28 Dec 2020, 7:52 pm
that1weirdgrrrl
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,090
Location: Between my dreams and your fantasies
28 Dec 2020, 7:55 pm
28 Dec 2020, 7:58 pm
28 Dec 2020, 8:15 pm
Zoom weddings are a trend due to the pandemic...A good trend i must say...One that may stick long after the pandemic, especially when families are far away...I like this trend...Too late for me, though... 
AngelRho
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Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
28 Dec 2020, 9:45 pm
Clueless2017 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
LEGAL marriage is entirely a convenience. That’s all it is. You don’t really get married out of love or wanting children or lifelong companionship. Those are good reasons to get married, but those aren’t the main focus of being married.
If, say, someone ends up in the hospital. Having a marriage partner means you have someone who can step in and make sure your wishes regarding treatment, life-saving procedures, and even end-of-life concerns are respected.
If you become disabled long-term, you don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to you because you have someone who can deal with that.
Or suppose you split up. If you have children, you can easily hire lawyers who will negotiate for you how to allocate property held in common, visitation/primary custody, child support, etc., both of you have to agree on terms, and a judge has to sign off on it. If your spouse poses a threat to you, you can get a temporary restraining order. Then it’s DONE and you can try to live normal lives again. Marriage laws offer that level of protection, whereas shacking up does not. If you shack up and your partner cheats on you, which she is free to do any time, there are no consequences. She can walk right out of your apartment with your TV that you paid for, simply claim it’s hers, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you’re married and you think she’s cheating, you can hire a private investigator to follow her, collect evidence, and take her to the cleaners. If SHE paid for the TV, oh well...shoulda thought about that before you CHEATED!! !
Marriage basically functions as a way to say you are going to take responsibility of everything in life together, both the good and the bad, and legally binds you to it. If something goes wrong, it gives you an escape route.
Start a romantic relationship because you love someone. Don’t get married for love. Love just gets you to the altar or the JP. Everything else is just business. I married my best friend, so things like love, etc. are not things that we really have to worry about. It’s understood and obvious we love each other, so that’s a given. Our actual legal marriage is about a lot of other things and is helpful when it comes to children, school, real estate ownership, what happens when one or both of us is out of a job or even homeless, not having to worry about who pays when we want a new gaming console, etc. You can do the same thing without a legal marriage, but, again, that also leaves you vulnerable.
We are both former paralegals, btw, who spent more time than we like to admit ending people’s marriages and ruining men’s lives. We used to run scenarios about what would happen if WE decided to divorce, none of which ended well. Men, myself included, don’t tend to want to end relationships, especially not marriages. The problem is they seldom understand their rights and typically don’t fight for them, so we usually lay down and play dead. We both are aware of some of the intimidation tactics lawyers use to force a guy’s hand, and we both know better than to do something stupid (like dating) during divorce proceedings. But more recently lawyers and judges tend to favor parties who want to reconcile. That means you can fight a divorce, bury your partner in paperwork all the way to the bitter end, and make life a living hell for them if you don’t get what you want.
Try that after just shacking up with someone and you’re liable to go to prison. If you love her more than life, as stupid as that is, you can’t fight to get her back, nor can you demand restitution if she does something ugly. Marriage allows you to do that and gives you some options if things were to go sour.
If, say, someone ends up in the hospital. Having a marriage partner means you have someone who can step in and make sure your wishes regarding treatment, life-saving procedures, and even end-of-life concerns are respected.
If you become disabled long-term, you don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to you because you have someone who can deal with that.
Or suppose you split up. If you have children, you can easily hire lawyers who will negotiate for you how to allocate property held in common, visitation/primary custody, child support, etc., both of you have to agree on terms, and a judge has to sign off on it. If your spouse poses a threat to you, you can get a temporary restraining order. Then it’s DONE and you can try to live normal lives again. Marriage laws offer that level of protection, whereas shacking up does not. If you shack up and your partner cheats on you, which she is free to do any time, there are no consequences. She can walk right out of your apartment with your TV that you paid for, simply claim it’s hers, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you’re married and you think she’s cheating, you can hire a private investigator to follow her, collect evidence, and take her to the cleaners. If SHE paid for the TV, oh well...shoulda thought about that before you CHEATED!! !
Marriage basically functions as a way to say you are going to take responsibility of everything in life together, both the good and the bad, and legally binds you to it. If something goes wrong, it gives you an escape route.
Start a romantic relationship because you love someone. Don’t get married for love. Love just gets you to the altar or the JP. Everything else is just business. I married my best friend, so things like love, etc. are not things that we really have to worry about. It’s understood and obvious we love each other, so that’s a given. Our actual legal marriage is about a lot of other things and is helpful when it comes to children, school, real estate ownership, what happens when one or both of us is out of a job or even homeless, not having to worry about who pays when we want a new gaming console, etc. You can do the same thing without a legal marriage, but, again, that also leaves you vulnerable.
