Its just so frustrating

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That is exactly imposing your interests on them and not respecting their interests. Telling someone what they want to do is pointless and stupid and they should go to college instead and pushing them when they tell you they aren't interested in it...is very much imposing your interests.

Pushing religious law on them is also a big NO, either you have to find someone who has the same beliefs or respect their different beliefs.




Also yeah what kind of a potential girlfriend wants to hear you go on about your exes, when you should be getting to know them? You should be asking them questions about their life and interests and such not demanding they explain the behavior or your exes. That just shows you still have a lot of unresolved baggage that could get in the way of a new relationship. Exes are certainly not a good topic to bring up when meeting potential dates/girlfriends.



Also even if you don't force girls to do your hobbies you clearly described that you've tried forcing college and your religious views on them, so basically forcing important life choices on them.

And so, while going out with this ex you describe she constantly took you out to go do things, but otherwise it was sitting at home? See that is part of the problem you expect the girlfriend to do everything while you don't really lift a finger in the relationship. Why weren't you taking her out at all? Of course you should have been taking her to places you enjoy. At least in that relationship, perhaps you have worked on that since than and know you should reciprocate more. But yeah you have to put things into it to...not just expect it to last no matter what.

If one person or multiple people with contact with each othrr made the assumption that you had never had a girlfriend as opposed to you are just single at the time, I wouldn't think much of it because everyone comes to incorrect conclusions sometimes for various reasons and that false conclusion can propegate within their social group.

But if multiple people who have no contact with each other all come to that conclusion independantly, I would guess that either they are making assumptions by extrapolating on things they already know about you or you are somehow unintentionally communicating it to them.

For example you had said you spent time in India. Are you Indian? If so, an American who knows that arranged marriages are the norm in India may assume you have never dated due to cultural reasons. Just like you are an Adventist so someone who knows about your religion might assume you don't eat pork.

-Ok so a girl on a dating site assumed you were similar to the character sheldon, that doesn't mean they think you are less than human..it means they think maybe you don't get as attached to people emotionally, which that is true of some people on the spectrum. I doubt it was meant as some terrible insult against autistics everywhere.

-I didn't say you have a problem with women having higher social status...I am saying it seems like you'd only be interested in women with higher perceived social status than yourself. As in you would likely turn down an interested women if you didn't think she could raise your social status. Basically you care more about their status than the actual person.

-I didn't say you don't have the capacity for caring for others, I was simply suggesting you should think about what it is you have to offer to a potential girlfriend...instead of just thinking of all the things you want from them. Like its not enough to say 'well once you establish a relationship I will change'. Also though taking care of someone when they are sick is not the same thing as being present and showing affection in a relationship.

-Also in the church group it sounds like you sort of turned a positive conversation into a downer, like the woman was trying to say something positive about her relationship and then you started going on about your relationships failing. basically seems like the time and place was not really appropriate for that. Its not usually a good idea in social meetings like that to respond to someones positive tangent with a bunch of negativity. I mean I get maybe you thought someone there might have something helpful to say about your situation but it may have come off a little rude or out of place.

As for the woman you talked to on facebook, it was probably taking things to far to question her so much about why it didn't occur to her you may have had a relationship in the past. Sounds like she literally just didn't think about it...and then you demand she tell you why she thinks you didn't have a past girlfriend...like its some kind of terrible offense she committed towards you. Maybe you didn't seem like someone very interested in romance, and she was just surprised but seems like you kind of tried to make them feel guilty. I do hope you dropped it once they said 'I stand corrected'.

Also though complaining about having no friends or a girlfriend is not a very good way to make friends or get a girlfriend. I mean it would not be too direct to ask your aquantinces if they know anyone who may be interested in dating you...but don't ask by complaining. I mean people aren't going to want to introduce you to single women they know if you come of complaining and negative you need to advertise positive things like fun activities you'd like to do, passions you have and such thing that will make people interested in you. Not a sob story about your past relationships falling apart and how miserable you feel. Basically you have to say and do things that draw people towards you, not things that push them away, negativity is a big thing that pushes people away.

Also, don't just depend on others to introduce you try and talk to people on your own, make an online dating profile, maybe try and find common interest groups outside of church.

