Statistics that makes me enraged

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The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 9:24 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t approach, but I don’t really like being approached, either. I think it’s best to develop friendships first that could lead to something else.

Doing a cold approach would be hard from a social perspective. Being weird and awkward wouldn’t usually work out very well in such a scenario.

I’ve pretty much always had friendships first. I’ve never accepted a date situation from a stranger. They were usually weirdos or, at least, appeared to be.

A weird, quirky friend is cool and interesting, but a weird, quirky stranger could be threatening.

“No, I don’t want to go for a ride with you on your bicycle.” LOL I was 15. Geez!

Good tip: Don’t ask women you don’t know to go for a ride on a one-seater bicycle. (I’m not sure how that would’ve worked. It didn’t have those trick bar things on the back wheels.) :P

One can find loads of practical wisdom on WP.

If you're starting from a place of not having any friends of the opposite gender whom you'd consider a romantic prospect, and your priority is getting a romantic relationship, the friends first thing isn't the best strategy, because there's just so much that can go wrong with it. It's especially unappealing to guys, because we're the ones who are going to have to figure out how to go about elevating the friendship to a relationship, and risking an awkward and painful rejection in the process.

The friends first thing can work if a relationship isn't really a priority and you want to make new friends and just happen to meet someone you vibe with, but for those of us who are looking for a relationship specifically, and are less interested in friends, the friends first strategy brings with it a lot of things that can go wrong.

If I'm going to be rejected, I'd rather it be by someone whom I have minimal emotional investment in rather than someone I've spent months getting to know and like.

I would agree that cold-approaching is generally untruthful, and should only be done by those who are ok with being rejected a lot.

I think if we're talking a real-life setting, like an interest group or something, the sweet spot for trying to see if there's any romantic potential there is after youve established m rapport with the person and they have a base level of comfort or trust around you, and after you've gotten to know a little bit about them, but before you become close friends. Probably the transitional period from acquaintance to friend is a good time to ask I think, but it depends on a variety of things.

Personally, I probably wouldn't ask a woman out unless I perceived that she might be interested in me in that way, because I'm at a point where rejection really hurts, and it'd only be worth risking being hurt like that if I thought there was a chance that it might result in a favourable outcome.

But I'm not meeting any new women anyway, so this is all hypothetical.



Last edited by The Grand Inquisitor on 02 Dec 2019, 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 9:29 pm

The "friends thing" will help a man understand women better. No doubt about that.



The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 9:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The "friends thing" will help a man understand women better. No doubt about that.

Could do, but I think being friends with someone you really wanted to date would be super difficult if that option wasn't on the table. I'd probably benefit from accruing more platonic female friends, but I don't really give myself any opportunities to meet people, and I wouldn't know where to meet like-minded women.



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02 Dec 2019, 9:41 pm

I've had quite a few Platonic friends whom I wanted to date. And it was frustrating.

But I did learn a lot about how to relate to women. I had to learn all this in order to keep my relationships from dying a certain death.



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02 Dec 2019, 9:53 pm

I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.


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kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 10:07 pm

It’s because of our society. Our social mores.



The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 11:34 pm

martianprincess wrote:
I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.

In short, because they aren't generally required to in order to have a love life. I'm sure a good portion of men wouldn't ask women out either if they didn't have to in order to have a love life, but we do.

If I never ask a woman out or make the first move, I can almost guarantee that I will be single forever. If a woman never asks a man out or makes the first move, it generally won't matter because at some point, a man will ask her out.



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03 Dec 2019, 8:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've had quite a few Platonic friends whom I wanted to date. And it was frustrating.

But I did learn a lot about how to relate to women. I had to learn all this in order to keep my relationships from dying a certain death.


I went through this with my female ex-friends. One was polyamorous but I didn’t qualify and the other was in denial about her love for hyper aggressive alpha males.



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03 Dec 2019, 9:05 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s because of our society. Our social mores.


That sounds fascinating - could you elaborate a bit? Thanks! :D



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03 Dec 2019, 9:07 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
martianprincess wrote:
I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.

In short, because they aren't generally required to in order to have a love life. I'm sure a good portion of men wouldn't ask women out either if they didn't have to in order to have a love life, but we do.

If I never ask a woman out or make the first move, I can almost guarantee that I will be single forever. If a woman never asks a man out or makes the first move, it generally won't matter because at some point, a man will ask her out.


Very true and accurate. :thumright:



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03 Dec 2019, 9:41 am

It's pretty simple, actually.

Women are reluctant to "make the first move" because it is seen as being rather risky to their dignity.

Because of notions which continue to this day--notions which are not necessarily actually true. There is the sense that a woman who "makes the first move" is somehow "aggressive" and "acquisitive." And not "modest" enough.

Within the vast majority of societies, even "primitive" ones, I find that if a man waits for a woman to "make the first move," the man will inevitably be "left hanging."

Like I said, I am a man of below-average height, and "cute" sorts of looks. And socially awkward. I've never, in my 40 or so years of "active dating life" been approached by a woman for the purpose of any sort of "date or "hookup" or "wanting to get to know you better." It just has never happened. I've always had to "make the first move."



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03 Dec 2019, 9:47 am

:roll: It never ceases to amaze me how many men presume to 'know' what motivates women, when women themselves don't even seem to know.  If men truly knew what motivated women, there would be no lonely men, and no man would ever again complain that women pay no attention to them.


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kraftiekortie
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03 Dec 2019, 9:52 am

Women are motivated by different things, obviously. They run the gamut, really. I cannot presume to make a generalization about women....and apply that generalization to one woman.

It is still RARE for a woman to blatantly initiate things when it comes to dating and relationships with men. The Proof is in the Pudding.



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03 Dec 2019, 11:26 am

This is really simple (the advice, not the actual “work” involved):

Stop overthinking this. Start finding opportunities to socialize more and make friends. How could that hurt? Maybe you could develop a relationship with a friend or a friend of a friend. Sometimes friends set other friends up. I actually dated someone in this manner.

If you have no friends, a woman might wonder why. That’s sort of a red flag.

Perhaps put a relationship on the back burner for now and just work on putting yourself out there instead. Maybe join some group centered around a special interest.



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03 Dec 2019, 11:33 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
This is really simple (the advice, not the actual “work” involved):

Stop overthinking this. Start finding opportunities to socialize more and make friends. How could that hurt? Maybe you could develop a relationship with a friend or a friend of a friend. Sometimes friends set other friends up. I actually dated someone in this manner.

If you have no friends, a woman might wonder why. That’s sort of a red flag.

Perhaps put a relationship on the back burner for now and just work on putting yourself out there instead. Maybe join some group centered around a special interest.


My attempts to socialize and make new friends this year have only ended in failure. Even when I tried to join special interests groups, I wasn’t accepted. The pain has made me feel hopeless.



TwilightPrincess
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03 Dec 2019, 11:38 am

Marknis wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This is really simple (the advice, not the actual “work” involved):

Stop overthinking this. Start finding opportunities to socialize more and make friends. How could that hurt? Maybe you could develop a relationship with a friend or a friend of a friend. Sometimes friends set other friends up. I actually dated someone in this manner.

If you have no friends, a woman might wonder why. That’s sort of a red flag.

Perhaps put a relationship on the back burner for now and just work on putting yourself out there instead. Maybe join some group centered around a special interest.


My attempts to socialize and make new friends this year have only ended in failure. Even when I tried to join special interests groups, I wasn’t accepted. The pain has made me feel hopeless.


Trying leads to possible success.

Not trying leads to definite failure.