still have it 'hard' because, even if they are the one's approached, they still have to deal with all the creeps and a55høle men who make her uncomfortable or just aren't dating material.

I call B.S.

It is still harder for a man to approach 50 women if only one of them is a decent woman and the rest aren't compatible, then it is to be approached by 50 creeps or a-høles only for one of the males to be decent.

Simply put one takes more effort then the other and men go through the same thing.

Just like women, it's a number's game for us too.

And to the women the argue they have to put much time and effort to appear approachable, nowadays so do we so that we can make a good first impression when we do approach.

Also, some women argue it's easier because we are the initiators, giving us more 'choice'.

Again, a silly claim, as women can choose to wait to be approached or make the approach themselves, males have no choice. It's either we approach and have dating success or we don't approach and don't have success, most of the time.

Besides, just because we can choose who we approach, doesn't mean we can approach women we're more easily compatible with.

Cold approaching, that is stranger women, is still shooting in the dark regarding compatibility and you have only her looks to go off regarding how interested you'd be or not.

Not just her looks. You can also evaluate her based on how she talks and acts. Then you can decide if you're interested based on those. The catch is thatb words and actions take time to observe fully, and can be deceiving at times. Although for older, more jaded aspies, that is usually not the case.

I myself have a threat rating system, based on the one the US government uses to rate the possibility of terrorist attacks. It rates the level of risk a woman will pose to my life and safety in a possible relationship. The US government uses the following levels: Low, Guarded, Elevated, High, and Severe. I use the same ones. Looks factor into my threat rating system (better looks = higher threat), but they're far from being the only criteria.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 11 Aug 2016, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

the real point is: does it matter? you can't choose to be a woman anyway, so it's not like you're weighing options

Aspie1: But you're talking about AFTER you begin talking to her, right?

Or do you mean even before you say the first word?

Because it's difficult to observe her speech and behavior because you'd probably end up staring or looking too much and thus creeping her out and making her uncomfortable.

Anagram:

Um, actually, it seems in this generation at least, you can. You can also 'choose' to be a genderqueer demisexual polyromantic androgynous grey-A bigender person.

Does that sound ridiculous? That makes two of us.

Anyway, I'd say it does matter, because I'm tired of the tired-old debate that men don't have it harder despite the fact we have to take the initiative. There are a variety of reasons this is indeed the case and the argument is sound.

One area I did not cover is, women have to deal with creeps, but they also have to deal with aggressive or outright threatening males who won't take no for an answer.

But, I have heard the very same thing from the experiences of super attractive (say 9-10) looking males too. They also tend to get inappropriately groped and harassed by women and typically it is harder for them to say no because if they try and push her away or anything like that too hard, every man woman and child in the room will come to her aid to stop the dangerous brute from even daring to lay a hand on her.

Male r•pe and harassment victims may be rarer, but it can happen to them too.

agreed


i think the problem is the debate itself though, not the argument. the debate isn't going away, no matter how sound your arguments may be. the harder you try, the worse it gets. because the debate was never meant to reach a conclusion. it would defeat its true purpose if it did. it's simply not constructive. the only people who gain anything from it are the ones who don't want to improve anything for themselves or anyone else. you don't owe them any explanations. the more exhaustively you look at it, the more material will be available for your detractors to cherrypick from

if that's an area you just can't stop thinking about, then you can probably gain more from looking at the dynamics instead (things that involve you, or would potentially involve you, or involve parallels with your own life) but forgetting about blame or "who has it easier" and those sorts of dualistic debates. think of it as just data instead. collect it, sort through it, discard it, analyze it. you probably have more than enough on your plate already without having to worry about the opinions of people who don't matter to your life and who won't contribute to your well-being

Not to mention her body language, and in particular, if and how she stims. How she uses eye contact is another important clue. So, I definitely disagree to Outrider's claim that compatibility cannot be judged before a cold-approach. The only way compatibility actually can be judged is by observing those cues, and not by talking to somebody.



Appears to be a sound system. Especially the one about attractivity being linked to higher threat levels.

Or perhaps they're just raised to be less presumptive of their desserts, to feel less wronged by the universe if they lack a romantic partner?

From my own observations, it seems men tend to think (and express) The World/Society/Existence has it in for them if they can't find a girlfriend. Perhaps women are more likely to (quietly) blame themselves, and not seek redress for the grievance Life has done them?

Re dating sites: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-c ... der-woman/



No, they have to sit there, in their lonely pink towers, waiting for Prince Charming to come along and show some interest in them. So long do they sometimes wait (and wait and wait...), they wear grooves in the windowsill from the drumming of their fingers.

Tis no life, to be sure.

Lol, I honestly wish I DID have more on my plate instead of spending all day everyday lurking Reddit (I don't even use my account on it), posting here, searching for new music, and making near non-existent and insignificant small changes on the music I'm working on (if you can even call it that).