But it proves the point, being dateable doesn't have to raise your social status, and having a high social status doesn't make you dateable, these are two different things. You're considered undateable because of your way of thinking, and I'm trying to show you where you're making mistakes in it, so that you could try to change it (of course if it's possible and it's not the result of your brain permanent malfunction, but in theory it should be possible, 've been there, 've done that).



Then why are you so obsessed about your social status? What's your purpose in it? Do you want higher social status to be considered more dateable? If not, what do you need it for? If the former, when you want a girlfriend to raise your social status, in fact you want a girlfriend to be able to get a better girlfriend. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense, because there are many other ways to raise your social status without creating relationship.



So the solution is to find someone with whom you could work on something revolutionary, you will socialize and become famous at the same time



Sorry, I wasn't very precise. I'm not saying you don't feel any emotions, you just seem to misinterpret them, and rationalize everything in a wrong way. It's obvious you feel some needs, but it's definitely not the need of being in relationship with someone, instead you have some needs that from your point of view can be fulfilled in relationship, so you THINK you need relationship, but it's not the same thing. It's the difference between thinking about getting A girl for something you want, and wanting THE girl.



But there's a difference between wanting friends in general and wanting particular friend. When you feel the former, you're probably just feeling lonely and want A friend to not feel so lonely, but when you want THE friend, it's because you think s/he is a wonderful person with whom you WANT to share your time/interests. In the former case potential friend won't feel any connection with you, because you can switch to another friend easily, and you won't even notice the difference, while friendship is about feeling special that's mutual for both sides.



But you don't see, that being in relationship is not about liking nor pitying someone, it's about loving that particular person. Of course you don't need to fall in love at once, but it must lurks on the horizon, and it can't be the black hole's horizon



No, I don't think it's your problem, although that MIss Nebraska DOES sound suspicious



Once again it's rationalization, noticing you have something in common is purely intellectual thing, and it won't suffice to create successful relationship. There's a possibility that it can, but you must make sure that the other side sees it in exactly the same way. In other words, you must find someone who will want to be with you for purely intellectual reasons, just as you.



That's the reason why people doesn't think you're dateable, it has nothing to do with social status, but with ability to love. They don't think you're capable of loving not because you have AS, but because of things you're saying to them, the way you're saying it. You should ask yourself have you ever been in love?If not then why? If your brain is wired like that, you could at least try to stretch it. If your brain is capable of loving, it means that you haven't met the right person yet, and the only thing you can do is to meet and make friends with as many girls as possible. Obsessing about relationship won't help with that, quite the contrary. And you need to change the poor impression you're making, but for that you must listen and hear more carefully what people around you are telling you.



Well, she was right. By asking girl out you show interest towards her, and it's first important step. Don't expect that anyone will ask you out, because you're making an impression that you're incapable of love, and asking you is a waste of time. If you're really interested in some girl don't think and ask her out. If it's against your emotional needs, you may require some therapy first.



But having something in common is not enough to create true relationship. At least you must feel respect for her, and avoid being manipulative, because it won't get you anywhere.

I'm overwhelmed by the amount of discussion that happened while I was writing this 80 sorry if it's no longer relevant.

I was referring to an aspie version of it. The aspie version would be to try to get her to discuss a specific math problem I am obsessing about, or, at least, do so indirectly by thinking "if she studies math she would be able to help me with my work few years from now". But I am not doing either of these two things. I am simply trying to raise her status. And that is no longer aspie-specific. I mean, the context of the reply was her mentioning her boyfriend making her go to look at some fancy rocks or whatever. Well that doesn't look like what I am doing, since he wasn't raising her status he was just using her as part of his interest in rocks.

The other thing to take into account is that there are NT-s that pressure their partner to do things, and in fact they can be a lot worse than me. Take for example my last ex. I was trying to get her to study math but she kept telling me that she is happy with her career as is, and her career was sewing things on her own and selling them. Even though I didn't think much of sewing, I didn't ask her to give it up either: my attitude was "you can sew if you want to, but you should also do math, because math is the only thing that counts, but sure you can sew too". Now, compare this to the guy she had prior to me. That guy was actually pushing her to give up sewing; and no, he didn't want her to do math, he just wanted her to be stay at home girlfriend since he is rich and he can support her. So don't you think he is worse? And by the way he wasn't an aspie.



Once again, that is not aspie-specific either.



