Do women simply just dislike Aspie men?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Apr 2020, 4:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When examining the post histories of several men who have complained about lack of popularity with women, one under-riding theme seems to play out: Men who can't get dates with women also seem to have few (if any) male friends.
That's so surprising to find out on a forum dedicated for autistics; Captain obvious!
I've noticed this in real life, too. Men who have wives and/or girlfriends also seem to have an abundance of male friends; and men who cannot get along with other men usually don't get along well with women, either.  Yes, it's obvious ... now.  It just never occurred to me before; at least, not consciously.
If an aspie has a successful life + wife + an abundant number of friends + always had a normal social life, then he's far less likely to join WP in the first place. 
Umm it's far less likely to be even diagnosed, why would he identify with autism?
I don't recall ever having stated that my supposition was only about aspie men, even though I did come to the realization after having reviewed "a lot" of posts and threads featuring aspie men who complain about not getting dates with women AND not having any male friends, either.

This leads me to conclude that if a man -- any man -- is having trouble getting dates, he might do better if he could be seen as having male friends than if he was seen to have no friends at all.

I don't know if this is even a testable hypothesis.  How would someone go about running such an experiment?



Well, it doesn't need any experiment, it is just common sense : people who have greater difficulty in social interaction and communication (which is the very definition of autism, at least the hfa form of it) then will have more trouble in socialization and in forming friends, and most relationship often occur via ...socialization and friends.



funeralxempire
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25 Apr 2020, 4:26 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or do you mean WP? Virtual relationships are not real, dude.


You're welcome to believe whatever you'd like to.
I really can't pretend to respect for a grown man who addresses others as dude.

Further, you have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters. You're welcome to let your own attitudes limit your development, but why encourage others to make the same mistakes?


All this attack because of the word dude? You're very sick in the mind.


This isn't our first interaction or the first time you've given me your attitude, if you'd like to pretend this is entirely unprovoked, feel free to engage in whatever self-deceit you need to in order to avoid self-reflection.


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Karamazov
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25 Apr 2020, 4:27 pm

Marknis wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
^ that is a very good point.

If I’d never let my flat mate in first year halls at uni drag me down to the student union on the first day there:
• I'd never have been press-ganged into the local metal scene by a bloke who liked my jacket and boots,
• Never been accepted as “he’s quiet and dreamy but he’s one of us” by the lads & lasses there,
• I’d never have met the first girl I took out on a date,
• Never have been invited upstairs by girl who asked me to walk her home after dark,
• Never met my first serious girlfriend...

and never had the knowledge that I could do this thing when I met the woman who’s now my wife.


That doesn’t happen in the culture I live in. If a man can’t get a girlfriend, he’s a “loser” in the eyes of other men and he’ll get belittled for it. Instead of getting taken along to social events, you will be told “Quit whining and do it!” and left to your own devices.


Same here.
Men will take the piss out of each other on any and every ground they can think of: and regard it as a slight against them if you don’t respond in kind.
To quote the prophet (the guy who press-ganged me as per above):
“Look mate, if you can’t think of a witty comeback just tell them to F off: at least it’s a response”
I did as I was told.
Of course occasionally I could think of a comeback.
It’s the lack of response in kind that confirms the notion that you’re a loser, not the thing they take the piss out of you for initially.

The fact it was a metal scene probably helped tbh: several of the folks already there had an ASD diagnosis, trauma from childhood abuse, bipolar disorder etc: a little clan of freaks and misfits of all types.

I also had to get there and enter on my own: which was terrifying every time.
I still did it: assumed it was the same for everyone else at the time.


There’s almost no middle ground regarding metal where I live. Depending on the perception, it’s “Satanic”, “neckbeard music”, or “bad ass” though they have to be bands like Five Finger Death Punch, Godsmack, Disturbed, Slipknot, and Avenged Sevenfold to be considered “bad ass” because anything that isn’t mainstream to these people isn’t “cool”. :roll:


Yeah, I’ve heard that American metal is “different” (that is, much more prone to ostentatious nastiness and macho nonsense than the rest of the world... )
European Metal tends to be much more melodic, romantic even at times.