We are both former paralegals, btw, who spent more time than we like to admit ending people’s marriages and ruining men’s lives. We used to run scenarios about what would happen if WE decided to divorce, none of which ended well. Men, myself included, don’t tend to want to end relationships, especially not marriages. The problem is they seldom understand their rights and typically don’t fight for them, so we usually lay down and play dead. We both are aware of some of the intimidation tactics lawyers use to force a guy’s hand, and we both know better than to do something stupid (like dating) during divorce proceedings. But more recently lawyers and judges tend to favor parties who want to reconcile. That means you can fight a divorce, bury your partner in paperwork all the way to the bitter end, and make life a living hell for them if you don’t get what you want.
Try that after just shacking up with someone and you’re liable to go to prison. If you love her more than life, as stupid as that is, you can’t fight to get her back, nor can you demand restitution if she does something ugly. Marriage allows you to do that and gives you some options if things were to go sour.
... ... ...
Thank you for your insight...I agree with you in that marriage is a protection under the law in many ways...However, I respectfully disagree with your personal point of view on the topic...Let me specify...I am an NT who married an Aspie for LOVE and NOT convenience...I also happen to have a BA in Legal Studies and one decade of experience, working in the legal profession on a paralegal capacity...Although i did not work with Family Law matters; i am very much familiar with all aspects of the legal process...It was a required course for my curriculum at the university-level...In the practice, i actually specialized in civil litigation...Anyway, you are obviously familiar with dissolutions of marriage (by the way, this is the correct legal term)...For the record, i am not replying here to question your credentials, but to question your very personal point of view on the topic of the institution of marriage...
Please forgive me, if i misinterpreted your words...First of all, i commend you for marrying your best-friend...Friendship is a great foundation for the success of a marriage...According to you, you and your spouse have extensive experience dissolving marriages...So, this may explain your negative outlook on the institution of marriage as merely a protection under the law...It makes sense that you think this way, considering that in your career you dealt with the UNHAPPY marriages and not the HAPPY marriages...
Please know that there is an often forgotten segment of the population who, like me, married for LOVE...In my younger years, i had the opportunity to marry for CONVENIENCE to at least one law student or one attorney, both of whom had more earning capacity than me back then...(One of them did proposed to me; i respectfully declined)...In my sunny state of California, my marriage is considered 'permanent' for all legal purposes after the third year of marriage...Had i married for convenience, i could have opted for divorce after the third year of marriage, and i would have been entitled to spousal support...However, because a marriage of convenience goes against my value system, i waited until i could marry for LOVE...And i married a good-hearted man who is 190lbs. of AUTISM GOLD...
In fact, because i had his well-being in mind before mine, i gave-up my dream wedding, which would have allowed me the opportunity to share my HAPPINESS with family and friends who sincerely care for me...Instead, i settled for a modest civil ceremony with only my parents present...So, for the record, not all NTs get marry as an excuse to have a party that allows them to be the center of attention...Some NTs actually marry for LOVE...Because they wish to spend their life together to care for each other...Because they are willing to commit to each other in fidelity and loyalty and love...Because they wish to provide the security allowed by the legal institution of marriage...Because they want the respect and honor granted only by this sacred institution...And most importantly, in my case, because I want God's blessing in our union
Anyhow, thank you for reading... 
Post Script: Jesus Christ attended at least one wedding that we know about, wherein he performed his first miracle, a better quality wine...To share in the joy and happiness of the newlyweds...Just a friendly reminder to those of you reading who consider yourselves Christians...
Don’t get me wrong...my wife and I love each other very much. And I don’t think you should get married to someone you don’t love. I just mean you don’t need a piece of paper to certify your love for someone. If you want to commit to someone, then just commit. Marriage is a legal union that carries a lot of weight, and I don’t believe most people who get married really understand what they’re getting into. Everyone says for better or for worse until for worse happens, then they’re nowhere to be found. If I threatened divorce or became abusive, my wife would have me 5150’d. It’s become increasingly rare to find people who really are that serious about their marriage. Most people have the attitude that if you really love someone, you should let them go and be happy. I say, well, what about MY happiness? If she can’t be called upon to care about my happiness, I’m certainly not going to be concerned for hers. And if you think this is only about happiness, you aren’t ready for marriage with that person! We have a happy marriage because we are happy people to begin with. If you make your partner responsible for your life, happiness, and well being, if you were miserable going into marriage, you’ll be miserable in it.
