Some questions for Incels after the Toronto van attack

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What’s confusing about what I said?

I’m talking life experience here.

Is their a movement concensus on utilizing prostitutes/sex workers? You'd think a lot of these guys could get what they need from a pro/massage parlour or w/e.

Governments, by nature, never miss a chance to expand their control over the private lives of their citizens. Terrorism has made fo sar a great excuse for them to get their dirty hands on every means of communication they can, and incel terrorism won’t be any different. True, determined criminals will always find a way to carry out their plans, but the freedom of law-abiding citizens will certainly be curtailed when we’re forbidden to use some technology or other, or to visit some part or other of the Internet to keep our privacy, in case we’re incel terrorists planning our next crimes.

Muslims have already been made into scapegoats by plenty of Western people, and all sorts of institutions discriminate blatantly against them. It’s no stretch of the imagination that government surveillance of private communications probably targets them more than other people. There’s no reason why the same won’t happen to incels from now on, whether we “identify” with this label or not. Someone was recently arrested on a plane for writing differential equations, which another passenger mistook for Arabic writing, and therefore a sign that he was probably a terrorist. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone were arrested soon for drawing a single heart. Worse yet, a comic strip like this combines both lonely hearts and math, including differential equations, so anyone caught looking at it must be very suspicious:


Like The_Face_of_Boo said, and just like you, I’d rather be safe than sorry. But I get it doesn’t concern you and you dismiss it as “disingenuous”, which would definitely be considered an insult and, hence, against WrongPlanet’s rules if other people, like probably myself, said it. Therefore, I accept there’s no more discussing this issue with you.



I really doubt that. If I thought getting laid or being in relationships were the only worthwhile things in life, I’d have no reason not to commit suicide long ago, but they’re certainly the only things I want in and of themselves as far as human interaction is concerned. Anything else is either a means to another end or a nuisance I simply have to put up with for the time being, maybe for life. I’ve never actually wanted friends, but I was constantly made to feel guilty as a kid for not having them, which, as you can expect, led me to try desperately to make them without knowing how, and hence to make an annoyance of myself and to invite even more abuse than I otherwise would have.

Only shamefully late in life did I learn how important male friendship is to prove your manliness, and therefore how unlikely you are to attract a healthy and interesting woman if you’re unable to make male friends, which involves earning their respect. With this in mind, I do wish to improve myself and make as much progress as I can in what’s left of my life, even though there’s no way in hell I can catch up with those who didn’t waste as many precious years as I did some way or other, and hence it’d be completely out of touch with reality to believe I have a chance to ever get laid or have a girlfriend, let alone in time to have children with her, which is my real priority. However, I still have no desire to make friends, even if I actually could ever be good enough for that. If I were to make them, it’d be only as a deeply resented duty, because I had no other choice to pursue the goals I’m actually interested in, and it wouldn’t work anyway, because the friendship would be false. This is probably yet another reason to disqualify me as a dating material. In fact, since I’d fail to earn the status of a male worthy of being sexually active, I’d only expect any potential non-friends to tacitly—or even not so tacitly—remind me that I’d better stay away from women or else.

Luckily for me, there’s more to life than getting close to other people.



So if you’re alone, you’re noöne. I like that saying.



I wonder how you can do all that. I’d expect to be arrested in short order if I tried it, or at least to get a fist or two in my face.



Maybe if they can afford it.

Let’s see for how long I can post something like this, given I could be an incel terrorist using the encryption to plan some crime with other incel terrorists:

You and I often don't agree on things, Goldfish, but I believe you're intelligent. What you've said here is simply untrue. Men are on incel boards talking about Rodger and Minassian as heroes and role models, heaping praise on them and urging others to carry out similar attacks.

To claim that you can speak with authority for the intent of every man all the time is disingenuous in the extreme.

Oh look, another stupid strawman argument. Let's ignore the phrase "in many ways," and completely leave out the rest of the statement, so we can get people who may just be skimming the thread to believe I'm calling men nobodies if they're not in relationships.

Your intellectual dishonesty is unpleasant.

The overall viewpoint among incel communities is that suggesting they go to prostitutes and sex workers is an insult, as they should not have to pay for what other men can get for free.

The overall viewpoint among sex workers is that they don't want to be anywhere near hostile men whose inner lives are consumed by rape fantasies, revenge porn, and hatred.

Rape fantasies are actually way more common among women than men.

Reported.

I can't speak for them as I don't fraternise with them, but for me personally that wouldn't suffice. I find the concept of hiring a sex worker akin to paying someone to be your friend. They don't really want to be there, so it's humiliating imo to only be able to get your needs fulfilled by paying someone like it's a chore. I want the real thing, not some paid actress.

What do you think should be done about these men? Do you have any sympathy for their plight at all?

Sex workers are human beings too and should not have absorb these men's misogyny so they won't go out and murder people. What the men need is male friendship and lots of therapy. A sex worker is not a therapist, nor should one treat them that way. It's not their job to "fix" these men either, or to take their bitterness and hatred so other women don't have to. Their job is dangerous enough as it is, we (the rest of women, and the rest of society) should not use sex workers as shields against these hateful, potentially violent men.

Once again, it is not on women to fix these guys. No women, not even sex workers, can do it. It's on themselves to fix themselves. If you read the incel forums many of them are against sex workers anyway, because they think they are even less human than non-sex-working women. They are the lowest of the "roasties" (their terminology for women, a reference to our genitals being "worn out" by sex.) According to these guys, we are all sluts, but sex workers are the dirtiest of all the sluts and any "incel" who tries to get out of his situation that way is relentlessly mocked.

That's what I've been saying all along!

It's THEIR responsibility to change their own situation.

There is a big difference between fantasizing about being "ravished" and fantasizing about attacking someone else and taking their power away. That is an important distinction to be made. The women who fantasize about being raped don't actually want to be attacked, usually it's a fantasy of their existing partner being so caught up in desire for them that they "lose control", it's not quite the same as violent stranger rape (very few women fantasize about that.) But men who fantasize about violence against women sometimes do want to act it out. Most serial rapists who've been caught and interviewed will admit that they started out with fantasies about hurting women, and escalated their behaviour over time into real violence when the fantasies no longer gave them enough pleasure.

Other men should not have to absorb their hate, either.

By the way, do you advocate forcing therapy on them? If so, how do you decide who should have that therapy forced on them? Would you have it forced on me, too?



If anyone “uses” a sex worker, it’s her client, not the rest of society. Are you saying incels should be forbidden to hire sex workers?



It’s not on other men, either, unless the “fix” you have in mind is to give them a beating so they learn their place.



Then other men can’t, either.



I don’t even know where those forums are, let alone their terminology, nor do I have anything against sex workers; in fact, I think they’re interesting people and would like to get to know at least one, but I certainly don’t want to hire them. I have much better uses for money than paying someone to pretend to want to have sex with me, thank you very much.

EDIT -- Grammar.

Last edited by Spiderpig on 01 May 2018, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.