Maybe that punk scene in Austin would be a better bet for trial & error socialising with whoever’s around and happy do to so with you: just don’t go getting tattoos and piercings to fit in! :lol:
(I’ve always found American Punk in all its varied forms preferable to your country’s Metal: I mean, what right-minded person would listen to Slayer when they can listen to Sonic Youth? Beats me :P ).



funeralxempire
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25 Apr 2020, 4:34 pm

Karamazov wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
^ that is a very good point.

If I’d never let my flat mate in first year halls at uni drag me down to the student union on the first day there:
• I'd never have been press-ganged into the local metal scene by a bloke who liked my jacket and boots,
• Never been accepted as “he’s quiet and dreamy but he’s one of us” by the lads & lasses there,
• I’d never have met the first girl I took out on a date,
• Never have been invited upstairs by girl who asked me to walk her home after dark,
• Never met my first serious girlfriend...

and never had the knowledge that I could do this thing when I met the woman who’s now my wife.


That doesn’t happen in the culture I live in. If a man can’t get a girlfriend, he’s a “loser” in the eyes of other men and he’ll get belittled for it. Instead of getting taken along to social events, you will be told “Quit whining and do it!” and left to your own devices.


Same here.
Men will take the piss out of each other on any and every ground they can think of: and regard it as a slight against them if you don’t respond in kind.
To quote the prophet (the guy who press-ganged me as per above):
“Look mate, if you can’t think of a witty comeback just tell them to F off: at least it’s a response”
I did as I was told.
Of course occasionally I could think of a comeback.
It’s the lack of response in kind that confirms the notion that you’re a loser, not the thing they take the piss out of you for initially.

The fact it was a metal scene probably helped tbh: several of the folks already there had an ASD diagnosis, trauma from childhood abuse, bipolar disorder etc: a little clan of freaks and misfits of all types.

I also had to get there and enter on my own: which was terrifying every time.
I still did it: assumed it was the same for everyone else at the time.


There’s almost no middle ground regarding metal where I live. Depending on the perception, it’s “Satanic”, “neckbeard music”, or “bad ass” though they have to be bands like Five Finger Death Punch, Godsmack, Disturbed, Slipknot, and Avenged Sevenfold to be considered “bad ass” because anything that isn’t mainstream to these people isn’t “cool”. :roll:


Yeah, I’ve heard that American metal is “different” (that is, much more prone to ostentatious nastiness and macho nonsense than the rest of the world... )
European Metal tends to be much more melodic, romantic even at times.

Maybe that punk scene in Austin would be a better bet for trial & error socialising with whoever’s around and happy do to so with you: just don’t go getting tattoos and piercings to fit in! :lol:
(I’ve always found American Punk in all its varied forms preferable to your country’s Metal: I mean, what right-minded person would listen to Slayer when they can listen to Sonic Youth? Beats me :P ).


Now that's a hard decision, I'd prefer either Sonic Youth or Slayer to a lot of European metal that isn't Carcass, Napalm Death or Darkthrone. Anyways, American punk is certainly good, but European punk gave us Discharge. :nerdy:


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"Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell


The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Apr 2020, 4:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or do you mean WP? Virtual relationships are not real, dude.
You're welcome to believe whatever you'd like to.  I really can't pretend to respect for a grown man who addresses others as dude.  Further, you have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters.  You're welcome to let your own attitudes limit your development, but why encourage others to make the same mistakes?
All this attack because of the word dude? You're very sick in the mind.
There also seems to be a significant degree of doubt toward the accuracy of your claims involved.


Is the "Long distance relationship" still a thing these days? Surprisingly I feel it's no more a trend like in the 90's.



rick42
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25 Apr 2020, 4:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
rick42 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When examining the post histories of several men who have complained about lack of popularity with women, one under-riding theme seems to play out:

Men who can't get a date with women also seem to have few (if any) male friends.


I wish I had the time, money, and credentials to do some real research on this.  Unfortunately, it would take all of those to wade through each and every "I Can't Get A Date" post and thread on WP to prove even the slightest correlation.

But it makes intuitive sense.

