Renouncing marriage and children

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BokeKaeru
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16 Jan 2009, 2:20 am

graemephillips wrote:

BokeKaeru wrote:

I'm also not going to take part and get trapped in the whole "a husband, two kids, a dog and a white picket fence" deal. If I have a companion at some point, I'll only do the marriage thing if it means a lot to them (and if I get to wear a tuxedo instead a giant frill-fest).

But DEFINITELY no plans to have kids. I'm uncompromisingly asexual and would want a platonic partnership only. Loud noises and certain food textures/smells (which happen to be found in most baby foods) cause me immense discomfort. After 16 operations and uncountable other uncomfortable and unwelcome hospital visits, I'd like to avoid the places and any situation that would put me in one as much as I possibly can for the rest of my life (it astounds me that enough women are masochistic enough to LIKE pregnancy and giving birth, not only doing it once but sometimes numerous times). Closely related to my pain and hospital aversions is their cause - namely, a cleft palate, cleft lip, chronic anemia, a faulty digestive system, a rare skin condition called ectodermal dysplasia, a congenital brain tumor and any number of weird mental conditions that may or may not place me on the spectrum, with 10 of those 16 operations necessary to my functioning (don't ask about the rest - that I wouldn't inflict on anyone of any age). I'm certainly by no standards the ideal genetic material, and I'd be just plain cruel to put anyone else through that in some misguided belief that the world needs more of my genes running around. Besides, I'm going to be a lawyer, which will leave me probably just enough time to take care of a cat, let alone a kid. If I reach a point in life where I really want to raise another person, I'll adopt - there's no reason to make more people when there's so many out there who need protection and love already.

I can't abide by all that "obey your husband" stuff, either. I've spent too much time trying to take control of my body and my life away from other people who couldn't see beyond their own conceptions of "for my own good" to give it up again so easily. I'd be much happier as the leader in a relationship, with of course reasonable accommodation of the other person as is needed and fitting. I'd sooner throw in the towel in terms of finding a "happily ever after" and become a crazy cat lady than I would become subservient to another person.

If I did find the person I was looking for, I'd make sure I'd be worth having around forever to them - because they certainly would be to me.

I think you have probably gotten the wrong idea in terms of my perceptions of marital roles. You have confused the idea of genders having equal but different roles with the idea of one gender being subservient to the other. Christianity advocates the first one and not the second. Check Galatians 3:28 if you don't believe me.

Concerning your penultimate paragraph again, I completely agree that it is better to be on the shelf than in the wrong cupboard. If I can't find a godly woman who I want to marry and who wants to marry me, there is nothing wrong with being single for the rest of my life.

I completely understand your struggle for control of your own life. Sometimes my desire to maintain control of my own life goes too far and causes alienation from those who are genuinely trying to help me, but I nevertheless wish I had made more efforts to control my own life sooner.

Good luck in becoming a lawyer. I hope it turns out to be the rewarding career you want. I wish you success in the road to becoming a lawyer. The long hours are a reason why I don't fancy being a lawyer myself, but each to their own. In case anyone is daft enough to think my views on family life mean I oppose working women, please check Proverbs 31:10-31 before you comment.

I am sorry to hear about your large number of operations. I hope that you will enjoy reasonable health during the rest of your life, even if your body hasn't been terribly kind to you so far. It must be fairly awful to suffer all those things concurrently or within a short space of time.

Thank you for clearing things up, and for your good wishes. I (think I) understand a little bit better now, and I'm glad your response wasn't meant to annoy. Good night.

TheCaityCat
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16 Jan 2009, 4:18 am

LadyKathleen wrote:

I decided to remain childless by choice bc i know i would make a lousy parent bc i do not get emotionally attached to children the way a mom should... i cant deal with the duties of being a parent i want to get my tubes cut so i cant get pregnant if i decide to have sex one day but i will most likely have to wait bc im only 20
I also dont want to get married until i find the right person and get a stable career and have my own place. I am not some girl who has sex and gets pregnant and expects to keep her man i am not the kind of person with wedding bells ringing in my ears never was..all that fou fou stuff never did it for me because marriage to me is more than just a party and i am disgusted that more than half of all marriages divorce

Ladies there is nothing wrong with being an independent woman and if you do find love and have children someday i know you'll make the best wives and mothers any guy could ask 4

Hey, good for you for knowing what you want early on. Kids aren't for everyone; I don't want them either and I've known this since I was maybe 13. I'm investigating sterilization options for when I finish school. A long-term (perhaps lifelong) romantic partnership is fine by me, but kids are a dealbreaker.

I'd rather regret NOT having kids than having kids and regretting it later, if that makes sense. If I must be around children, I've got nieces and nephews.

graemephillips
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Joined: 9 Feb 2008
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16 Jan 2009, 4:36 am

TheCaityCat wrote:

LadyKathleen wrote:

Up until fairly recently, I wasn't especially enthusiastic about having children. Now I am absolutely certain that I do want children. I am currently 25. You are 1 year younger than me and today's lower mortality rates mean you will more than likely have a long period of time where you could conceivably change your mind. If there is the slightest possibility that you might change your mind, either gradually, or as rapidly as I did, there are other more suitable contraceptive methods.

One method that you might be inclined to consider is a course of Depo-Provera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depo-Provera), where you receive injections every 3 months and fertility can be restored in 3-18 months by simply letting the injection course lapse.

rykatemom
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12 Mar 2009, 12:26 am

graemephillips wrote:

I am a male with Asperger's syndrome and I intend to have children regardless of the risk of them having Asperger's syndrome too. If they do, I will raise them to think that they are just as entitled to reproduce and I will make sure they don't grow up thinking they have to settle for the first woman who has an interest in them because of perceptions that they are unlovable on account of having Asperger's syndrome. I will want them to think they are just as entitled to satisfying relationships as anyone else.