My ex-fiancée was one of those “when we get out of high school, it will get better.” Then it was “when we get engaged, things will get better.” And finally “once we get married, it will get better.” Let me guess, once I kill myself, things will get better? Then I knew it was time to leave, and I NEVER was the one to walk away from a relationship.
So I started dating one of her bridesmaids and the rest is history.
We don’t have a marriage of convenience. The institution of marriage by law just happens to be a convenience for those who want that kind of lifelong partnership. It’s not meant for those who cut and run at the first sign of trouble. You mentioned Jesus...He’d be the first to tell you that if you’re a cheater or not good with money or can’t handle being with a sick person, don’t freakin’ get married!
Love your insight. Always fun meeting other people in law!
28 Dec 2020, 11:28 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
LEGAL marriage is entirely a convenience. That’s all it is. You don’t really get married out of love or wanting children or lifelong companionship. Those are good reasons to get married, but those aren’t the main focus of being married.
If, say, someone ends up in the hospital. Having a marriage partner means you have someone who can step in and make sure your wishes regarding treatment, life-saving procedures, and even end-of-life concerns are respected.
If you become disabled long-term, you don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to you because you have someone who can deal with that.
Or suppose you split up. If you have children, you can easily hire lawyers who will negotiate for you how to allocate property held in common, visitation/primary custody, child support, etc., both of you have to agree on terms, and a judge has to sign off on it. If your spouse poses a threat to you, you can get a temporary restraining order. Then it’s DONE and you can try to live normal lives again. Marriage laws offer that level of protection, whereas shacking up does not. If you shack up and your partner cheats on you, which she is free to do any time, there are no consequences. She can walk right out of your apartment with your TV that you paid for, simply claim it’s hers, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you’re married and you think she’s cheating, you can hire a private investigator to follow her, collect evidence, and take her to the cleaners. If SHE paid for the TV, oh well...shoulda thought about that before you CHEATED!! !
Marriage basically functions as a way to say you are going to take responsibility of everything in life together, both the good and the bad, and legally binds you to it. If something goes wrong, it gives you an escape route.
Start a romantic relationship because you love someone. Don’t get married for love. Love just gets you to the altar or the JP. Everything else is just business. I married my best friend, so things like love, etc. are not things that we really have to worry about. It’s understood and obvious we love each other, so that’s a given. Our actual legal marriage is about a lot of other things and is helpful when it comes to children, school, real estate ownership, what happens when one or both of us is out of a job or even homeless, not having to worry about who pays when we want a new gaming console, etc. You can do the same thing without a legal marriage, but, again, that also leaves you vulnerable.
We are both former paralegals, btw, who spent more time than we like to admit ending people’s marriages and ruining men’s lives. We used to run scenarios about what would happen if WE decided to divorce, none of which ended well. Men, myself included, don’t tend to want to end relationships, especially not marriages. The problem is they seldom understand their rights and typically don’t fight for them, so we usually lay down and play dead. We both are aware of some of the intimidation tactics lawyers use to force a guy’s hand, and we both know better than to do something stupid (like dating) during divorce proceedings. But more recently lawyers and judges tend to favor parties who want to reconcile. That means you can fight a divorce, bury your partner in paperwork all the way to the bitter end, and make life a living hell for them if you don’t get what you want.
Try that after just shacking up with someone and you’re liable to go to prison. If you love her more than life, as stupid as that is, you can’t fight to get her back, nor can you demand restitution if she does something ugly. Marriage allows you to do that and gives you some options if things were to go sour.
If, say, someone ends up in the hospital. Having a marriage partner means you have someone who can step in and make sure your wishes regarding treatment, life-saving procedures, and even end-of-life concerns are respected.
If you become disabled long-term, you don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to you because you have someone who can deal with that.
Or suppose you split up. If you have children, you can easily hire lawyers who will negotiate for you how to allocate property held in common, visitation/primary custody, child support, etc., both of you have to agree on terms, and a judge has to sign off on it. If your spouse poses a threat to you, you can get a temporary restraining order. Then it’s DONE and you can try to live normal lives again. Marriage laws offer that level of protection, whereas shacking up does not. If you shack up and your partner cheats on you, which she is free to do any time, there are no consequences. She can walk right out of your apartment with your TV that you paid for, simply claim it’s hers, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you’re married and you think she’s cheating, you can hire a private investigator to follow her, collect evidence, and take her to the cleaners. If SHE paid for the TV, oh well...shoulda thought about that before you CHEATED!! !
Marriage basically functions as a way to say you are going to take responsibility of everything in life together, both the good and the bad, and legally binds you to it. If something goes wrong, it gives you an escape route.