So gents, if you have trouble getting acquainted with the ladies despite your best efforts, then maybe you should first try being friends with men -- that's friends, nothing more.  You don't have to become a redneck, a punk-rocker, or a bad-assed alpha male -- just make a few male friends and hang out with them.  Once women see that other men like you and get along well with you, they may be more likely to accept you as something other than a creepy loner with a bad attitude.

Anyway ... just sayin' ...



Maybe that's true now,but only because I haven't even tried to bother socializing in a couples of years and been focusing on just my hobbies.I had some male friends throughout most of my life,so lets not act I been a loner throughout my entire life. I had atleast 3 male friends back during my Middle School,High School and College years and even after as well until I was in 26/27 years old. Also had atleast one male friend until a almost a couple years ago when we had a fallout with one another.The problem is not women seem necessarily see me as loner creep.It always seem girls/women were way more interested in my friends than they were towards me.Most of my former friends had atleast 1 girlfriend throughout their life and others have gotten atleast attention from women. One of my former friends even mocked me because while he was getting date and get to fu*k several of females,I can't even get females to have long conversations with me. While it's likely true that males that have no friends tend to be seen as losers/loners by females,it doesn't explain why I NEVER got girls/women to like me at any point in my life.


It does actually offer insight into why you're struggling with women, because you're not just struggling with women, even if you don't notice or care about the other struggle. Generally speaking, and in line with what Fnord has observed, men who struggle romantically struggle more broadly than that, socially speaking. The deficit of social skills that contributes to your struggles romantically also plays out in other categories of social life.

Your friends who were better socially equipped always got more attention because they responded appropriately in social interactions. Did they spend a lot of time hanging out with you, or just in those social situations? Were you close, or did you just hang out sometimes? If they were mostly superficial friends who only saw you when they already were doing something, or in fairly limited contexts with other people involved and never with any real closeness or emotional intimacy, my money is on that they didn't view you as a particularly close friend. It hurts to realize this, but it's healthy to realize it as well. Once your value as an immature source of entertainment evaporates, they don't have the time for you.

If you struggle at forming healthy emotional bonds with people, it will impact both your ability to form platonic friendships as well as romantic relationships. If there's nothing to connect to, you'll remain lacking in connections. Fnord isn't incorrect in this observation and being bitter and blaming others will never resolve it or even improve it.



Fnord isn't incorrect when he says that being a loner will hurt a man chance of getting a date.However he's incorrect when he believes that's the main reason why men would struggle with women,when there's other things that may hurt a mans chances more to get dates than simply not having male friends.I will say this,I did have some superficial friends throughout my life,and I can struggle with male relationships as well.However,I also had some good male relationship that did became close friendships and they were people who I hang out with often, and who I would,especially when I was in my teens and early/mid 20s. One of my non close friends mocked me when I was 25 years old, because I was still a virgin that didn't get attention from women,while he already already dated and had sex by 4 different females.After that,I dropped all contact with that guy. My closest of friends didn't mind as much,however they still wonder I wasn't getting nearly as much attention from women as they did.They tried to help me to get me to become more appealing to women,but with no success.

So really sometimes having male friends might not make much of difference of how women see a man.Women see me in the same light nowadays as they did when I used to have close friends. In my case,I think it's just women look down on me because I'm a bit socially awkward and I'm not very charming compared to the average NT man,not due to being a loner. There's only so that can done about being socially awkward as a aspie. Unless a male is supposed tons of close male friends,then the lack of male friends isn't the problem.Plus it's very rare for a aspie to have that many friends anyway.



Last edited by rick42 on 25 Apr 2020, 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Apr 2020, 4:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or do you mean WP? Virtual relationships are not real, dude.


You're welcome to believe whatever you'd like to.
I really can't pretend to respect for a grown man who addresses others as dude.

Further, you have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters. You're welcome to let your own attitudes limit your development, but why encourage others to make the same mistakes?


All this attack because of the word dude? You're very sick in the mind.


This isn't our first interaction or the first time you've given me your attitude, if you'd like to pretend this is entirely unprovoked, feel free to engage in whatever self-deceit you need to in order to avoid self-reflection.



You are not making sense at all, "self-deceit" and "self-reflection" , please talk normal and stop playing the armchair psychologist.



kraftiekortie
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25 Apr 2020, 4:41 pm

Don’t be foolish, Rick.

