Rant. Ugh.

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oops, delayed double post (computer problem)

there was an edit in this version that I've added to the one I didn't know posted ...

I will also challenge the assumption that this girl knew she wanted to laugh at something the person couldn't help. Not even every parent realizes that meltdowns cannot be control, what makes you think this girl could?

I continue to suggest many here are far too confident in their ability to read between the lines as to what her actions meant about her character. You all really are that good at accurately judging what other people's actions and words mean? I don't buy it. I don't know anyone in real life who is; there is a reason I was taught to always follow up with inquiry or additional conversation.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 24 Jun 2011, 9:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

I made a decision a long time ago that I preferred to err on the side of gullible. Life is happier that way. I'm not stupid, I'm not lacking caution, but I refuse to judge people negatively without repeated and sufficient cause. If you believe the people around you are horrible, ill-intentioned, and out to get you, then they will be. If you believe they are just struggling to make their way like anyone else, and give them the benefit of the doubt, then they are more likely to do the same to you. To a good degree we create the world we live in by how we act, and we determine how much love will exist in that world by how much we send out. Drawing lines that others are not allowed to crossed is rarely a good idea.

^ I don't see anything positive in doing that.

I have ignored my gut a lot of times in life, a lot. And my gut has never been wrong. Choosing ignorance over following your gut is a foolish choice, as I know all too well. It's very easy to do.

I admire the thread author for following his gut.

Good for the OP to dump the woman. I should have dumped my last ex in the first place too or stay away from him when he was already showing signs of ignorance. But no I was the one naive thinking he can easily change his mind once I educate him because that is what happens with me when I learn more about something, I easily change my mind. But now I have to remember not everyone learns when you try and correct them because they still keep thinking what they think. Now those people I avoid and if I see one bad ignorance in someone, I run.

it doesn't actually make any difference whether she thought the meltdown was intentional - she still laughed AT him, but behind his back. if she thought he was trying to be funny, she would have laughed where the boy could see.

she also either further distanced Jonsi from the category of autistic after that experience, even though she had accepted it at face value before, or she finally showed her true opinion about it. essentially invalidating his own feelings about what he saw.

these things are so logical i am having trouble understanding why they need to be explained. you misunderestimate people's abilities to read behaviour, especially those with asperger's syndrome. having been the victims of bullying ourselves, some of us can smell a bully from very far off and know the signs quite intimately. call it a superpower if you like.

also, while i am thinking of it, drawing a line in the sand that people cannot cross is also referred to a 'setting a boundary' and it has taken many years of getting trampled before i am finally learning to do this effectively. like hale_bopp, i am getting better at listening to my gut, and only recently becoming confident enough to trust myself. Jonsi had a good instinct, which we encouraging him to trust.

So people on the spectrum should never try to understand the people around them? They should just listen to the NT's and follow along like good little lambs? I'm sorry but I don't buy that either.

I may not always get inflection or metaphor, I can't always tell angry from sad, but that doesn't mean I can't make my own decisions about people. I may not see what you see in a situation, but that means you aren't seeing what I'm seeing either. If that makes sense.

And whether or not it comes naturally, spotting cruelty, bullying and a disregard for other people... those things I've learned the hard way. And the most effective way to create a victim is to tell them to disregard their own judgment.

I apologize for that sentence. I was frustrated, and I wrote something that really isn't true. To be complete, I don't know anyone, NT or AS, that is that accurate in reading character or underlying motive from one day or short series of events. Numerous influences taught me to go back and ask additional questions to figure out what is going on, and not judge. I am glad that I was taught to do that; I've found it very productive. My husband was not taught to do that, and has a family that spends years at a time not talking to each other, very hastily ascribing to each other the worst motives and not even willing to entertain any nuance; since they aren't all AS, I can't call that an AS thing; its just how some people are, and it makes everyone around them as miserable as they are, and usually for no good reason (when sitting on the outside WE get to hear both sides, and the level of misunderstanding and miss-attribution is always ridiculous). My son's instinct is also against trying to find out more; it's not an easy thing to do, but I hope he'll learn not to give up on people over a single blunder. As a child, yes, his reading is usually wrong; probably more to age than neurology.

