Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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MissConstrue
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02 Sep 2008, 1:35 am

KingChaosNinja wrote:

MissConstrue wrote:

I know I've been hurt many times which I blame myself for not that there is anyone to blame.

Catholic guilt?

But anyways I've kinda made myself an emotional masochist at this point because I figure that no matter how much I suffer, I did have some really good times with some good people before even if it didn't work out and that hopefully through going through this I'll achieve what I'm hoping for. I alway hold on to a few precious memories that no one can touch that I know will always outweigh everything else in my mind.

Quote:

Catholic guilt?

Agnostic-atheist.

Quote:

But anyways I've kinda made myself an emotional masochist at this point because I figure that no matter how much I suffer, I did have some really good times with some good people before even if it didn't work out and that hopefully through going through this I'll achieve what I'm hoping for.

I'm not the Catholic priest... :lol:

...But nothing is certain but death and taxes, so don't always think that everything is certain even as an adult my Boy. Well that's my view anyway. :lol:

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KingChaosNinja
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02 Sep 2008, 1:42 am

I was raised Catholic so when other people feel unnecessarily guilty I just assume. And I know nothing is certain but the way I see it in the grand scheme of things is like this; I could just as easily not exist, nothing could exist, and my life could be filled with endless torment and suffering. I could be poor starving and diseased in some 3rd world nation where I'm used as slave labor. But I'm not, and I've had some really amazing things happen to me in my life. I've done a lot more than I thought I'd ever would. If another good thing never happens to me again for the rest of my existence I'd be fine knowing that. I'm still going to go for broke though.

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MissConstrue
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02 Sep 2008, 1:50 am

Well I don't know but I was raised that there is no all or nothing in life however I know what you mean. So I'm no expert either.

Can't really give anymore feedback except that it's never that easy. I don't think defining that which hasn't been classified or scientifically proven yet is very healthy in my opinion.

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AngryJessman
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02 Sep 2008, 5:28 am

i used to be a bully near the start of high school, chicks loved me & most blokes were being kiss a$$es, i have no regrets because the strange thing is that when i started to calm down and pity people in my class who couldn't defend themselves, i ended up being bagged and insulted.......i think its because most kids are insecure and would rather relate to each others anger and hate than the embarassment of being truthfull and real

^this situation has coursed me to have an outrage against the so called "normal" people, they are weak and very pityfull, if it wasn't for them being immature i'd swear most of them don't have a heart at all

i ended up being friends with a rival bully, why, because he has the guts to bag you to your face, not behind your back and slander your good will, like others

now that im out of school, i have a much more clear view of what happened, when you there sh*ts confusing cos theres so much mindgames going on

MissConstrue
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03 Sep 2008, 7:05 am

Yeah, it's easy to slip into anything when it's bad enough espeacially when you don't understand how this social hierarchy thingy goes.

It's people that are two faced that get to me rather than the confrontational ones.

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Hector
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03 Sep 2008, 7:56 am

I always feel like I'm alone on this topic. Most of the nice guys I know don't have that much trouble finding dates. I'd hazard a guess that I'm not terribly pleasant for company compared with them. There's the issue of being boring, but I don't think that nice guys are necessarily boring. In fact I'd say that's obviously false.

Vexcalibur
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03 Sep 2008, 8:27 am

what the heck?

Didn't we have a topic exactly like this, with exactly the same first post and exactly the same replies before? But this whole thread is dated after September 1st? non-sense.

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Funaho
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03 Sep 2008, 10:50 am

Hector wrote:

Definitely not alone. I know I'm the only one of my friends now who isn't engaged or at least living with a long-term SO. I don't even really see them anymore now; it's basically like not having any friends....high school all over again.

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Betterclassed
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04 Sep 2008, 5:13 am

AutisticMalcontent wrote:

And last, but not least, I will address you, Betterclassed:

You say that you want to start a theoretical revolution of the argument "nice guys vs. jerks". I won't deny that I admire your rather upbeat, positive tone on this matter, with the elimination of stereotypes concerning love, nice guys might feel that them might actually have a chance.

The reason why nice guys don't really try, as you stated, is because shy guys tend to put up a barrier for themselves because they are afraid of the worse case scenario that might occur if they attempted to start things romantically. The fear of rejection outweighs the possible benefits, we nice guys don't have a lot of faith in our abilities at love.

However, confidence and forwardness is easier said than done. Confidence and adding a little "anarchy" is not in our nature. By doing these things, we are being untrue to who we really are. You can't expect a dog to fly or a squid to run, likewise you can't expect a nice guy to be so bold and rash. Even if we tried to be so romantically assertive, there is only so long we can pull such an act of before we end up making fools of ourselves.

It is like a guy pretending to be a CEO of a top corporation to impress a girl he likes when in reality he is only low-level employee of that company. Soon or later, she will find out and then she will not care for him at all and leave.

The movie "Hitch" with Will Smith and Kevin James is a perfect example. When Smith talks to the girl that Kevin James liked, Allegra Cole. Here was their conversation in the movie:

Alex Hitchins (Will Smith): "Would you have noticed him otherwise?"

Allegra Cole: "Yes!"

Alex Hitchins: "Really?"