I agree I should stop doing this. I was simply admitting what I been doing in the past, and I can't change the past. But I don't plan on doing it in future.



Its not that I don't want to contribute, but rather I have a hard time with initiative. I mean, by refraining from going to places I would go when I am single, I am hurting myself too. It is just that I find it too awkward to bring myself and say "lets do such and such" unless she specifically asks me. Even better example would be a girl who thoght I forget to eat, but actually I don't forget to eat, I am just not knowing how to make an initiative to eat when I am in front of her.

But like I said, the fact that I had those issues in the past doesn't mean I have to have them in the future. I will try to force myself to make more initiative if/when I get another girlfriend, particularly since I remember how it ruined my past relationship.



But the point is that I DO want social attachments, in fact the very thing I am so miserable about is that I don't have anyone around who would be there for me. Don't you think its frustrating if here I am starving and people think I don't have a need for food? I mean thats probably one of the biggest reasons I am osolated: people assume I don't have social needs when I do.



Okay, like I said, I had girlfriends before, so it doesn't have to be all theoretical. The fact is that I have dated some of them that I perceived to have low social status, the most clear example is the girl I dated last November who is sickly and lives with her mom (she is in her 30-s but she lives with her mom due to being sickly). The reason for this is that by the virtue of simply being with someone my social status would go up -- even if that other person's social status is below mine. Thats because social status is not just "whom" I am with but also whether or not I am with someone on the first place. Kind of like going to Harvard makes me look better than going to Tennessee State, but going to Tennessee State is better than not going anywhere at all.

Its also true there are "some" types of girls I won't date -- for example, I won't date black girls -- but I think its more about comfort zone than social status, since I won't be dating black girls even if my social status was high. The best way to put it is like this: what is better, to get three Bs or to get two As and 1 C? In terms of GPA the option with 2 As and 1 C is better. But in terms of a comfort zone the option with 3 Bs is better: even though in my current school I get mostly As, I am pretty used to Bs in the past, so its nothing drastic, but I got only four Cs so a C is like a disaster. So I guess being single is analogous to having 3 Bs while dating a black girl is analogous to two As and 1 C: the black girl would probably raize my "overall" status, since people would change their mind about my being undatable, but there would be one "aspect" of the status that would be on a new low that I am just not ready to deal with.

In any case, the most important thing is that its not "only" about the status. If I was failing all my classes, then grades would be all I would be talking about. But that wouldn't mean that I think life is all about grades, as evident from the fact that my current grades, which are mostly As, don't make me feel like a happy person. It is simply that I am focusing on whatever is "bad": if my grades are bad and social status is good, I would be focusing on my grades, if my grades are good and social status is bad, I would be focusing on my social status. And I admit this is not the most healthy way of dealing with things: big part of what ended last two of my three long-term relationships is that, once I was with them for several months, I took it for granted that my "problem" with single status was solved, so I started focusing on the other "problem", my physics career, and ignoring them. So I need to have a healthy balance and focus on everything, not just where I have a crisis. And that would mean focusing on both career and relationship, regardless of how well I do in each part at a given point in time, as well as focusing on aspects of the relationship other than status, even if I feel like my status is low or whatever. So that is one of the things I have to work on.

But still point remains: I don't think that everything is about status, even if it sounds like I do (yes I have other types of problems, the ones I just described, so I am not saying I am perfect; I am just saying that status-obsession isn't the biggest one of them). LIke I pointed out in my other threads, I want an emotional support from my girlfriend as well. And emotional support has nothing to do with status, particularly if she is supportive in one on one setting when there is nobody to overhear. And in fact I find emotional support to be even more important, and vital, than the status, even though it doesn't sound this way.

Let me give you another example. Ever since I was a little kid, I wanted to be a physicist for two reasons: I wanted to understand paradoxes of quantum physics, and I wanted to become famous. My parents were always telling me that when I talk about "famous" part of my dream, I am invalidating the part about being interested in science; and I was always telling them that its both, and its true its both: I know for a fact I am honest in both accounts, even if for others its hard to believe. Well in the same way with relationships its also two things: I want an emotional support and I want social status. And I am also honest in both accounts.



