Bigotry against involuntarily celibate men
goldfish21
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
If you hate your symptoms so badly, why don't you treat them?
*shrug* I'll never understand why people here complain, complain, complain that they can't stand abc and xyz symptom and how they affect their life, yet they're unwilling to consider treating them and seeing if they feel better.
To each their own, I suppose.
I made my choice over 5 years ago & have less than zero regrets about it. Life is night and day better in every way.
Autism is not treatable. All experts in neurology agree on this.
BS. I've been treating it for over 5 years & am Very high functioning to the point that only One person I've met in the last 5 years recognized me as autistic - and that's only because he has an autistic brother and my symptoms were acting up at the time.
Besides what I do to treat my symptoms (medicine, not talk therapy or learning to mimic someone's behaviours) that enables me to live a much fuller, more normal, life, there are other treatments for Autism that are much more common that have measurable proven results. ABA is probably the most common and well known.
Not everyone is as high functioning as you are. And many who are do not have access to proper medication because we are undiagnosed. Many do not have the fortune of living in an area with access to specialists qualified to diagnose adults, can afford the costs of visiting said specialists, or both.
So what?
I treat my symptoms via diet, supplements, probiotics, and intestinal cleanses. The gut dysbiosis part of ASD is entirely treatable. According to medical stats on chemical sensitivities of ASD people, this should apply to 70% of people on the spectrum. When I started doing this for myself I was living in my friend's construction site (sort of), trading what labour I could manage for a roof over my head and food to eat, & had an income of a whopping $150cdn/month.
Prior to figuring things out, my symptoms were unimaginably bad and completely life hindering. My doctor said there was nothing he could do because there are no drugs for this. But I Knew I wasn't always that bad and that if something could make it worse, something could make it better. I just had to figure out what it was and what to do. So, meeting the right people at the right time in my life and 10,000+ pages of reading later, I figured it out and have been treating my symptoms ever since.
And now there're ASD medical studies published since that point to Exactly what I said was true about ASD over 5 years ago when I shared here on WP how I'd been treating my symptoms with miraculous results. In time more people will accept all of this as medical fact and more will opt to treat their symptoms. In the meantime, the vast majority of forum members are just here to complain and vent vs. try to improve themselves and their lives.
You said you met the right people at the right time. That was completely depeandant on luck and is unlikely to replicate for most people.
I met an Herbalist who's father is a Naturopathic Doctor. I learned a few key things from them in conversation, and also learned to open my mind about medicine - about natural medicines, plants, healing foods etc. Combine all that with my own reading and determination and I figured things out and then did things for myself.
I also didn't keep it to myself. I posted everything I do to treat my symptoms here on WP for anyone to read, learn from, and try for themselves. They don't have to have a chance meeting of an Herbalist, and then his Naturopathic Doctor father. I already did that, learned things, applied them, realized the results for myself And shared exactly what I learned and did. No replication of meeting people required. All one would have to do to replicate my results is to try what I have done for myself and see if it works for them.
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No for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
Try exercising, it keeps you healthy physically and mentally. I suffer from depression which right now I would say is about 6/10 on a bad scale. A year ago it was 10/10 and I was an utter mess, I've been keeping fitter ever since and slowly I'm becoming more like my old self.
A run a day keeps depression away
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Everyone is different but we should still accept them but to be accepted for being different you still have to fight for it cause that is how real life is.
Being a hero isn't about fame and glory, it's about being willing to risk yourself and do good for others.
auntblabby
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
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Location: the island of defective toy santas
MushroomPrincess
Deinonychus
Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 335
Location: Turtle Island
Men's biggest fear is that she'll say no, while women's biggest fear is that he won't take no for an answer.
When put into this perspective it should be pretty obvious why bigotry against incel men is a thing. Incel culture essentially flips the script, and centers the conversation (on sexual assault, street harassment, mass violence etc.) around male experiences, when accomodating men's fears and insecurities should clearly be the lesser priority. I get catcalled, slutshamed, assaulted, called nasty names, etc. etc. pretty regularly, just for existing as a comely and vibrant blonde woman in a bigoted and patriarchal society. If your lack of a girlfriend is the worst of your worries, then you really have no business claiming to be a target of "bigotry" tbqh
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Hmm, some good points.. but I don't think involuntarily celibate men are necessarily on the receiving end of much bigotry for being involuntarily celibate, so I don't think that's what they're complaining about. I think they're on the receiving end of bigotry for all the things about them that make them involuntarily celibate. For those reasons, I feel for some of them for sure.