"Just do a little each and every day, as much as you can" doesn't apply here - my changes are so slow and tiny it's not making any real progress and only making me fall behind others who have a faster workflow.

My dedication to the hobby is at an all time low - an extended musician's block that's calling for a long-term reluctant hiatus, and very little passion for it anymore as I lack inspiration beyond this sterile, repetitive lifestyle. It's the depression that's doing this.

All I'm really doing with my life as of this moment is this and going out to events and the beach with family on weekends, saving up my cash from social security to get some decent savings, start leaving the house more to overcome my crippling Agoraphobia and waiting until I can make up my damn mind about university courses. I thought I'd be more decided by now, but progress has been minimal.

As much as I revel in self-pity and jump on the toxic negativity bandwagon, I try to be hopeful and optimistic, or, at least, want to try, our views aren't as different as you might think, and much of what you and the other positive people say here is usually the stuff I think too when I'm actually in a GOOD state of mind, but right now I'm finding solace in the negative, non-productive circling back-and-forth of single, lonely men older than me who've made more of an effort than I have.

Perhaps at the very least I could learn something from them, and avoid making every mistake they did in their youth.

Love and dating is a special interest of mine, and I spend several hours of my day watching approach videos, researching dating advice or stuff like that. I've learnt a good amount.

I don't see bombarding yourself with the opposite - blind optimism and falsities any more healthy or constructive to one's success. Setting your expectations and hopes too high can make disappointment worse, and/or not try hard enough because you underestimate how difficult things truly will be.

But thank you for your words.

"From my own observations, it seems men tend to think (and express) The World/Society/Existence has it in for them if they can't find a girlfriend. Perhaps women are more likely to (quietly) blame themselves, and not seek redress for the grievance Life has done them?"

Personally, I don't think we believe the world hates us for it (though I do agree some men are extremely ashamed of virginity and feel society will judge them for it, so I'm agreeing with you there), just that some, if not many of us, genuinely feel we can't do without a loving partner (or at least, can't function at full capacity), and that's okay - we're only human. Not everyone is cut out to be single for extended periods of time.

For someone with no friends as well, a relationship looks promising, as one relationship tends to feel more powerful than 10 happy friendships combined.

Many will advise one focuses on other things in life - one's own ambitions, hopes and dreams, but not all of us feel these are our purpose for existence.

Not everyone wants to have a successful, high paying career and luxurious living, some are far more satisfied with sustainable living and or even only just making it by but still having enough to pay the bills and live financially sufficient.

I come from a lower-middle class background and, while compared to most of my family I already am more ambitious than the majority, I still have been raised with lower expectations of what I want to achieve in life, but in a good way.

For me, the most important things in life aren't what I have or what I achieve, it's who I have in my life. I'd rather be jobless and no university degree but having loving family, friends and a girlfriend, than have a degree and successful career but be all alone.

"No, they have to sit there, in their lonely pink towers, waiting for Prince Charming to come along and show some interest in them. So long do they sometimes wait (and wait and wait...), they wear grooves in the windowsill from the drumming of their fingers."

But men have to get out just as much as they do. And once the woman is out of her pink tower and the man out of his blue, who typically must do the approaching?

It is harder to send 100 personalized messages if only one woman replies, than to receive 100 messages that make you uncomfortable or are people you're clearly incompatible with yet one of them is a decent guy you'd go on a date with.

It is more time consuming and wasteful or recourses to buy 100 pets only for 1 to be the perfect one, then for the perfect pet to go through 100 owners.

Bad analogy, but it gets the job done.

Regarding the famous male/female ratio.

I don't wholly disagree with what others have said, but I also think that the greater importance men place on physical attractiveness plays a role.

There are many lonely women who, if they were shown a picture of one, many of the complaining men could probably not bring themselves to date because they would not find them attractive enough to consider as a partner. This is especially true when you consider obesity as a factor in judging attractiveness.

The women who are generally considered attractive are quickly "taken" because guys who see them hit on them. The remaining ones don't get any offers, or if they do they assume the guy is just taking advantage of them and they decline.

I have been married since before the creation of dating sites, but I suspect there are a lot of ladies on those sites that even the loneliest guys basically ignore. Especially any who describes herself as "full figured".

OTOH guys don't so much consider their own attractiveness when wondering why they don't get dates. In fact, attractive guys (even on the spectrum) fare much better. I can tell from the stories people post here which are more attractive. Those who are seem to have had numerous experiences despite their AS, whereas others remain virgins into their 30s and beyond.

Sad but true.

(edit)

How many of you would try to start a relationship with a lady who looks like this?



BTW this is actress Gabourey Sidibe whose picture can be found all over the Internet.

My point being that a high percentage of available women are no more attractive than this, many even less so.

Last edited by MaxE on 11 Aug 2016, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Returning to the original topic.