I would happily have children even if it were certain that they would be on the spectrum too. I refuse to be bound by society's ideas about what types of personality people should have.

I feel so strongly about my reproduction rights that I am a sperm donor. I have listed Asperger's syndrome as being part of a long list of conditions in my family, so I have complied with disclosure rules. I would encourage all men on the autistic spectrum to do the same if they are able.

graemephillips, good for you. I have AS myself as well, and my son has AS, and I also have a daughter. I will support my children in whatever decision they make, but I personally believe very firmly that these disorders we all have do not alienate us of our right to celebrate life and it's continuity, or their right to participate in the miracle that is life.

I wish you the very best, and hope that you find the perfect person to share your dreams with, and revel in the miracles of life with.

Blessed Be,

kelly

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"To be nobody but yourself in a world that's doing its best to make you somebody else, is to fight the hardest battle you are ever going to fight. Never stop fighting." ~e. e. cummings

phil777
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12 Mar 2009, 12:38 am

I could have children provided i'd find a mate, since the posibility of my AS genes being passed are somewhat foggy (i'd have to test my DNA but as far as i'm concerned, my AS is environnementally caused, hence it shouldn't be passed, same as my ADD). Leaves the question of wether i would consciously want to add the burden of raising a child in the world such as it is now. =/ I have no doubt i'd make a pretty good parent though...

LemonBubblez
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12 Mar 2009, 6:03 am

I will not be having children. I'm not sure whether I have AS or not but either way people have shown a disinterest in my genes by a disinterest in me in general. And that's why I don't want to pass my genes on, to respect the world's wishes. Do unto others as you would have done unto you, even if they do unto you what you would not have.

graemephillips
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12 Mar 2009, 6:24 am

LemonBubblez wrote:

With regard to your statements about what the world thinks of you, I would paraphrase Lauren Cooper by asking, "Are you bovvered?"

LemonBubblez
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12 Mar 2009, 6:39 am

graemephillips wrote:

"Are you bovvered?"

I had to look that up (UK slang >.<).

Am I bothered? By some things. I do not intend lack of children to be one of them. Neither do I intend the world's opinion to be. Whether I get into any kind of relationship is also ultimately their choice but meh, if they don't want it, let it be.

Rjaye
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13 Mar 2009, 5:30 am

graemephillips wrote:

If you think I am ignorant as to what the religions are about, then go ahead and enlighten me.

I didn't say Buddhism is a rut, I said that it is wrongly viewed as a solution to being in a rut.

Buddhism was popular in the 1960s with hippies going to Eastern Asia seeking spiritual enlightenment and in more recent years, it has been made even more trendy by Hollywood stars like Richard Gere and his wife taking it up. Even more recently, Kabbalah was made trendy by Madonna taking it up: - many Californians subsequently viewed it as their badge of being a smug, tolerant and open-minded liberal.

An idea being old doesn't necessarily make it valid. People believed for several years that the earth was flat until various people started proving this wrong.

Graeme, I find your answer interesting in that one of the arguments for Christianity is that it must be the "true religion" as it's been around for several thousand years. I didn't make myself clear. My point was that as one of the world's three great religions, it's not some fad.

You've also slotted me into the smug section...I'll take tolerant and open-minded.

I don't know what to think except I find you...strange. You make arguments without proof, you make racist statements, you diss other's religions, you're a sperm donor because you "believe in it." You generalize about groups of people that dollars to donuts you don't really know that much about, and you watch too much tv.

You live in your mother's basement, don't you?

Rjaye
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13 Mar 2009, 5:31 am

graemephillips wrote:

Graeme, I find your answer interesting in that one of the arguments for Christianity is that it must be the "true religion" as it's been around for several thousand years. I didn't make myself clear. My point was that as one of the world's three great religions, Buddhism not some fad.

You've also slotted me into the smug section...I'll take tolerant and open-minded.

I don't know what to think except I find you...strange. You make arguments without proof, you make racist statements, you diss other's religions, you're a sperm donor because you "believe in it." You generalize about groups of people that dollars to donuts you don't really know that much about, and you watch too much tv.

You live in your mother's basement, don't you?

graemephillips
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13 Mar 2009, 6:03 am

Rjaye wrote:

graemephillips wrote:

Graeme, I find your answer interesting in that one of the arguments for Christianity is that it must be the "true religion" as it's been around for several thousand years. I didn't make myself clear. My point was that as one of the world's three great religions, Buddhism not some fad.

You've also slotted me into the smug section...I'll take tolerant and open-minded.

I don't know what to think except I find you...strange. You make arguments without proof, you make racist statements, you diss other's religions, you're a sperm donor because you "believe in it." You generalize about groups of people that dollars to donuts you don't really know that much about, and you watch too much tv.

You live in your mother's basement, don't you?

I would find it difficult to substantiate an argument that I watch too much TV. My residence doesn't have a TV because my landlord is one of those evangelicals who think TV is of the world, evil, this, that and the other.

I don't see anything wrong with dissing other people's religions: - I do not claim to worship the God of secular relativistic tolerance.

I don't live in my mother's basement. I live as a lodger in a house owned by a member of my church on the top floor (there are 3 floors). My parents live a couple of hours drive from me.

I never said that Christianity's age made it the only religion that leads to salvation. There are several older religions that do not lead to God.

I never said I didn't know that Buddhism dates back to before the Hollywood left started to view it as trendy in the 1960s or so. However, a religion being old doesn't mean it can't become a retro fad among Hollywood's liberal élite.

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