Role Reversed World?

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"Natural", except in Nordic countries? Gender roles are due to socioeconomic patterns, not nature. There are a number of matriarchal cultures in existence and the concept of beauty is different in every culture and historical era. Male athleticism isn't any more valued than female athleticism in where I'm from. Robust, muscular women have been considered beautiful when it was a trait to aid survival. Most modern women I know don't go for overly muscular men, either. Again, we are talking about sociology rather than biological "facts".

In all honesty, I have no idea, in my culture this is not the norm. When I got married, my husband made less than me but each of us was more than able to support themselves and both of us if needed. On the other hand, I would not be willing to marry someone uneducated and chronically unemployed unless their situation was due to a disability or other legit reason. I don't find it unreasonable to desire an intellectual equal.

I'm glad to hear that (according to you) African American women are striving to better themselves, maybe the men should do the same thing.

I think you're putting a little bit too much blame on a woman here. I wouldn't have a problem marrying a less succesful person, but especially foreign males seem embarrassed, if a woman makes more money than he does, and also e.g. seem less reluctant to take her family name.

Yes, this is another factor. Especially in some cultures a lot of men seem to find independent and self-sufficient women intimidating.

I said gender roles are PARTLY natural. I accept that they're also partly cultural. No offence, but I don't believe you when you say that female athleticism is valued as high as male athleticism in Finland. I happen to know a lot about football, for example, and I know that men's football is MUCH more popular than women's football in Finland. Also I'm pretty sure young Finnish men aren't longing for tall, muscular, women.

Also, it's likely that gender roles in Finland (and other Western countries) are changing precisely because of natural differences. In primitive societies the roles of males was much more limited than females. Men hunted and protected, whilst women carried out a variety of tasks. In a post-industrialized world, where male strength is less valuable, women's ability to adapt to a wider range of tasks gives them the edge (in some professions anyway).

Also, EVERY single country in the world - including Finland - has concluded, via testing, that the average male is better at maths, whilst the average female is better at reading/writing. This can't be explained by cultural differences.

And lastly, of course, why are there far more males than females with Autism? This can't be explained by culture. There MUST be some generalized differences between male and female brains.

I won't bother with the rest as it wasn't directed to me but you obviously have never been in Scandinavia. Tall, athletic women are much preferred by most men in that part of the world as it would be very easy for you to find out if you wouldn't already be "pretty sure" - I wonder based on what? From what you write I imagine you're American and your lack of knowledge about Northern Europe is obvious.

Is it common for men to take a woman's name in Finland?

Another thing that you might not know and might contribute to the confusion is that in Scandinavia (and a few other European countries) men are not expected to pay for dates and "treats", but always split the check. The whole society is built around families having 2 incomes and women are expected to be able to pay their own way. Maybe the... miscommunication we're having is due to cultural differences.

I said tall and muscular, not athletic. I should have said taller, not just tall. I would be very, very, surprised if Finnish men in general are attracted to women who are taller and stronger than them.

I'm from the UK. I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have a very good friend in Sweden and his taste in women is very 'American', i.e. stereotypically feminine women.

Football generally speaking isn't popular in Finland... In North women hunted and farmed in the same way men did. I know men, especially abroad who go for women with amazonian physique, but it's not a popular trend any more than too bulky men. Personally, I go for slender/athletic build, I believe a lot of men do as well with women. Tall blondes do have their fans in the globe, by the way.

We are not talking about biological differences between the genders (obviously there are certain, you can confirm this by taking a peak in your pants). The differences in brain you mention are, in all these researches, very minor, and there is no difference in the average IQ. There isn't any non-physical task where men would excel better than their female counterparts.

The trend of change in the roles in the modern world is not due to "natural" differences. The trend is to approach greater equality between sexes and that happens in an environment where physical strenght is much less essential for survival and other traits much more so.

I see, I'm sorry I haven't seen your location. Out of curiosity - in your perception - is it expected in the UK than men pay for everything or most and do women expect to be financially supported? I only visited UK, I couldn't grasp such details. No offence but I would be shocked to hear people still live in the '50s over there

If you are interested, genetically, Swedish women are very robust and broad-shouldered in build. Finnish women are blonde and much more feminine by their physique.

As I said on another post some gender roles are cultural, and precise gender roles vary between countries. Personally, I would prefer to live in a country with more fluid gender roles, i.e. like a Scandinavian country. However, there are some general differences between the sexes - physical and biological - that can't be eliminated, regardless of culture.

Yes, it is very common. However, it is also common to take the man's name or create a combination name.

Nobody's saying anything about eliminating the differences between sexes - if I understand correctly what Lilya said was that gender roles(not differences) are highly relative and that social construct will play a big part in the way they are defined.

Maybe you could explain what you see as gender roles so we can see if we can find a common ground. For instance, the way I understand what you said until now I wouldn't even have a reason to want a man. I'm highly educated and can comfortably provide for myself, I'm repulsed by the idea of leeching off someone and I don't want children. Would that mean - in your view - that having a partner would be futile?

Edit: LOL, I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious. Your views are quite unusual for me.

I don't agree with this, to be honest. The general differences in male/female brains is much more significant than you suggest.

Although the average male IQ is the same as the average female IQ male IQ levels vary much more from the average, i.e. there are many more male geniuses than female geniuses, but there also many more males with very low IQs than females with very low IQs. This is a statistical fact, not just an opinion.

Men ARE better on average at maths, and women ARE better on average at communicating (on paper and orally). This explains why women are 'taking over' the media, but men are still dominant in professions with a high maths content, e.g. computer programming and engineering.

So, yes, there are non-physical tasks where men are better than women - on average - and there are tasks where women are better than men - on average.

http://www.megafoundation.org/Genius/Ge ... nition.htm