I am more than willing to do that, but can you help me out here? Like how is it possible to think about what to offer to a potential girlfriend if I don't know what her needs are? I mean I *can* think of what to offer to some of the girls I know, but they probably don't want to date me, so that would be useless. But if I am thinking what to offer to some abstract girl whom I am yet to meet, how would I do it?



But we had other types of conversations in that same group that were negative. For example, in the last Bible study she asked us to remember the times in our life when we just didn't know what to do, and I brought up the time when they were trying to expell me from graduate school for not having a thesis advisor, and the last moment someone agreed to be my advisor and saved me from being expelled. Now she DID listen to this one. Or are you saying that its okay when everyone talks about negatives, but its not okay when someone talks about positives and I respond with negatives?



If she didn't think about it, why would she be so surprised? So she reached a strong opinion that I was always single (as evident from her surprise when she learned otherwise) despite the fact that -- as you say -- she didn't think about it.

But I agree with you she didn't think. That is what frustrates me the most: when people reach strong opinions about the topics they didn't think about. If only they were to think through their opinions, I might be able to challenge them, but when they reach them without thinking then how can I even challenge them?

I mean, thats what first impression is all about: nobody can "think" about first impression since it takes only few seconds to make one, yet some studies show that first impression can last years. And that puts me into the predicament that I am: people come up with some opinions of me without even thinking, and I can't do anything about it, and thats what keeps me lonely.



That touches upon the other question I have: people told me that I can't be happy with someone unless I am happy with myself. But what if the source of my unhappinness is htat I am single? THen said unhappinness won't be relevant any more once I am dating someone. So why would they not want to introduce me in this case? Is it because they assume that I will continue to be negative and ruin the life of whoever they introduce me to? But what exactly would I be negative about if I would be presumably dating them?



I am on okcupid and christiandatingforfree but nobody responds to my profile.

Actually in many ways if they have contact with each other its worse, because then I can't do anything to stop the false rumor from propagating, but if they have no contact with each other then I can learn not to repeat the mistakes that I made.

Although I guess the option with them having a contact with each other might be better in one particular way: namely I can "solve" the problem by transferring to a different school. But I wouldn't do that, I been transferring around enough.



Actually I am neither Indian nor Adventist!

I came from Russia, I am of Jewish origin, but I decided to believe in Jesus on my own, so I look for sects that combine aspects of Judaism and Christianity; Adventist sect is one of them, but not the only one: I also sometimes go to United Church of God (which I didn't join either) and sometimes to Messianic groups; so I never became Adventist. You are right in assuming I don't eat pork though -- in fact thats one of the main reasons I like Adventists is that they don't eat pork either.

As far as India goes, I came to India to do a postdoc because I couldn't get postdocs elsewhere and I was desperate. But after spending few years in India I decided to solve my problem differently: I came back to the US to do second Ph.D. (my first ph.d. was in physics, the second is in math, both in the US): its the postdoc that I can't get in the US but I can get into Ph.D. program. I have dual citizenship of Russia and US so I don't need to be in school to be in the US. But since I am desperate to do theoretical physics and "not" do any other job, its my own choice to either get a postdoc or stay in school, and both coming to India and doing second ph.d. in the US are the consequences of that choice.

But you see, I weren't mad at either of your assumptions: because you see both of them are the result of my own choices. But when people make assumptions about my Asperger, which isn't my choice, that what makes me upset.

But how do people know my way of thinking unless they talk to me about this? I admit, I talked to a couple of people about this, but not too many. Or are you saying those two people might pass it to the rest and/or people can deduce my way of thinking from the way I act? As far as the way I act goes, the only thing they see is that I am always by myself. Or are you sayign they can decude that I am by myself probably because of lack of confidence, and lack of confidence is probably due to the thoughts I described here since I am not the only one having those kinds of thoughts?



I think it has a lot more to do with a psychological damage that people inflicted on me than the way my grain works. But yes I do want to change. In fact the other way in which people hurt me is when they assume I can't change -- which is probably why they ostracize me -- but I feel like I would change if only I was given a chance.



If you want A because it helps you get B, then I can ask you why do you want B, and if you want B because it helps you get C, I can ask you why do you want C. So, at the end, you will reach some item that you want for its own sake, irrespective of anything else. Now, it doesn't have to be just one item, it can be several items. So what if I want two separate things for their own sake: one is the status and the other is emotional support. But when I lack both of them at the same time, and I feel like there is logical connection between the CAUSES of my lacking those two items, then the pain I feel due to lack of one makes the pain that I feel due to the lack of the other even stronger. But those are still two different kinds of pain, that simply occur at the same time and make each other stronger.