The ones I don't feel sad AT ALL for in this forum are the ones who go on endlessly about wanting a girlfriend, get given tonnes of fantastic advice from people all over the world on what they can do to better their chances, make themselves more attractive etc and so forth, and then choose to change exactly NOTHING about themselves and then get upset that they don't have a different result. (of having a girlfriend.) Those particular people need to accept that they don't DESERVE a girlfriend because they're not willing to do ANY work (on themselves) in order to "earn," (attract) one so to speak/for lack of a better word. Acknowledging that you don't have many attractive qualities is one thing, realizing what things women find attractive is another.. but there has to be a connection made between the two and decisive action taken to make oneself more attractive for anything to change in real life. Not willing to put in any effort to attract a girlfriend? Well then, I hope you truly do enjoy your solitude because you're going to have LOOOOOOTS of it.
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No for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
That's a long term side effect, but otherwise you can't go wrong
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Everyone is different but we should still accept them but to be accepted for being different you still have to fight for it cause that is how real life is.
Being a hero isn't about fame and glory, it's about being willing to risk yourself and do good for others.
Forget all the figures. Forget all the 10,000s. Just pursue your interests. Having an interest in SOMETHING is 3/4's of the battle.
I was "involuntarily celibate" for long periods in my 20's. I always had a "faith" that this would change. I knew I had to not seem desperate to women. That's the most important thing: "not seeming desperate."
Not seeming desperate doesn't work if nobody finds you appealing to begin with. You think I run around IRL begging women to date me? No sir. Between my trust issues and anxiety, I'm bloody hard to get. Nobody has ever given me the tiniest bit of interest though. The reason I don't have faith in this changing isn't because I subscribe to redpill or incel ideologies, but rather because my personal experience is that no woman finds me attractive in any way.
I don't know why I'm so repulsive, because literally everything about me can be found in plenty of other socially successful men. I've seen desperate guys get and keep girlfriends, jobless guys, fat guys, short guys, sexist guys, wimps, etcetera.
There's just something off about me that I've never figured out, and I've long given up trying to figure out it. I'm not fat or super-skinny, I don't have any deformities, I'm not completely brain-dead, I like to think I'm not pure evil, I'm not a NEET. I just don't understand what about me is the issue.
It's not that men must always initiate, it's that women seldom do, so if I want a relationship and no one initiates anything with me, my only option is to take the initiative. As for your contention with the concept of sexual market value, you're allowed to believe that, but the way I see it every relationship, friendship, and work relationship is transactional in nature. There's give and take, and if you have nothing to give you're going to be overlooked. If you disagree, explain the logic behind why.
I already have a pretty good idea of why women aren't attracted to me, and I'm taking steps to rectify the things that hinder my chances with women, for instance my weight and physique are not only likely not attractive to most women, but I dont like them either, so I'm limiting my intake of junk food and trying to get more exercise into my life. But sure, I'm not trying something that might work.
It's good that you're trying to take better care of yourself and that will surely increase your chances, but you should be aware that keeping the mindset of all human interaction being transactional is going to be a problem for a lot of women and decreases your chances. Why not work on your perspective too, try to be less negative about humanity, if that can increase your chances as well?
I don't know how to explain to you why I believe that all human interaction is not transactional. I don't even know how to explain to you how my relationship with my pets isn't transactional. It's not about exhanging goods or information, it's about coexisting with them. Same to be said about friends and loved ones--yes we support each other and there is "give and take" in that, but it's not transactional in nature. It's about coexisting. There is something about the connection you make with someone when you are on the same wavelength that can't be explained in terms of transactions. It affirms your very existence in a way no transaction of goods or services can. When you share mental and emotional space with other people, it feeds your spirit in a way that is not a giving or a taking but rather a lifting up. I don't know how else to word it to explain my "logic", because it's esoteric and I don't know how logic in general can be applied to human interaction.
I really struggle to understand this transactional mindset, so it's hard for me to explain what it's like not to feel that way about relationships.
If relationships aren't transactional, then how come "what do you have to offer" and "you need to improve yourself so you have something to offer" are such common phrases in these kinds of discussions? Kind of implying a transaction there. Those are the first things I ever see when a guy complains about being lonely. The idea of simply "connecting" with somebody is rarely brought up.
Starbuck never commented on this. Perhaps that means she found nothing therein to object to.
I guess posts that can't be twisted into personal attacks or sexism must be rather boring to some people.
What are we discussing here?
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Everyone is different but we should still accept them but to be accepted for being different you still have to fight for it cause that is how real life is.
Being a hero isn't about fame and glory, it's about being willing to risk yourself and do good for others.
I'm sure that's not true. I used to think the same thing but now I'm married, in the end you meet that special someone and everything falls in to place. Be yourself and don't give up, you'll find someone in the end.
I'm sure that's not true. I used to think the same thing but now I'm married, in the end you meet that special someone and everything falls in to place. Be yourself and don't give up, you'll find someone in the end.
I used to feel like things would get better in the future, but they've consistently gotten worse with time. I'm just about 23 now and have zero relationship experience, no real friends, and severe depression. I can see everything falling into place quite clearly, but they're not nice places.
That's a long term side effect, but otherwise you can't go wrong
You don't have to run to keep fit. Walking & dancing works just as well, mostly without wearing your joints down as running do.
It's not that men must always initiate, it's that women seldom do, so if I want a relationship and no one initiates anything with me, my only option is to take the initiative. As for your contention with the concept of sexual market value, you're allowed to believe that, but the way I see it every relationship, friendship, and work relationship is transactional in nature. There's give and take, and if you have nothing to give you're going to be overlooked. If you disagree, explain the logic behind why.
I already have a pretty good idea of why women aren't attracted to me, and I'm taking steps to rectify the things that hinder my chances with women, for instance my weight and physique are not only likely not attractive to most women, but I dont like them either, so I'm limiting my intake of junk food and trying to get more exercise into my life. But sure, I'm not trying something that might work.
It's good that you're trying to take better care of yourself and that will surely increase your chances, but you should be aware that keeping the mindset of all human interaction being transactional is going to be a problem for a lot of women and decreases your chances. Why not work on your perspective too, try to be less negative about humanity, if that can increase your chances as well?
I don't know how to explain to you why I believe that all human interaction is not transactional. I don't even know how to explain to you how my relationship with my pets isn't transactional. It's not about exhanging goods or information, it's about coexisting with them. Same to be said about friends and loved ones--yes we support each other and there is "give and take" in that, but it's not transactional in nature. It's about coexisting. There is something about the connection you make with someone when you are on the same wavelength that can't be explained in terms of transactions. It affirms your very existence in a way no transaction of goods or services can. When you share mental and emotional space with other people, it feeds your spirit in a way that is not a giving or a taking but rather a lifting up. I don't know how else to word it to explain my "logic", because it's esoteric and I don't know how logic in general can be applied to human interaction.
I really struggle to understand this transactional mindset, so it's hard for me to explain what it's like not to feel that way about relationships.
If relationships aren't transactional, then how come "what do you have to offer" and "you need to improve yourself so you have something to offer" are such common phrases in these kinds of discussions? Kind of implying a transaction there. Those are the first things I ever see when a guy complains about being lonely. The idea of simply "connecting" with somebody is rarely brought up.
Starbuck never commented on this. Perhaps that means she found nothing therein to object to.
I guess posts that can't be twisted into personal attacks or sexism must be rather boring to some people.
Or maybe I'm trying to stay out of the conversation since I got nothing but hostility for my comments?
"Some people"--that's cute, are you trying to be subtle to avoid breaking the rules by making a direct personal attack by talking about me obliquely like this?
Incels push women away with hostility and rage and sexism and then have the gall and lack of self-awareness to complain that women won't talk to them or date them. I'm not going to continue a conversation here if you guys can't even be civil.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,579
Location: the island of defective toy santas
That's a long term side effect, but otherwise you can't go wrong
You don't have to run to keep fit. Walking & dancing works just as well, mostly without wearing your joints down as running do.
There are lots of good ways to stay fit without running. Walking and dancing do work well, but there's also:
1. Drinking water, cut out fizzy fatty drinks. Fizzy drinks can also lead to you feeling low and depressed after drinking them.
2. Cut out junk food.
3. Get enough sleep. Don't stay up watching things in bed.
And most importantly be as positive as you can be. Negativity and low willpower only makes things worse for you and your health. I still have depression but actually feel a lot happier and more relaxed since I started keeping fitter
_________________
Everyone is different but we should still accept them but to be accepted for being different you still have to fight for it cause that is how real life is.
Being a hero isn't about fame and glory, it's about being willing to risk yourself and do good for others.