Allegra Cole: "Eventually..."

Allegra Cole: "...Maybe"

Exactly, it was not Kevin James's character in the movie to be so assertive and charming romantically, he had help from Hitch, and Allegra Cole bought everything hook, line, and sinker until she found out that Kevin James wasn't really like that and that he had help. Then she resented both of them for decieving her. But the trust of the matter is that she would have not even noticed Kevin James's character if it hadn't been for Hitch, which goes to show that nice guys are not well adapted to such enviroments. All though the movie is fictious, it brings up a very good point.

I see. Thanks for the response.

thedarkpassenger
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04 Sep 2008, 8:55 am

AutisticMalcontent wrote:

Well I'm going to cite off a cliche' that everyone is familiar with- "Nice guys finish last". I am a strong believer in this cliche', the reasons being very simple, according to what I've observed. First off all, nice guys are typically "normal" and are not nearly as interesting/exciting and wild as overly confident guys/jerks/charming guys. Note that I am not using jerks as a synonym for all confident guys romantically, just a select group. Secondly, nice guys tend to be shy and not nearly as assertive romantically like confident guys tend to be. And finally, nice guys, in their shyness, don't understand about how to approach girls/women romantically, and therefore they appear awkward around them.

These are the reasons why nice guys fail I believe. But I also have another belief and I'm curious as to how many agree with me on this. Since nice guys are often rejected because of their shyness, girls tend to go out with guys that exude confidence, and who also tend to be jerks after a while. This is my opinion, I think that girls who reject nice guys and date jerk-type guys more than deserve the heartache they will eventually feel, whether it be a bad breakup, being used, or whatever else. I'm not saying that every girl has to date one particular nice guy, but I'm saying that if a girl rejects a nice guy for a jerk, isn't it fitting that she pay the consequence of her choice? Kind of like the physics principle "For every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction"? Just my thoughts, tell me what you guys think

Arrogance and confidence go hand in hand with accomplishments. Back in the caveman days, a female would need to find a strong and capable man to protect her and her family from mountain lions and to go out and kill animals for dinner.

It's no different today. Women want a strong and confident man that can take care of them, and give them a good lifestyle. Usually, the shy, nice guy isn't seen as assertive. Women want a man who takes charge, and goes after what he wants and gets it. This requires confidence, and being cocky shows the world you're overly confident in yourself. Women eat this up.
They need to have a man that they can respect and be confident in their abilities. By being a cocky, arrogant guy, you show women that you ARE confident and that you demand their respect. Subconsiously, women are attracted to this. They feel safe and they know you'll take care of them --- that's why nice guys finish last. Nice guys don't show women their value to them, and cocky guys do.

Women need that "as*hole" quality sometimes, to spark a real physical attraction to a man. Being a nice guy just shows women that you are a good person, and in that respect, you will never be seen by her as more than a "friend." To bypass the "friend" stage, you need to act like a real man and show her that you can do what it takes to be confident and take charge. It's strange and seems not logical, but this is all played out subconciously. Why do you think women run back to men that treat them like crap? Because they know men that treat them like crap are confident that they can find another women --- and that confidence alone keeps that hanging around. It's sick, but if played correctly, women will LOVE you for it.

AutisticMalcontent
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04 Sep 2008, 12:51 pm

Pretty pathetic isn't it, Dark Passenger? That women would be so terribly foolish as to be attracted to jerks simply because they are confident. It is almost as pathetic as a man who kicks a dog and the dog comes wimpering back to him, looking for affection. Women may have different ideas, attitudes, and opinions, but if they are stupid enough to trust in jerks who mistreat them, then they have their reward, may it serve them well

That's why I don't have much faith in extroverted women. Introverted women I could work well with, but the more extroverted you are, the more prone you are to fall for such traps I think.

thedarkpassenger
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04 Sep 2008, 1:04 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:

That's why I don't have much faith in extroverted women. Introverted women I could work well with, but the more extroverted you are, the more prone you are to fall for such traps I think.

Very well said, and 100% agreed. It baffles me to this day...go figure

Funaho
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04 Sep 2008, 5:04 pm

Yeah it is pathetic...or at least just sad. I don't know about the rest of y'all but I simply CANNOT play the part of the macho confident guy. It's just not me, and if I even try I just feel like a total f-ing idiot and a fake, and in a way it even makes me feel dirty, like i've just done something terribly, terribly wrong.

Sigh...I guess I might as well get used to this life.

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AutisticMalcontent
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04 Sep 2008, 5:47 pm

Funaho,

As Ralph Waldo Emerson said "To thine own self be true". I'm not sure if he stole that quote from Shakespeare, but that is irrelevant. We men don't have to be macho and the epitome of masculinity. Girls might buy into that, but they'll be severely dissapointed in their futile efforts.

Considering this, if we are not well adapted to the methods of wooing females with macho appearences, there are always dating sites to look for. True, some might consider it a desperate means of finding love, but let's be honest, as long as you find compatible love, that's all that matters, not what means you took to find it. The ends justify the means in this sense. You have a girl who is interested in dating/romance and you are interested in romance, it saves the effort of trying to be charismatic and charming.

pineapple
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