Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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Using children inappropriately, trying to damage reputations, etc, is outside what I would be comfortable with as well. None of those things address the real issue of what the person did wrong and only serve to hurt innocent others.

In my situation I have no desire for revenge. I don't hate him. In fact, I very much still love him and wish him the best, even if his path for the future doesn't include me. I don't begrudge him a thing and in fact hope he meets the woman of his dreams someday, even if circumstances prevent that from being me. BUT, I would very much like some closure, an explanation of what happened to change his mind, and a recognition of and an apology for the severe and prolonged pain he's caused. This cutting off contact crap is pure cowardice and not wanting to deal with the fallout of one's own decisions, including the decision to pursue a relationship with me in the first place, which I was reluctant about.

~Kate

Wow. I am actually surprised at the number of responses this thread has received. I am also pleased that it has created some good solid debate. I felt at first that people were jumping on my case, reacting harshly, in some ways not ever seeing that I was hurting. I think some people read only part of my post without reading all the details, therefore I got judged without all the evidence being presented (and I admit that the original post was rather long).

There is something that has also happened, that I would not have expected. I realize that I have grown very well to take criticism. In the past, I might have lashed out and attacked people personally. Or I might have run away and stopped even looking at the thread.

I have reread the final messages I wrote her before she blocked me. I thought about posting them and letting everyone judge for themselves if what I wrote was threatening, critical, or unreasonable. I have decided not to because much of the content is personal to both her and myself. Believe it or not, I am thinking of her. I will say that I did give her every opportunity say what she needed to say, including if she wanted no more contact with me. I also realize that I may have not been that patient, and made her feel pressured.

Being none of us can read her mind, it's hard to know if she considers anything I've done as stalking or if she feels threatened in any way (other than her pride being threatened). I think she might find me to be annoying rather than stalking.

In some ways, I have always looked at this from a philosophical point of view. In other words, what do people in relationships owe each other. I'm asking this from an ethical point of view rather than a legal point of view. Push come to shove, relationships do need responsibility. Responsible people fight fair. Responsible people negotiate rather than walk away.

Responsibility and accountability go hand in hand. I will never learn to be responsible unless I or someone else holds me accountable.

I guess I'm starting to ramble here.

First, I'm sorry Mew101 for your situation and for being hurt - I think we've all be there unfortunately.

I think I've been in both situations and what I've learned is that there are always two sides of the story and it's amazing how each of those involved feels entitled to act the way they do.

One of my best friends suddenly cut contact with me and stop answering my mails. I only sent two of them before getting the message. My husband told me that for my friend the reasons for doing so were probably so obvious, they didn't think an explanation was necessary, which of course didn't change the way I felt. It took me a very long time to get over it and I felt - in a similar way as the OP - that after so many years and so many things we shared, they "owed" me an honest discussion about what happened.

On a different occasion, I ended a romantic relationship explaining the reasons the best I could, but the other side wasn't satisfied with it and demanded a second chance. I tried to tell him as nice as I could that it isn't possible. He became very insistent and started stalking me. Since I've already talked to him several times to no avail, I had no other option but to cut all contact. I never filed a police report because I felt sorry for him, but in the end I had to change my locks and live with friends for a while. He crossed the line so many times, that in the end I did lost any sympathy and respect I used to have for him.

What I think is that we should learn to accept and respect other people's decisions, no matter how unfair they might seem of be, for our own sake. When the other side doesn't take responsibility, closure will be very hard to achieve, but we do live in a very lonely world, where nobody owes us anything.

I'm not demanding, or even requesting, a second chance. If someone doesn't want to be my friend or romantic partner, I can't make them, and if I tried and they were just making an effort it wouldn't be real anyway and I wouldn't want that. So stalking, pressuring, etc isn't really something that would cross my mind.

I don't want a second chance or for him to take me back, unless he sincerely changes his mind because whatever changed his mind in the first place is no longer an issue. I want to know what happened. I want to be able to learn from this experience and put it behind me. I don't think these are unreasonable things to ask from a mature, adult relationship. It's not like I did something unforgiveable...I was told that I didn't do anything wrong AT ALL. So, I think I *am* indeed entitled to a rational explanation for why I have bee hurt.

~Kate

I'm sorry if it looked like I was implying you would do those things - it's pretty obvious you wouldn't. That part was more related to the general subject discussed here and the OP's approach to rejection.



The bolded part reflects very well the way I felt in the first situation I described - the one with my friend. Unfortunately, I had to come to terms with it by myself and I'll never know exactly what happened.

Wow, I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope I never gave the impression that I would go to these extremes, but maybe I did. I already wonder if she has lost all respect for me. I never meant to hurt her that way.

Many of the last few responses have made me question what I really want and expect. I don't know if I can answer that right now, but it has given me a lot to ponder and meditate.

Responsibility comes in many forms. It can be as simple as admitting a mistake, apologizing, making amends, paying restitution, repentance, making a new deal, and even deciding to follow through with the original plans. What exactly a person might be responsible for is debatable and negotiable.

And knowing what I know about her, I can understand why she would be afraid of being taken advantage of if she was to enter a debate or negotiation. Thinking about this gives me a new perspective of what she might be going through.

I know that you can't force someone to be with you and even much less to love you but you guys here come of as quite offensive in your responses.

I am pretty much in the same situation as the TheWeirdPig (or worse). I find myself very attracted to white and Latino girls like Victoria Justice (you know the celebrity?) but these kind of girls do not find me attractive of course as I am very poor and not so good-looking (I am pretty fat and hairy) and I'm not in such a good health condition and in fact my health is deterioting.

Anthropologists today admit that race is a social construction because no one looks alike and there are attractive people and ugly people of every "race" just as there are very rich and successful "black" men and very poor "black" men who are starving and dying.

I have seen many attractive brown-skinned and black-skinned men who are attractive and successful with pretty young girls like Victoria Justice but sadly I am not one of these good-looking and successful people.

This is the classic break up line:

"It's not you, it's me." with the subtext of "Yeah, actually, it's you; I'm f****d up too, but yeah, it's you.

The NT convention is to tell white lies, they don't tell the truth if they think it will make them look bad or if it will hurt other people.

And also, it's a passive aggressive little trick about "shall we stay friends", because it makes them look like the kind hearted person, and if you decline, you're the one who's being mean and horrible and you're the one who's problematic because you're rejecting their offer of friendship (even though they're the one who's just dumped you). It's manipulative and mean and passive aggressive.

Again, her words don't match her actions. Her actions - ending the relationship and moving away, don't tally with what she's saying, giving you all these positive and encouraging messages. But then saying you're not "the one". Dude, it sounds like she wants to play around to try to find "the one", but in the meantime, she's going to keep you sweet, say flattering things to you, it's like she doesn't want you to play first innings, she wants to sit you out on the reserve/subs bench.

The message that she's giving you is that she hasn't given you a free transfer to another team. She's toying with you. You're like that player who isn't quite on top of his game and the manager says Sit this one out, maybe next time, sit this one out, maybe next time.

It was cruel and heartless of her to string you along like that. However, she didn't necessarily realise it. I lot of male-female communication in the NT is a masterclass in how to obfuscate say one thing and mean another, even outright lie. Lots of break-ups happen not because there's any actual break-up but because one of the parties just stops communicating and then hopes that the other person "gets the message". And it's very passive aggressive behaviour.

Again, classic passive aggressive behaviour. She does the nice thing by replying - and letting you know she's move (so it's not like she moved and didn't tell you because she wanted to avoid you, that might have sent a clear message), but she's sending you mixed messages:

What she says: She likes you and wants to be with you - but she can't because she's the one who's too guilty and messed up.

What you understand: She's giving you hope that if/when she sorts out her issues, you might be able to be together.

What she's really saying: I'm breaking up with you, but if I say 'It's not you, it's me' that's kinder, hopefully you won't feel so bad that I don't want you.

Your dating relationship wasn't good. Your dating relationship was a figment of your imagination in that you have idealised what happened, that you had a wonderful time with a woman who was really into you. That wasn't the reality. You had an internet relationship with someone who doesn't deserve to be on the pedestal you put her on. The woman you loved was kind and loving and caring. This woman isn't. This woman is manipulative and passive aggressive and she lies to you.

What you mistake as evidence of underlying affection and ongoing feelings, that's her just being polite because she doesn't want to be the bad guy telling you to f**k up because she's not interested. She's not interested. But she's too much of a coward to tell you that straight. So she'll happily leave you on the subs/reserve bench hoping that at some point you'll get the message. But the Catch 22 is that you're never going to get the message while she's politely emailing you and updating you and telling you she's moved (which she probably hopes will make you understand that she's moved on, literally and metaphorically), because you think that contact between you is further evidence of an ongoing connection. It's not. She's telling you she's moved on. But she's hinted at it in a way that NTs might understand, but you're taking things too literally. You're not reading between the lines.

Surely, now, will all the Facebook blocking, you *must* be getting the message now?

I can understand your point of view, in a way, because things wouldn't have gotten so far, wouldn't have gotten to this Facebook stalker stage if she'd had the courtesy to be completely honest in the beginning.

Honestly, and NTs think *we're* ret*d? They're the ones who can't f***ing communicate in a straightforward and open and honest manner.

Dude, all those things she's said and done where you think that means she's still into you? She's not. She's just not that into you. She said them because in the NT world, they're cowards. They think that telling the truth is going to mean conflict and arguments, so they lie, they mislead, they act in a passive aggressive manner, because they don't want to feel like they're the bad guys, they'll manufacture a situation (keeping in contact with someone they're no longer interested in romantically, because they don't want to be the bad person who rejects someone and hurts them) whereby someone else will react badly (and start to feel all hurt and angry and upset about being led on).

Just let it go. She's not into you. She's been leading you on for months, which was cruel, but not necessarily intentionally cruel, she was just hoping that you'd forget about her and move on and find someone else.

It's ironic, that she's wanting to settle down and she's "sick of games and bs" - y'see, it proves that she doesn't even have the slightest clue about what she's doing, she can't accept responsibility for her own part in all the games she plays.

She's dishonest with the men in her life and she can't even be honest with herself about the games she plays.

Don't consider that you lost the love of your life or whatever, consider that you had a lucky escape, because someone like her who will park you on the subs/reserve bench for months on end isn't a particularly nice person. There is someone out there for you who will be kind and considerate and loving and compassionate, someone who will want to spend time with you.

wow you really have no idea how NT's actually function

I think this says a lot and much of what I've been saying. She is more responsible for what happened than people seem to be saying.

And when I say, "Hey, take some responsibility," she blocks me and makes me look like the bad guy.

Still with all the banter that has been exchanged on this tread, little has been said about the reason she broke it off. While it looks like a classic"'it's me, not you,' when it really is you," I don't believe it's that. Look, I now know that agreeing to remain friends was completely bs, nt or not or as or not, it's not very mature. Much of he action has not been mature.

Much of what I'm saying is society should be ashamed of itself for allowing so much of this to go on. We are not holding people like this accountable.

Once again, I've probably opened a new can of worms. But I'm no longer afraid of worms.

she doesn't like you, people shouldn't have to give detailed reasons why they don't want to be with someone or block them
often they want nothing at all to do with people they block and avoid
and avoid them for a reason
its easy to demand but impossible to understand anyone's point of view but your own

I think society should be commended for allowing people to walk away from a non-legally binding relationship that is not working for them. Laws against stalking and harrassment are rather recent and much needed. I commend society for passing them. I think it would be absolutely horrible to live in a society where people were legally unable to make a clean break from somebody they wanted no part of.

She doesn't want to be with you. She owes you NOTHING. She has NO responsibility to make sure everything is explained in a way that is satisfactory to you. And society backs her up on this with a set of laws against harrassment and stalking. And I think that's a good thing.

At least Kilroy gets it. Yeesh!

well I do try, but...most people don't like to listen

Yes, you're obsessed.

She dosn't want anything to do with you.
Leave her alone.
Even if you've never said anything bad to her, she chose to ignore you, for a reason.
She does not want to get contacted by you, ever.
If she wanted to i'm sure she would find a way to contact you.

So leave her alone, and spend your time on other things.

In another forum someone told me that I'm confusing what my mommy feels for me for what I can realistically expect from strangers (aka other women in the world).

But don't be sad, even Justin Biebers get rejected from time to time.

Last edited by LikeGreenAndBlue on 27 Dec 2010, 1:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

it makes absolutely no difference why she broke it off. maybe she disliked your hairstyle. maybe your feet were too big. maybe she didn't like the way you pronounce your Rs. maybe she didn't like the way you kissed her. maybe she just didn't feel any magic. maybe she doesn't even know why, herself. but it is irrelevant, because the end result is that she did not want a relationship with you, and you cannot change that with reasons or reasoning or arguments.


thank goodness we are not. to hold a dumper accountable would assume that a person always has a reason that could be accepted by the other party, or that the other party would understand the reasons if they were just explained one more time, in a different way or more thoroughly. but there will never, ever be a "reason" that would satisfy the party who has been dumped.... because the dumped person believes that they have been wronged, and no reason can explain that away satisfactorily.

i am starting to think that you (and others who posted agreement with you) maybe don't want reasons at all - you (and they) seem to actually want the dumper to be called to task for breaking it off. that is never going to happen... for which the majority of humanity is thankful. "no-fault" divorce was invented for a reason.