Start a romantic relationship because you love someone. Don’t get married for love. Love just gets you to the altar or the JP. Everything else is just business. I married my best friend, so things like love, etc. are not things that we really have to worry about. It’s understood and obvious we love each other, so that’s a given. Our actual legal marriage is about a lot of other things and is helpful when it comes to children, school, real estate ownership, what happens when one or both of us is out of a job or even homeless, not having to worry about who pays when we want a new gaming console, etc. You can do the same thing without a legal marriage, but, again, that also leaves you vulnerable.
We are both former paralegals, btw, who spent more time than we like to admit ending people’s marriages and ruining men’s lives. We used to run scenarios about what would happen if WE decided to divorce, none of which ended well. Men, myself included, don’t tend to want to end relationships, especially not marriages. The problem is they seldom understand their rights and typically don’t fight for them, so we usually lay down and play dead. We both are aware of some of the intimidation tactics lawyers use to force a guy’s hand, and we both know better than to do something stupid (like dating) during divorce proceedings. But more recently lawyers and judges tend to favor parties who want to reconcile. That means you can fight a divorce, bury your partner in paperwork all the way to the bitter end, and make life a living hell for them if you don’t get what you want.
Try that after just shacking up with someone and you’re liable to go to prison. If you love her more than life, as stupid as that is, you can’t fight to get her back, nor can you demand restitution if she does something ugly. Marriage allows you to do that and gives you some options if things were to go sour.
... ... ...
Thank you for your insight...I agree with you in that marriage is a protection under the law in many ways...However, I respectfully disagree with your personal point of view on the topic...Let me specify...I am an NT who married an Aspie for LOVE and NOT convenience...I also happen to have a BA in Legal Studies and one decade of experience, working in the legal profession on a paralegal capacity...Although i did not work with Family Law matters; i am very much familiar with all aspects of the legal process...It was a required course for my curriculum at the university-level...In the practice, i actually specialized in civil litigation...Anyway, you are obviously familiar with dissolutions of marriage (by the way, this is the correct legal term)...For the record, i am not replying here to question your credentials, but to question your very personal point of view on the topic of the institution of marriage...
Please forgive me, if i misinterpreted your words...First of all, i commend you for marrying your best-friend...Friendship is a great foundation for the success of a marriage...According to you, you and your spouse have extensive experience dissolving marriages...So, this may explain your negative outlook on the institution of marriage as merely a protection under the law...It makes sense that you think this way, considering that in your career you dealt with the UNHAPPY marriages and not the HAPPY marriages...
Please know that there is an often forgotten segment of the population who, like me, married for LOVE...In my younger years, i had the opportunity to marry for CONVENIENCE to at least one law student or one attorney, both of whom had more earning capacity than me back then...(One of them did proposed to me; i respectfully declined)...In my sunny state of California, my marriage is considered 'permanent' for all legal purposes after the third year of marriage...Had i married for convenience, i could have opted for divorce after the third year of marriage, and i would have been entitled to spousal support...However, because a marriage of convenience goes against my value system, i waited until i could marry for LOVE...And i married a good-hearted man who is 190lbs. of AUTISM GOLD...
In fact, because i had his well-being in mind before mine, i gave-up my dream wedding, which would have allowed me the opportunity to share my HAPPINESS with family and friends who sincerely care for me...Instead, i settled for a modest civil ceremony with only my parents present...So, for the record, not all NTs get marry as an excuse to have a party that allows them to be the center of attention...Some NTs actually marry for LOVE...Because they wish to spend their life together to care for each other...Because they are willing to commit to each other in fidelity and loyalty and love...Because they wish to provide the security allowed by the legal institution of marriage...Because they want the respect and honor granted only by this sacred institution...And most importantly, in my case, because I want God's blessing in our union
Anyhow, thank you for reading... Post Script: Jesus Christ attended at least one wedding that we know about, wherein he performed his first miracle, a better quality wine...To share in the joy and happiness of the newlyweds...Just a friendly reminder to those of you reading who consider yourselves Christians...
Don’t get me wrong...my wife and I love each other very much. And I don’t think you should get married to someone you don’t love. I just mean you don’t need a piece of paper to certify your love for someone. If you want to commit to someone, then just commit. Marriage is a legal union that carries a lot of weight, and I don’t believe most people who get married really understand what they’re getting into. Everyone says for better or for worse until for worse happens, then they’re nowhere to be found. If I threatened divorce or became abusive, my wife would have me 5150’d. It’s become increasingly rare to find people who really are that serious about their marriage. Most people have the attitude that if you really love someone, you should let them go and be happy. I say, well, what about MY happiness? If she can’t be called upon to care about my happiness, I’m certainly not going to be concerned for hers. And if you think this is only about happiness, you aren’t ready for marriage with that person! We have a happy marriage because we are happy people to begin with. If you make your partner responsible for your life, happiness, and well being, if you were miserable going into marriage, you’ll be miserable in it.