That is easier said than done. In fact, the reason I am not a professor yet is that I couldn't get anyone in the physics field interested in my work. I guess its possible that I could get fellow students interested more easily than professors since things like "inertia of thinking" won't stand in a way. But how many girls are there in math and physics departments? Not that many; and if they don't come up to talk to me I sort of don't have where to start.



But the same can be said about any other need. Like you don't have a need to eat, you just have a need to stop feeling hungry and also a need to experience some sort of taste, and both needs can be fulfilled through eating.



I see your point here, but in order to like some girl in particular I have to know things about her. And thats why I am saying if girls were to approach me and talk to me, I would have found out things about their life that would make me like some of them more than others. But when they don't approach and talk to me then of course its all in abstract.

Let me give you an example. So 10 years ago I got into a relationship because I was desperate to have a girlfriend. Then I was taking care of her when she was sick and this created a new kind of bond, the kind I never anticipated. Then once she was no longer sick we started having fights and I was regretting I got into a relationship with her, yet I stayed with her out of pity because I was remembering her being sick and didn't want to betray her.

Now I agree that neither the feelings that I had at the beginning nor at the end are true love; but the point is that some type of feeling evolved into a completely different type of feeling. So how do you know its not possible for it to evolve into love as well in case of a different girl?



I know that. But the point is that being lonely and pitying someone are two completely different feelings. So if I am capable of having both of them, then maybe I am capable of feeling love as well? Being lonely is one extreme (its all about me and not them) feeling pity is the opposite extreme (all about them and not me) a genuine love is in the middle, and can be produced by a combination of those two extremes.



Actually I did, in fact, date Miss Nebraska. She didn't like it when I posted the link to her page online in the past so I will send you a PM with that link.



But like I said, you don't fall in love all at once, you start somewhere and then things develop. Having things in common would be a good thing to start with, wouldnt' it.

Also I didn't say its purely intellectual either: if that was purely intellectual, why would I be talking about loneliness?

I guess if you put different things that we said side by side it was something like this:

ME: I want to be with her because I am lonely
YOU: Loneliness is not a good reason because it won't be anything specific about her but about anyone in general
ME: Okay, what is specific about her is religious beliefs
YOU: But religious beliefs is intellectual, not emotional

But you see, if you add the two together then loneliness would be emotional, religious beliefs would be about her, so I get both. I guess they aren't connected to each other, but its a good place to start, isn't it?



By "things I am saying to them" are you referring to my questions "why don't people like me", since thats what you quoted? Why is being concerned about not being liked implies inability to love? Why isn't it possible to have many different feelings at the same time?



Well, I started to obsess about having a girlfriend in Fall 2001. But been romanticizing about two girls prior to that: back in 1994, when I was in junior high, I been romanticizing about one of my classmates for the whole year (but I didn't do anything about it because back then I was all about math and physics and I thought that anything else is a disraction of it) and then, in the spring 2001, I was romanticizing about one of the girls in the Asperger mailing list (that girl was 7 years older than me and she was engaged, but that didn't matter because, once again, I weren't looking for a relationship and weren't even thinking in those terms).

Now, I know you are going to say that romanticizing about someone isn't love either. But, like I said, this illustrates that my mind is capable of different extremes: one extreme being romanticizing about someone without any intention of dating them, and the other extreme is wanting to date them just to be in a relationship. But that means that my mind should also be capable of combining both things and that combination would be love.

The reason I never been in love is simply that I am socially isolated so the opportunity for love never presented itself. I mean, if you are talking about real love, then you have to know the other person well enough to love them; and if nobody talks to me and I am all isolated, I don't have a lot of opportunities for this to happen.



What should i do to change it? And how long would it take for it to change?



But you see, that is PRECISELY what bothers me: that people don't think I am capable of love. So I want them to stop making that assumption.



How was I manipulative?

I need some help, I can't post a reply with quotes here, I just get an endless loop of captchas, and it resets everything I've written to pristine state. I've made sure to not paste anything, and it still doesn't work. I can't even cancel the reply, any idea what's wrong?