Here is a link to a post I made almost 3 years ago regarding my first experience at age 20:

http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=242222&p=5681458#p5681458

I very much agree. There's a lot of self-selection/reporting going on. Suppose such a man walks into a crowded place of, oh, 1,000 single people. 50/50 female/male, balanced for one's local (18+) age and ethnic demographics, with some resemblance to the local distribution of 'socially approved attractiveness', however one might define it.

He'll see (say) maybe half (if that) of the women there as of possible interest. The other half won't even register (except perhaps to provoke disgust or annoyance). Too old, too young, too fat, too flat, too tall, too short, too immature, too boring, unpleasant face, wrong hair, too weird, wrong style, no style, too bookish, too sporty, etc.

But he doesn't consciously reject them - he isn't aware that's what he's done, but he has. They don't even register as possibilities. So, he looks to what appeals to him, which often has a strong overlap with what he (and the other men there) has been told should appeal to him, and sets about trying to work his magic. Meanwhile, a woman or three who took an at-first-glance liking to him but fall into the 'immediate reject' group can only watch and wait and hope he approaches them (he doesn't even know they exist).

Not being able to find a romantic partner sucks, but it's not going to be solved by throwing a pity party and having a pissing contest over who has it worse.

It's true and online dating certainly doesn't help to resolve this issue. It only makes it worse since he will have more women to select among, and so he selects even more attractive women that already have lots of suitors. That's why increasing dating pools won't lead to better success except for the very attractive (males and females alike).

If we instead decrease the size of the dating pool (like in a group activity), then he needs to lower his beauty standards so that some of the women that he will overlook in a larger group now will be interesting for him to get to know. The only one's that "suffers" from this are the very attractive, which no longer can be as picky, and will (on average) end up with less attractive partners.

For somebody ND, the best way to get a reasonable dating pool is to use the "ND radar", and simply filter out all NTs. That way it is incompatible people that are sorted out, not less good looking or less attractive according to NT standards. Not using this method, but instead doing it like NTs would, means getting a success-rate of only 15% of what NTs have, since 85% of the one's in the dating pool are incompatible. With the ND filtered dating pool, the success-rate is basically the same as NTs would have.

I find overweightness/obesity a poor example.

I never saw it as unacceptable to not want to date someone overweight or obese, especially if you are skinny yourself.

I care about my health and fitness and want the same in a partner.

The problem is, more and more people are becoming overweight and obese in many nations.

This isn't my fault and no one should have to change their standards to be 'more fair' for those that can't meet them. Everyone has every right to standards, high, low, realistic or unrealistic.

More and more young girls and women (and males) my age are obese and overweight than ever (Australia's obesity rate isn't far behind) and yes, it does and will significantly limit my dating pool when I become and adult and the teen girls my age lose their fast metabolisms, because 50% of all Aussie adults are overweight.

Slightly overweight AND taking care of her health and trying to exercise/eat healthy is as flexible as I'll be.

Being overweight while young is all kinds of trouble.

I've seen people turn their life around, but your youth is when you should be in your physical peak, and eating healthy and exercise simply becomes harder in later adulthood once you have more responsibilities and your body physically ages and declines on you.

An obese 20 year old, if they aren't on the right path now, will only get worse or find it harder to make positive changes by age 35 and beyond.

I have my own reasons for this. I've grown up around overweight and obese family members and friends my whole life, the kind that don't care about their health at all. Watching precisely what it's done to them and their lives has driven me away from overweight women forever (which I actually use to have somewhat of a preference for).

Also, my standards aren't high at all. Quite the contrary. They are very low and realistic.

I do agree many males overestimate their attractiveness and I see plenty of average males go for women 'out of their league', but some of us actually like, heck, some of us LOVE and prefer, the completely average, plain, and ordinary (this is me), and I don't consider overweightness 'average' (at least, I never wanted to, but in recent years it very well may be the norm, unfortunately).

At least after 11th grade when I realized I was aiming too high, every gal I pursued or dated was very plain and ordinary in both appearance and personality. I still failed with them. But hopefully that was due to incompatibility, not shooting too high - I'm not ugly or unattractive. I'm their equal in attractiveness at worst.

I think it's rather unfair to compare every perpetually single person to a horribly obese person. I myself am far from obese.

How many people in relationships can honestly say they consider their partner to be ugly? I know I'd be devastated if a girl said she settled for me because all the good-looking guys were taken.

That's right. We cannot expect people to change their standards, so in order to be able to do something about the problem, we need to address the cultural view of dating. That's, in fact, compatible with environmental considerations that cannot be solved without reducing traveling and transportation. We all need to go back to a more local society, and in the dating arena, this will only improve people's abilities to get into meaningful relationships.



For me, it would be pure chance if somebody I fell in love with was very attractive or not, so I could end up being in love with somebody 'out of my league". I mean, I never searched specifically for very plain or very good looking women. That aspect was not really important (but I always had a minimum standard that was way below my own attractiveness).

The 40-year-old virgin certainly wasn't obese.

And he wasn't bad-looking either,

And he had a job and a car.