My ex-fiancée was one of those “when we get out of high school, it will get better.” Then it was “when we get engaged, things will get better.” And finally “once we get married, it will get better.” Let me guess, once I kill myself, things will get better? Then I knew it was time to leave, and I NEVER was the one to walk away from a relationship.
So I started dating one of her bridesmaids and the rest is history.
We don’t have a marriage of convenience. The institution of marriage by law just happens to be a convenience for those who want that kind of lifelong partnership. It’s not meant for those who cut and run at the first sign of trouble. You mentioned Jesus...He’d be the first to tell you that if you’re a cheater or not good with money or can’t handle being with a sick person, don’t freakin’ get married!
Love your insight. Always fun meeting other people in law!
... ... ...
I have to agree with you...Sadly, most people are unaware of the legal implications that come with the marital status of "married"...And you are so-o-o right in that many do NOT take their vows seriously...Sad but true
...Yes!! !...Definitely, not everyone is suited for marriage...Like you, i am of the conviction that HAPPY single people make HAPPY married people...Your words reminded me of a moment during my courtship to he who became my beloved (Aspie) husband...He was going through one of his episodes of depression...And i remember telling him, "If you cannot join me in my happiness, I am resolved to be happy for both of us"...This was a defining moment in our relationship...At almost two years into our marriage, we are HAPPY together...
By the way, i would never question your love within your marriage...Quite the contrary, i congratulate you both for been brave enough for opting to marry despite seeing the worst of marriages in your legal practice...May God bless your marriage with peace, tranquility, and happiness...Greetings from California to you and your wife...Stay safe...
29 Dec 2020, 5:40 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
Married life doesn't suit me. My wife is a good person----but I just don't want to be married.
I like my freedom too much.
Sometimes, I wish I had a child----but sometimes, I'm glad I've never had kids.
I like my freedom too much.
Sometimes, I wish I had a child----but sometimes, I'm glad I've never had kids.
This is common.
People often stay together because it is financially devastating to divorce.
29 Dec 2020, 6:12 am
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Married life doesn't suit me. My wife is a good person----but I just don't want to be married.
I like my freedom too much.
Sometimes, I wish I had a child----but sometimes, I'm glad I've never had kids.
I like my freedom too much.
Sometimes, I wish I had a child----but sometimes, I'm glad I've never had kids.
This is common.
People often stay together because it is financially devastating to divorce.
A good reason to do what my folks did & common law marriage for 10 years, only really getting married because it's a fun party to have.
Mum 'tried out' common law marriage with a few guys between him and my dad. If it didn't work, move on. I don't mind this and I know some people 'stay together for the kids'.
I am so glad my mum and bio dad didn't do this. Nice people but it is honestly weird picturing them as a couple or even a friendship!
In my experience it's the teens who get messed up when parents divorce. (I imagine it would be the same for adult offspring). They know some of the ins and outs as to why that would happen and can't be won around as easily. They wonder if it was all a lie and who cheated on who. For me, when I was four, it just became exciting to go to daddy's flat. I didn't wonder because it was normal, an adventure, little kids are very accepting.
The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Dec 2020, 7:52 am
that1weirdgrrrl wrote:
If you marry the right person it could be heaven.
If you marry the wrong person it could be hell.
If you marry the wrong person it could be hell.
And if you marry the devil then you own hell.
nick007
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Joined: 4 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,711
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA
29 Dec 2020, 11:45 am
that1weirdgrrrl
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Age: 44
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Location: Between my dreams and your fantasies
29 Dec 2020, 2:22 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
that1weirdgrrrl wrote:
If you marry the right person it could be heaven.
If you marry the wrong person it could be hell.
If you marry the wrong person it could be hell.
And if you marry the devil then you own hell.
Aren't you ambitious
that1weirdgrrrl
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Age: 44
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Location: Between my dreams and your fantasies
29 Dec 2020, 2:46 pm
AngelRho
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Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
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Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
29 Dec 2020, 6:07 pm
31 Dec 2020, 12:18 am
AngelRho wrote:
It’s not about punishing someone, especially if you claim to love that person. It’s that breakups are devastating enough when you don’t have the ability to protect yourself. When someone pledges their life to you only to leave you when you’re at rock bottom, I don’t think that person deserves happiness just because he or she was able to take the easy way out and you couldn’t. It’s not about whether you’re made for marriage or not...I think all of us are. But it’s wrong to destroy another person like that. It may seem harsh, but I see no shame in demanding justice when you’ve been mistreated.
Speaking of: Divorce exists precisely because of your experiences. You can either die married or die trying to break free, and that’s no way to live. I would advise women in abusive marriages to keep a diary and keep in close contact with friends and other family members. The more witnesses you have to mental cruelty, the easier it is to build a case against someone. I don’t believe in NFD’s. I think all divorces should be contested. ALL of them. That way you would have no trouble getting away from someone like that, plus you’d be able to sue for damages. You can really do a number on an abuser that way.
