What is the hardest thing for you when it comes to dating?

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You reject her because she is too hot.

You're absolutely right. It's not "rejecting" somebody at all; it's knowing our place. If I asked out the girl I'm into right now the most likely scenario is that she is horrified by that proposal, instantly abandons our friendship and tells all our mutual acquaintances what a creep I am.

And by Chronos' logic her not asking me out is also rejection. So I've already been rejected anyway. I'm not going to push the matter with somebody who isn't into me.

I don't understand your logic here. This perhaps another typical "Women's logic" meme moment that we men laugh at in beer men-gathering? (and yes, it happens even on WP in private messaging, there' s a secret gossipy men-only club here. ha!).

I would say yes to her if she asks me out, not asking out doesn't equate to rejection - your reasoning on that is really ridiculous, you're trying hard to justify your non-action (like not flirting or courting) and your unwillingness to ask out the men you like.

I have asked out all men I have liked. I was never much for allowing myself to be confined by social gender norms. But that doesn't change the fact that not asking, when one is looking for a mate, and one is tasked with the asking, is a form of rejection. It's a priori rejection.

Men who are available that is. I would not ask out a man in a relationship of course.

It seems that from the last page or two of posts that one of the hardest things for a lot of people here is to stop debating hypotheticals about dating on the internet and to actually just go try it in real life.

Yes, I know I'm a smartass.. but I'm also serious. I think one of the biggest hurdles a lot of people here have to leap over is to just drop the analysis paralysis and go get yourself a date, meet someone, go out, share a meal, have a conversation, laugh, make mistakes, kiss someone (or do w/e you two want), and then either follow up with a second date Or learn from the experience - whether that's to learn from your mistakes or that you learn that person isn't a match for you, w/e.. next!

Read my previous post. There is the issue of gender roles.

Single men are not always in 'seeking for a girlfriend' mode 24/7 - maybe he is not in the mood to take risks or maybe he gave up asking out, maybe the possibility or the idea didn't even occur to him. Maybe he thinks it's useless.

Even if he finds you attractive it may not occur to him to ask you out ; yet if some girl (whom they find attractive in return) asks them out of blue they may take it even if they were not actively seeking - or if the girl is sending obvious flattering signs then they may reciprocate by asking out.

The logic of yours is kind of an entitlement that every single man who finds you attractive must asks you out otherwise he's rejecting you. Men are not obligated to ask you out, especially if you are not making any effort to court them.

Trying to find positives.

My SO not being open minded enough.

I said men who are looking.



I'm not entitled to men asking me out regardless of whether or not they find me attractive. I merely pointed out that when a man is in the market for a woman, in a society where men are expected to do the asking and he declines to ask a woman out, it is a form of rejection. I am not claiming that all men are always looking for a mate at all times and are thus always rejecting women by not asking them out. I am speaking exclusively of men who are actively looking for mates or who actively desire one.

You can just disagree, you don't have to accuse her of typical ''Woman's logic''. We female autistics are not plugged in to the female mother Borg, that's actually the big clue that we are autistic.It's not rejection individually, but when you keep hearing how many women guys ask out, but nobody has asked you out for years,it does feel like a rejection.

I would like to know more about the showing initial interest before being approached. I have only recently learnt that this exists and believe my lack of it is why I'm not asked out. I think it also contributes to why Aspie males ask out a lot of women who say no, they are not following these signs either.

I have never asked anyone out, I can't read people at all. I would without doubt find that I had asked out a work colleague's husband and no one would believe I hadn't known and I would be hated. I also cannot think of any example of this in a film or book that does not imply the woman is desperate or psycho or arrogant and vain.

Yes, this has definitely been me, I've improved a bit but probably not enough.

Yet you (female) agree with Chronos (female)'s reasoning yet me(male) and Sabreclaw (male) , 314(male) and perhaps most guys are not seeing her reasoning logical here. Is that a coincidence? Or maybe because each gender is plugged to their own mother Borg? This happens a lot in boards, and you surely noticed it.




Men are no longer asking women out explitically like you see in the movies, especially in real life, don't you know this thing is going extinct?




Where?! In which films? In which novels? Name me few.... because personally I have never seen or read a such implication in any media.

Understanding situation in the moment and knowing when to take a chance. I'm disinclined to ask women out based on nothing/zero signals and it appears that women are taught to avoid giving men any signals so what happens is I never ask women out.

It's giving the guy signals that you like him. I think maybe multiple small signals at first and see if he gives signals back which will just be smiles/friendliness/he may ask you questions that show interest. If you have a good feeling then asking questions about him is a clear sign of interest. Like questions about his life, what does he value in women, stuff like that. Asking for casual advice also give him a chance to say flattering things. If everything seems great then mentioning you are single is probably clearest sign of being interested in a guy, outside of asking him out.

If he is married then he shouldn't be flirty/really flattering with you.


Books for women like The Rules teach women that sending signals are bad and must be avoided. And that men should have to ask without any signals at all, otherwise there can be no chances of a lasting quality relationship.


I detect some very small signs but always there is plausible deniability so it could just be me mis-reading.


I can say it definitely feels useless if they are giving me no signs.


Is it still a form of rejection if women are actively avoiding giving any signs that they're interested in a guy? When asking out a girl completely out of the blue it can be considered sexual harassment. I am actively looking for mate but will not spend time on those who appear to have no interest in me. Seems stupid to try in those cases especially if it can just as likely lead to very serious trouble with the law. It's evident that numbers of women who would potentially be interested will be well below 1 in 100 for most men so it's a needle in a haystack type of search when there are no signs or rhyme or reason going on. It's like trying with women who are already taken and are very happy with current relationship. What I will see with them would be the very same clear lack of interest.

Boo is right, if a girl gives me obvious flattering signs I'm definitely going to think about it. It is kind of like mining/oil & natural gas extraction. They do not try literally everywhere, they look for signs that the thing sought for is present.

I wish I could as much as tell what is the hardest thing for me, because I don't even have any kind of meaningful experience to answer such a question. I'm still at square one, so all I know is that it's proving to be extremely hard, if not impossible, for me to get myself into any situation in life in which I actually have any business trying to date. At the very least, I'd have to become independent, which seems well beyond my reach.

I remember vividly Fnord's answer when someone, at that time a girl about fourteen, asked on these forums what was an appropriate age to start dating: "Old enough you don't need to ask for your parents' permission". There can be little doubt your parents are under no obligation to let you have that kind of inherently adult experiences while you still need their support. Mine, surely enough, never did.

Years passed. That person is now a young adult woman, and her latest posts confirm, as you'd definitely expect, that she already has way more experience than I could ever dream of, even if it doesn't feel like a lot to her and she wants advice from people much more experienced yet. Meanwhile, I'm more than twice her age and, far from getting closer to being dateable, I only seem to keep lagging farther and farther behind what you need to have achieved this late in life in order to be considered dating material.

I guess natural selection sucks from the point of view of the losers and it's useless to be bitter about it.

Keeping my relationship a secret from my mom, who to this day, refuses to allow me to pursue one.