Don’t give up.

I don’t know you, and don’t know why you have trouble making friends.

But it’s ridiculous to think about not ever talking to women again. You have the right to talk to anyone you want to talk to, just like so-called “alpha” males.

I don’t have many “masculine” virtues.....but I have just as much right to romantic happiness as some guy with perfect, model looks.



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25 Apr 2020, 4:42 pm

rick42 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
rick42 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When examining the post histories of several men who have complained about lack of popularity with women, one under-riding theme seems to play out:

Men who can't get a date with women also seem to have few (if any) male friends.


I wish I had the time, money, and credentials to do some real research on this.  Unfortunately, it would take all of those to wade through each and every "I Can't Get A Date" post and thread on WP to prove even the slightest correlation.

But it makes intuitive sense.

So gents, if you have trouble getting acquainted with the ladies despite your best efforts, then maybe you should first try being friends with men -- that's friends, nothing more.  You don't have to become a redneck, a punk-rocker, or a bad-assed alpha male -- just make a few male friends and hang out with them.  Once women see that other men like you and get along well with you, they may be more likely to accept you as something other than a creepy loner with a bad attitude.

Anyway ... just sayin' ...



Maybe that's true now,but only because I haven't even tried to bother socializing in a couples of years and been focusing on just my hobbies.I had some male friends throughout most of my life,so lets not act I been a loner throughout my entire life. I had atleast 3 male friends back during my Middle School,High School and College years and even after as well until I was in 26/27 years old. Also had atleast one male friend until a almost a couple years ago when we had a fallout with one another.The problem is not women seem necessarily see me as loner creep.It always seem girls/women were way more interested in my friends than they were towards me.Most of my former friends had atleast 1 girlfriend throughout their life and others have gotten atleast attention from women. One of my former friends even mocked me because while he was getting date and get to fu*k several of females,I can't even get females to have long conversations with me. While it's likely true that males that have no friends tend to be seen as losers/loners by females,it doesn't explain why I NEVER got girls/women to like me at any point in my life.


It does actually offer insight into why you're struggling with women, because you're not just struggling with women, even if you don't notice or care about the other struggle. Generally speaking, and in line with what Fnord has observed, men who struggle romantically struggle more broadly than that, socially speaking. The deficit of social skills that contributes to your struggles romantically also plays out in other categories of social life.

Your friends who were better socially equipped always got more attention because they responded appropriately in social interactions. Did they spend a lot of time hanging out with you, or just in those social situations? Were you close, or did you just hang out sometimes? If they were mostly superficial friends who only saw you when they already were doing something, or in fairly limited contexts with other people involved and never with any real closeness or emotional intimacy, my money is on that they didn't view you as a particularly close friend. It hurts to realize this, but it's healthy to realize it as well. Once your value as an immature source of entertainment evaporates, they don't have the time for you.

If you struggle at forming healthy emotional bonds with people, it will impact both your ability to form platonic friendships as well as romantic relationships. If there's nothing to connect to, you'll remain lacking in connections. Fnord isn't incorrect in this observation and being bitter and blaming others will never resolve it or even improve it.



Fnord isn't incorrect when he says that being a loner will hurt a man chance of getting a date,however he's incorrect when he believes that's the main reason why men would struggle with women .I will say this,I did have some superficial friends throughout my life,and I can struggle with male relationships as well.However,I also had some good male relationship that did became close friendships and they were people who I hang out with often, and who I would,especially when I was in my teens and early/mid 20s. One of my non close friends mocked me when I was 25 years old, because I was still a virgin that didn't get attention from women,while he already already dated and had sex by 4 different females.After that,I dropped all contact with that guy. My closest of friends didn't mind as much,however they still wonder I wasn't getting nearly as much attention from women as they did.They tried to help me to get more attention from females,but with no success.

So really sometimes having male friends might not make much of difference of how women see a man.Women see me in the same light nowadays as they did when I used to have close friends. In my case,I think it's just women look down on me because I'm a bit socially awkward and I'm not very charming compared to the average NT man,not due to being a loner. There's only so that can done about being socially awkward as a aspie. Unless a male is supposed tons of close male friends,then the lack of male friends isn't the problem.Plus it's very rare for a aspie to have that many friends anyway.