While not the same thing, my wife had been horribly abused by her ex-bf. We never made it to the level of restraining order, but we did get him arrested on a misdemeanor. That was enough to send a message, and he has been scared of us ever since. My ex fiancée was especially heinous and would stalk me while I was with my girlfriend. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you miss the signs and end up married to someone. But there are also ways of turning the tables and making life a living hell until they either end up institutionalized, in prison, or in a grave. Abuse and injustice are things you should never tolerate.
If you initiate a divorce, I say best make it a contested divorce so everyone knows there is a good REASON for it. If you are the victim of a cheater who just wants to dump you for someone else and the marriage is otherwise fine, don’t accept the NFD. They are acting dishonorably to get rid of you, they therefore don’t deserve honor from you. If they must leave, make it hurt.
Speaking of: Divorce exists precisely because of your experiences. You can either die married or die trying to break free, and that’s no way to live. I would advise women in abusive marriages to keep a diary and keep in close contact with friends and other family members. The more witnesses you have to mental cruelty, the easier it is to build a case against someone. I don’t believe in NFD’s. I think all divorces should be contested. ALL of them. That way you would have no trouble getting away from someone like that, plus you’d be able to sue for damages. You can really do a number on an abuser that way.
While not the same thing, my wife had been horribly abused by her ex-bf. We never made it to the level of restraining order, but we did get him arrested on a misdemeanor. That was enough to send a message, and he has been scared of us ever since. My ex fiancée was especially heinous and would stalk me while I was with my girlfriend. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you miss the signs and end up married to someone. But there are also ways of turning the tables and making life a living hell until they either end up institutionalized, in prison, or in a grave. Abuse and injustice are things you should never tolerate.
If you initiate a divorce, I say best make it a contested divorce so everyone knows there is a good REASON for it. If you are the victim of a cheater who just wants to dump you for someone else and the marriage is otherwise fine, don’t accept the NFD. They are acting dishonorably to get rid of you, they therefore don’t deserve honor from you. If they must leave, make it hurt.
... ... ...
Hello, nice to coincide with you here in WP yet again...NT, here, happily married to by beloved (Aspie) husband...Remember me?...Former Paralegal with appx 1 decade of experience who specialized in civil litigation...America is a highly litigious society...And, much like you, i was once in the middle of the action...That was fun
...Fortunately for me, i was suing on behalf of the victims...And for the most part, our clients' cases had a positive outcome...I made sure NOT to work with criminal matters, so that i would not deal with some of the worst in society...Nor did i work in dissolving marriages, so that i did not become cynical and pessimistic about love and relationships... 
By reading your reply above, it is evident to me that you enjoy what you do...And it is also evident to me that you do a formidable job representing the legal interests of your clients...
...However, as Legal Assistants, we should be careful NOT to lose our humanity (for lack of a better word)...Please allow me to explain myself...My legal mentor--former associate to Melvin Mouron Belli (Chief lawyer for Jack Ruby)--had a family law partner, next door from us...Occasionally, i was called to act as an interpreter for one of their clients seeking a DOM...These brief communications gave me a glimpse of what you are describing above...And, with all due respect, i did NOT like what i saw...Sometimes, the reason for seeking a DOM was irreconcilable differences, not necessarily involving domestic violence or the like...And the client would specifically express his or her desire to amicably terminate the marriage, but much like you, the attorney would insist on contesting it...At other times, it was evident to me that given the right conditions, the marriage could be salvaged, even when there was cheating involved...Yet, the attorney's aggressive and contentious tactics prevented an amicable outcome between the parties involved and often resulted in a much more costly DOM...
I fully understand that your clients deserve to have the best legal representation possible...And, in my humble opinion, at least in some cases, sometimes the best representation is a NEUTRAL attorney-mediator when the state law allows for it...At other times, marriage counseling may salvage the marriage...How i wish people knew that there may be an alternative to a contested DOM...Thank you for reading...And greetings from CA..
31 Dec 2020, 5:42 am
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
31 Dec 2020, 9:57 am
Clueless2017 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
It’s not about punishing someone, especially if you claim to love that person. It’s that breakups are devastating enough when you don’t have the ability to protect yourself. When someone pledges their life to you only to leave you when you’re at rock bottom, I don’t think that person deserves happiness just because he or she was able to take the easy way out and you couldn’t. It’s not about whether you’re made for marriage or not...I think all of us are. But it’s wrong to destroy another person like that. It may seem harsh, but I see no shame in demanding justice when you’ve been mistreated.
Speaking of: Divorce exists precisely because of your experiences. You can either die married or die trying to break free, and that’s no way to live. I would advise women in abusive marriages to keep a diary and keep in close contact with friends and other family members. The more witnesses you have to mental cruelty, the easier it is to build a case against someone. I don’t believe in NFD’s. I think all divorces should be contested. ALL of them. That way you would have no trouble getting away from someone like that, plus you’d be able to sue for damages. You can really do a number on an abuser that way.
While not the same thing, my wife had been horribly abused by her ex-bf. We never made it to the level of restraining order, but we did get him arrested on a misdemeanor. That was enough to send a message, and he has been scared of us ever since. My ex fiancée was especially heinous and would stalk me while I was with my girlfriend. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you miss the signs and end up married to someone. But there are also ways of turning the tables and making life a living hell until they either end up institutionalized, in prison, or in a grave. Abuse and injustice are things you should never tolerate.
If you initiate a divorce, I say best make it a contested divorce so everyone knows there is a good REASON for it. If you are the victim of a cheater who just wants to dump you for someone else and the marriage is otherwise fine, don’t accept the NFD. They are acting dishonorably to get rid of you, they therefore don’t deserve honor from you. If they must leave, make it hurt.
Speaking of: Divorce exists precisely because of your experiences. You can either die married or die trying to break free, and that’s no way to live. I would advise women in abusive marriages to keep a diary and keep in close contact with friends and other family members. The more witnesses you have to mental cruelty, the easier it is to build a case against someone. I don’t believe in NFD’s. I think all divorces should be contested. ALL of them. That way you would have no trouble getting away from someone like that, plus you’d be able to sue for damages. You can really do a number on an abuser that way.
While not the same thing, my wife had been horribly abused by her ex-bf. We never made it to the level of restraining order, but we did get him arrested on a misdemeanor. That was enough to send a message, and he has been scared of us ever since. My ex fiancée was especially heinous and would stalk me while I was with my girlfriend. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you miss the signs and end up married to someone. But there are also ways of turning the tables and making life a living hell until they either end up institutionalized, in prison, or in a grave. Abuse and injustice are things you should never tolerate.
If you initiate a divorce, I say best make it a contested divorce so everyone knows there is a good REASON for it. If you are the victim of a cheater who just wants to dump you for someone else and the marriage is otherwise fine, don’t accept the NFD. They are acting dishonorably to get rid of you, they therefore don’t deserve honor from you. If they must leave, make it hurt.
... ... ...
Hello, nice to coincide with you here in WP yet again...NT, here, happily married to by beloved (Aspie) husband...Remember me?...Former Paralegal with appx 1 decade of experience who specialized in civil litigation...America is a highly litigious society...And, much like you, i was once in the middle of the action...That was fun
...Fortunately for me, i was suing on behalf of the victims...And for the most part, our clients' cases had a positive outcome...I made sure NOT to work with criminal matters, so that i would not deal with some of the worst in society...Nor did i work in dissolving marriages, so that i did not become cynical and pessimistic about love and relationships... By reading your reply above, it is evident to me that you enjoy what you do...And it is also evident to me that you do a formidable job representing the legal interests of your clients...
...However, as Legal Assistants, we should be careful NOT to lose our humanity (for lack of a better word)...Please allow me to explain myself...My legal mentor--former associate to Melvin Mouron Belli (Chief lawyer for Jack Ruby)--had a family law partner, next door from us...Occasionally, i was called to act as an interpreter for one of their clients seeking a DOM...These brief communications gave me a glimpse of what you are describing above...And, with all due respect, i did NOT like what i saw...Sometimes, the reason for seeking a DOM was irreconcilable differences, not necessarily involving domestic violence or the like...And the client would specifically express his or her desire to amicably terminate the marriage, but much like you, the attorney would insist on contesting it...At other times, it was evident to me that given the right conditions, the marriage could be salvaged, even when there was cheating involved...Yet, the attorney's aggressive and contentious tactics prevented an amicable outcome between the parties involved and often resulted in a much more costly DOM...
I fully understand that your clients deserve to have the best legal representation possible...And, in my humble opinion, at least in some cases, sometimes the best representation is a NEUTRAL attorney-mediator when the state law allows for it...At other times, marriage counseling may salvage the marriage...How i wish people knew that there may be an alternative to a contested DOM...Thank you for reading...And greetings from CA..
I’m a musician. I just worked as a temp while between degrees. I learned a lot in 5 months, though. My wife is the expert. As she gained experience, she moved away from divorces and focused on bankruptcy, eventually becoming one of only two certified bankruptcy paralegals in Mississippi.
We both absolutely hate the concept of divorce. In my short experience, I noticed that the threat of contested divorces was more like leverage or blackmail. If I were in the defendant’s shoes and I’d been caught in adultery, heck yeah I’d take the deal on a NFD. It would be better than I deserved. That’s just being smart. Most of the time when that situation happens, the plaintiff doesn’t care about the cheating, she just wants out of the marriage. If the cheating husband kicks his heels up, her lawyer essentially says we can do this easy, or we can do this real easy.
California marriage laws are COMPLEX. I’m guessing that owes to the entertainment industry along with other high income interests in the state. Mississippi laws aren’t that deep, but Mississippi is known for some extremely messed up tort practices. You can get sued for just about anything in Mississippi! In California y’all just stick cancer labels on everything.
Most jurisdictions seem to work to make divorce more last resort, and there does seem to be more of an effort to start with marriage counseling and reconciliation than jumping straight to divorce proceedings. And that’s where I think couples should start, with some kind of counseling or therapy to make things work. I remember one couple, not a client but a friend’s kid, who had separated for a few weeks because reasons. She was dead set on divorce, he wanted to work things out, and they eventually got back together. I think the reason they got married was she was pregnant, and I think it was more both sets of parents were working to keep them together. It’s really situations like that when both sets of parents get along well and provide that support for their children that make it easier for couples to stay together even when things get rough. This couple in particular...nobody would ever accuse them of maturity. Every marriage needs to be tested early on so couples will be used to tackling things together. Single life is defo easier because you don’t have to deal with the risk. But marriage is more fun because the work pays off.Before we even got married, we agreed that divorce wasn’t even an option. It was just out of the question. This really is for life, and our vows are something we take seriously. I think that’s where it seems I’m a bit controlling. Not long after we had our first baby, her friends started telling her she needed to divorce me. There’s a long backstory to why they said that, but mainly it was they didn’t even know us or me and the first thing they say is get a divorce? And I knew something was going on because 1) she never wanted to talk about anything and 2) her attitude towards me dramatically changed every time she was out with the girls. Where the stuff hit the fan was when she went for a girl’s night out and some other guy dropped her off at the house. She was drunk as a skunk, too. I was, like, ok, why are you out getting drunk and you don’t even call me to come get you? And if this was a girls night out, what was your friend’s husband even doing there? Well, who else’s husband got invited, and why do they have a problem with me? That was probably one of our first actual fights after our oldest was born. A lot came out after that, and we are no longer friends with those women. I just wasn’t going to stand for other people dragging me and my wife not even say anything about it. If my friends had said negative things about my wife, things might have gotten physical.
Part of that backstory was the usual ups and downs with getting finances straight and having babies in the house. Nobody tells you how to do this stuff, you just kinda have to figure out on your own or pray that you’re reading the right books. There were no grandparents around to help, and friends were even less help than that. We continue to have money issues because we just moved and only one of us has a job. We learned that being behind on your cell phone bill is not the biggest deal in the world, medical bill collectors don’t have that much power, and expect insurance people to be incompetent and lazy. We pour close to 100% of tax refunds into paying ahead on utilities and never have to pay monthly bills. You would never know just by looking at us how broke we are. But we’re never under any strain, we avoid negative people, we have few worries, our kids are healthy...we pretty much live like royalty on just $30k.
Nobody tells you stuff like that. They just say get a good job, and if he gets fired, just divorce him and be happy. Nobody tells you these are the traps to avoid, here is how you move your career forward, this is how you be smart with your money, these are the people you hang out with, this is the church you go to. Either you start out with six figures after college or get used to single life—that’s the narrative, and because you’re a nice person and want to be good to everyone, you do what everyone says and don’t bother judging people even if they might be bums, losers, and scammers. They don’t tell you there’s a timeline for success, just work hard and wait. And then you get burned enough and you give everything you have away because you want to help people and have nothing for yourself or your own family...you get done being the “nice guy” and “listening” and taking advice you KNOW is bad because you’ve heard it all before, and you get tired of all the drunks and the wh*res and the b!tches (this is the kind of stuff my wife would say) and you become one of those people who just smile and nod and say things like “I’m so sorry, I’ll be praying for you and your husband/family that God will lead you” knowing they’re going to do whatever they want anyway. We don’t waste time, we enjoy our time together, our teenager, the other two kids, and the new baby.
Divorce to us is only for “those” people, bless their hearts. We do understand that men abuse women, women abuse men, people cheat, fall out of love, blah blah yaddah. Things are great until you find out how hard marriage really is, then you miss the joy of it when you take the easy way out. Even being “in love” takes more energy than us old folks have. Now it’s just about having great sex. There’s so much more to this thing than feelings of being in love. If both of you don’t 100% totally commit all of yourselves to it, all your money, all your time, all of your job, everything, you’re not really going to get much out of it.
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