I got frustrated in this thread and blundered in anger; does that mean I get written off as a terrible person? I don't want it done to me, and I will never do it to someone else. We're all just trying to get by in life best we can. No one is perfect.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 24 Jun 2011, 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

There is a difference between drawing a line that says, "anyone who does A must be B," and setting a boundary that says "I will not allow people to do C to me." The later makes a statement about your needs more than the core of who the other person is; the former is an attempt to judge someone else. It's the judging I cannot stomach, that riles me.

Jonsi's instinct does not seem to have been to run away; he was angry, he wanted time to process, but with very few replies in this thread he had already decided to meet with her to talk more. He wasn't ready to write her off forever. I don't think that was due to any of us, but due to his understanding of her, things we don't know; his gut instinct from actually having been there and seen all the details, surely not all of which were posted.

ok, so here there is a problem. it's happened a couple of times upthread, by a couple of posters including yourself. there is a massive assumption in your statement here. here's the thing:

just because we think that THIS woman sounds like a bully and is not worth Jonsi's time does NOT mean that we think people should write off every single person any time they do something wrong.

for myself, i could not have ever had any relationships (romantic, friendship, work-related, or otherwise) if i always turned my back on every person. we aren't advocating that people should never talk, never work things out, never accept an apology. this is a highly specific situation that hits very close to home, not every-single-situation-we-find-ourselves-in.

I have stopped communicating with friends for their cruelty towards disabled people. They made fun of autistic people to my face and I would tell them and they're like, "Stop faking. You don't have autism, otherwise you'd be like that freak." I had a boyfriend who after I explained AS to him his response was, "So you're ret*d?" We broke up a few weeks later. I wish I had done it on the spot. I don't regret cutting off these horrible people. I just hope that I'm around when karma bites them in the ass.

Of course not. I just thought the implications of that sentence were rather profound.

I'm actually guilty of this writing off thing a bit too, I know. The thing is that when I do it I know for a fact that I'm not writing off some of my family for being bad people. When I do it personally it's because I know that, while the person has good intentions, they tend to be underhanded and manipulative about it. It's easy for me to be manipulated and therefore safer for me to not associate with them. I will write people off for such incompatibility issues without hesitation, and this is sometimes sad I admit.

I can therefore understand why an observer might be concerned about a tendency to shut people out for what are generally thought to be rather extreme reasons. On the other hand, I don't personally think that is what's happening in this thread - thus resulting in the line of reasoning I've been pursuing.

Here I think there is an overall safety concern and it is therefore important to advise, at the very least, extreme caution.

And I continue to believe there wasn't enough information in that post to get that far about who she is, and that such a conclusion discounts the most likely meaning of her calling him over and over (presumably wanting to talk and work it out).

How many bullys ever actually apologize? To anyone over anything, unless they see that person as far more powerful than themselves? While emotional abusers might do that, emotional abuse isn't the charge being leveled; it's bullying, and just from her apparent need to apologize or talk it out there was already some pretty strong contrary evidence about her character as a potential bully.

To me, knowing what she had to say the second round, the reason she was calling, would be crucial information to deciding likely character. And I acknowledged from the first that the attraction may never come back, and that wasn't what follow up had to be about.

I think you missed an opportunity to try to educate them. If you did try, and they were still that way, your reaction is absolutely right. If you didn't try, then it can be argued that you share responsibility for their continuing ignorance.

I'm not trying to force anyone to be around people that aren't healthy for them, but I do ask that you be careful about what you conclude the need to keep distance means about who they are.

I did tell them. They didn't care because they were teenage brats. This is why I didn't have friends in high school. They were stupid, lazy and spoiled brats who didn't care about those who are different than they are. And they wonder why I was borderline suicidal in high school. Even the school psychologist told me that I couldn't be a writer because of AS. She said I should become a singing messenger or a sign painter. You know, fields that don't really exist but apparently AS makes me too stupid to complete college. Joke's on her, I have a degree in writing. I'm not working right now but I'm trying to find something. She studied psychology and still was making horrible remarks about those with AS. So being educated doesn't always lead to understanding. God I hate that b***h. :/