Also not to forget that most friendships are actually....temporary; or at least that occur in certain stages of life: school, college ...etc. Even among NTs, it's very rare for friends to stick forever, usually these are very few.

Also couples often hang out with other couples; the single status is also a factor of fading friendships .



funeralxempire
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25 Apr 2020, 4:44 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or do you mean WP? Virtual relationships are not real, dude.


You're welcome to believe whatever you'd like to.
I really can't pretend to respect for a grown man who addresses others as dude.

Further, you have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters. You're welcome to let your own attitudes limit your development, but why encourage others to make the same mistakes?


All this attack because of the word dude? You're very sick in the mind.


This isn't our first interaction or the first time you've given me your attitude, if you'd like to pretend this is entirely unprovoked, feel free to engage in whatever self-deceit you need to in order to avoid self-reflection.



You are not making sense at all, "self-deceit" and "self-reflection" , please talk normal and stop playing the armchair psychologist.


You've never failed to be a dick to me in earlier interactions, if I'm unpleasant now, consider it a return on your earlier investment.


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25 Apr 2020, 4:46 pm

And btw, funeralxempire, what do you mean by that "I have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters" ?

I never even had a Long distance relationship in my life! Well, maybe only once when I was teen.

Kraftie, can you explain what he means? I can't understand him.



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25 Apr 2020, 4:47 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or do you mean WP? Virtual relationships are not real, dude.


You're welcome to believe whatever you'd like to.
I really can't pretend to respect for a grown man who addresses others as dude.

Further, you have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters. You're welcome to let your own attitudes limit your development, but why encourage others to make the same mistakes?


All this attack because of the word dude? You're very sick in the mind.


This isn't our first interaction or the first time you've given me your attitude, if you'd like to pretend this is entirely unprovoked, feel free to engage in whatever self-deceit you need to in order to avoid self-reflection.



You are not making sense at all, "self-deceit" and "self-reflection" , please talk normal and stop playing the armchair psychologist.


You've never failed to be a dick to me in earlier interactions, if I'm unpleasant now, consider it a return on your earlier investment.



Are you confusing me with someone else? Are you another drunk? I barely ever interacted with you, I barely remember your posts, what the heck you are talking about?



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25 Apr 2020, 4:48 pm

I’m an autistic guy.

I’m a shrimp. 5 foot 5.

I wear “old man” clothes.

Women don’t dislike me.

Why should they dislike you? Being Aspie is no excuse for women to dislike somebody.

You must let people know that you are not less than anybody else.



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25 Apr 2020, 4:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I’m an autistic guy.

I’m a shrimp. 5 foot 5.

I wear “old man” clothes.

Women don’t dislike me.

Why should they dislike you? Being Aspie is no excuse for women to dislike somebody.

You must let people know that you are not less than anybody else.


Shrimps are yummy.

Especially with coconut sauce.



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25 Apr 2020, 4:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Now that's a hard decision, I'd prefer either Sonic Youth or Slayer to a lot of European metal that isn't Carcass, Napalm Death or Darkthrone. Anyways, American punk is certainly good, but European punk gave us Discharge. :nerdy:

Whereas I never had much time for any of them: My Dying Bride, Nightwish, Epica and Arch Enemy most prominently.
Have quite enjoyed Jinjer and Ignea recently.
Ad Infinitum from Switzerland have potential. \m/ 8) \m/

Erm... there was a topic... oh yeah!

rick42 & marknis, please don’t take to heart anyone who’s reflecting your fears & frustration back at you: it will sound like it’s the truth, but it also acts as a mental block to ever getting anywhere.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.



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25 Apr 2020, 4:51 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
And btw, funeralxempire, what do you mean by that "I have a long established track record of being not even wrong on these matters" ?

I never even had a Long distance relationship in my life! Well, maybe only once when I was teen.

Kraftie, can you explain what he means? I can't understand him.


You used to regularly offer advice in these types of threads, often with quite a bit of snark for anyone who saw things differently.
You're a bit young for Alzheimer's to have set in this badly.


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"Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell