Question for the women, trying to understand something.

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I understand where Ken is coming from though... If you don't get into a relationship, she's just going to leave you for the next interesting thing that comes along... often still dating you while also hooking up with the other guy... and that I would have to agree with Ken is disingenuous... if she (whoever she is) thinks it's not working out, I'd like to know... that way I have the opportunity to either try and fix it, or to come to a consensus that yes, this isn't exactly working out...

That's also part of why I absolutely refuse to even go out with a taken woman (even if it isn't a date)... if she's going to get with me before breaking up with an existing boyfriend, she's going to do the same to dump me later on...


Just being out with someone for the hell of it isn't a date... that's just two people out for lunch/dinner/movie/whatever... Even I have done that multiple times... but I've never been on an actual date because there was never any intimacy or any declared relationship to begin with...


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are adequate as you are... hell, you've actually been on a real date (I've been on a few non-date lunch/dinner outings with women before, but not any bona fide dates)... The only thing you need to change about yourself is modulating your output. Aspies in general have a problem with being too blunt... It's like playing music on a stereo: it can sound very nice, but if you crank up the volume too much you cause physical pain in those trying to listen to it...

So what I want you to do is this: If you want to say "I think we make a good couple", don't... Just have a generic line like "I think this was fun" or something related, and then hold on to the "couple" line... When you get home, log on to here and post a thread so you can let go of it. I do this all the time for all kinds of emotional issues... if you've ever seen me on a rant, that's just releasing emotional energy I've been holding on to all day. Most people in real life don't even know I have AS; they just think I'm a little taciturn (because if I have doubts as to whether I should say something or not, I opt to say nothing), but they are friendlier to me in general than people used to be (most people are even surprised if I tell them that I've never had a girlfriend)...

PS: I am probably the only person on this forum that will come to your defense against the horde of conformist jerks present on this thread... I am only asking you to change that one small thing, not your entire personality... so please, at the very least, listen to me...

After thinking about it for a bit today. People are right when I bring up the reltionship/ couple thing. Maybe I'm doing it too soon. But if I ever get another chance I'll do my best not to say anything like that and go with the flow, let them bring it up.

If on the third date she wants to go ring shopping though, i'm gone LOL.

I mostly agree with you (like 99% on what you wrote above), but I'd like to chime in on the low self esteem thing -- especially for younger guys, there is coming back from that, and in many cases finally getting a girlfriend really does help alleviate that. There's no instant fix, but there certainly will be improvement, and eventually, someone can really bloom out of it. Low self-esteem can take years to really develop, and an equal amount of time to fully heal, but it happens.

I think this is intuitive -- Everyone knows that guys get hit on the most once they are finally in a relationship, after years of not being in one and being ignored by those same women. It's the confidence created by the knowledge that he has someone (and the resulting lessening of desperation) that shows through in his body language and the way he interacts with the world.

So some people can be rescued -- it just depends on what they need rescuing from. I wouldn't try to rescue addicts of any kind, rageaholics, etc.

They can only be rescued if they want to be.

Glad to hear it. I am happy you thought this over and decided to leave it up to the women to decide and take what we said. I agree about the wedding ring shopping on the third date, that is too soon. That would also freak me out if a guy did it with me and I would tell him straight out "Are you crazy? We just met and we hardly know each other? Now you want to marry me? I think this is way too soon." Basically that answer implies "no" because I said it's too soon. I guess you really do want to change after all

There's your problem. You're giving out the desperate vibe. Most women don't want someone who is so intent on getting long term commitment so fast.

Just stop worrying about this stuff KenM. if you are desperate, then face it. if you are insecure then face it. heck, we are all aspies and it's hard not to be insecure dealing with this world we live in. I know its frustrating that guys don't get that awkward insecure vibe from aspie girls, but most girls do, and the ones who get that vibe, you don't need. everone is different, so accept your self my friend.

It also helps to know who you are targetting... for all we know you might be only trying to chat up supermodels...

Yeah, it's called the android vibe.

It's like invasions of the body snatchers?

See, you seem really intuitive, not in a magical sense of course. But, I think that intuitive people have a far greater chance at receiving love because they can sense it on a level in which most aspie men are incapable of learning/healing. I would guess that most aspie males here are robotic and because of that they will never experience love on the same scale which is idealized in society. So, why not find your own ideal and create your own love fulfillment. Perhaps you will find love in mundane activities? It's no less meaningful. Make your own bubble and don't let anyone pop it? Get my abstracts? Love is abstract.

Just to clarify, roadGames, I didn't write the above quote. Janissy was the author. My singular interaction with an aspie BF was anything but a scenario of rejection, so I can't relate at all.

That's probably the mature thing to do, and I certainly can't argue with the good sense of it. But, just keep in mind, Ken, some people do fall in love at first sight. It doesn't mean eloping on the spot, but some strong emotions CAN happen when we least expect it. Just try not to have any pre-set ideas about love so that, when it does arrive, you'll have the open eyes to recognize it and the open heart to let it in.

I'm probably talking out of turn here, but, there is such a thing as "being honest as an excuse to be rude" (not implying that that is what you're doing) but it does bear considering. I can give you an example of honesty not being the best policy: When I go to a bar to meet my friends and am standing there seemingly alone, it is not uncommon for some guy to sidle up next to me and say something like, "Can I be honest with you? I just can't stop thinking about what you'd look like naked." Well, he's just telling "the truth", right? In this scenario, the guy is using "honesty" as an excuse to be a masher and this is not attractive in any way to me. In your case, maybe "honesty" has the effect of feeling like an uncomfortable socially awkward moment for the young lady. It's not a "game" to take care of the receiver's feelings when you say things. Withholding your thoughts, if they are potentially off-putting, isn't a sign of dishonesty, it's a hard-won social skill that serves to protect both people from having to deal with the icky place the conversation is suddenly thrust into. Ask yourself, before you blurt something just because it's on your mind, could this thought help move the energy forward for both of us and/or could this create a weird moment? MUTUAL BENEFICIALITY is key to all interpersonal communication.

^Yeah I have noticed the same thing^


I have fallen into this same trap a few times "Can I be honest with you?" and I say "yes" thinking they were going to say "yes or"no" to my yes or no question and instead they say something hurtful that didn't need to be said when all I wanted was a yes or no answer so I learned when people say "Can I be honest with you?" they are basically asking "Can I be mean to you?" but they change the word to "honest" so they have an excuse to be hurtful. But when one of my aspie friends asked me if he can be honest with me, I said "sure" and he said he didn't think my relationship was going to work out with my ex. So people can literally mean if they can be honest with you when they ask.

Like Feyhera said, a guy can walk into the bar and say "can I be honest with you about what I think of you?" and she says "yes" and then he says "I can't stop thinking how you look naked." That question is a way of tricking people so that's a game to me they play.

I might reply them: "I am always honest. But I'm not sure if you can."

This reminds me of one morning that my husband said to our AS son that he should ALWAYS be honest (he has a terrible habit of lying even if he isn't in trouble, and he is horrible at it as well) no matter what. So he goes to school that day and he has a substitute music teacher. Instead of doing a lesson she has brought a music video to play for the children. So my son, with his new found incentive to be "honest" tells the substitute, "That music is so horrible it makes me hate ALL music."

At which point he had to go out into the hall, and he got a zero on his point sheet for that class. So then later we had to sit down and discuss the difference between being honest, and being mean. Which is funny because some times my husband (who does not have AS) has a difficult time with it as well. So I have started trying to ingrain in my son the basic Buddhist tenets of, "Is it true, is it helpful, is it kind?", and if it does not fit then he should look for a way to say it that does.