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How on Earth do you approach & talk to women?

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MXH
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07 May 2012, 2:50 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Delphiki wrote:

Social Constructs, DUHH


I have a personal hypothesis that Asperger's either results in rigid clinging to supposed truisms,
or classically-INTJ "systems-builders" rejection of dogmatism as prima-facie irrational and therefore inefficient,
with not many in between.

This is the forum I come to when I need more confirmation.


thats stereotyping :lol:



Delphiki
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07 May 2012, 2:50 pm

You have dealt with all the male stereotypes? Gotta watch statements like that :wink:


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ValentineWiggin
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07 May 2012, 2:51 pm

MXH wrote:
You talk to stereotypes to the guy that has been kicked out of places for "looking suspicious" aka being young and brown. Ive had cops follow me home and then pretend they werent when i stopped and confronted them. People have assumed I must be X and Y because im hispanic, or asked me if I spoke mexican. Plus ive dealt with all the male gender stereotypes too. I think i know a thing or two about stereotypes. If anything i guess no way that i word things will you even get close to what im saying, let lone understand it.


Wow, so you'd think based on being treated like sh!t by society on the basis of your skin color,
you'd be the first person to oppose similar, class-based stereotyping.

BUT, since, according to you,

MXH wrote:
i do believe stereotypes exist for a reason.



you don't really have a right to try to invoke pity with such anecdotes, because the people who treated you in such a way were being entirely-reasonable.


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 07 May 2012, 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ValentineWiggin
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07 May 2012, 2:54 pm

MXH wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Delphiki wrote:

Social Constructs, DUHH


I have a personal hypothesis that Asperger's either results in rigid clinging to supposed truisms,
or classically-INTJ "systems-builders" rejection of dogmatism as prima-facie irrational and therefore inefficient,
with not many in between.

This is the forum I come to when I need more confirmation.


thats stereotyping :lol:


Ah, but notice how I qualified it as a "personal hypothesis",
as opposed to making bald declarations of it's universal veracity, to the point of offering other people advice based on it. :lol:


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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Kurgan
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07 May 2012, 2:56 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
And all I've said is that the same rules apply to approaching and talking to people, regardless of sex,
and that sex stereotypes are stoooopid.


Hormones do to a certain degree affect your interests.


Not in a neatly-defined algorithmic way which would be remotely reliable when approaching people.
I have sky-high testosterone, yet couldn't care less about sports, muscle-building or (fill in the blank with XYZ "masculine" interest).
Of course, some random person who doesn't know me has no clue as to my testosterone OR interests, except where maybe hints of them might be displayed aesthetically....which is the case for both sexes.


Like I said: To a certain degree. Even women with PCOS have only a fraction of the testosterone men have.


What neatly-defined system is there for assigning someone interests on the basis of sex?
One which is more reliable than relying on contextual clues given off by the individual in question?


No system, just hormones.

http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/sex-horm ... er-choices
http://myhormonesmademedoit.com/the-male-hormone-cycle
http://myhormonesmademedoit.com/the-fem ... one-cycle/
http://brainlang.georgetown.edu/PUBS/Es ... ang_02.pdf



MXH
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07 May 2012, 2:58 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
MXH wrote:
You talk to stereotypes to the guy that has been kicked out of places for "looking suspicious" aka being young and brown. Ive had cops follow me home and then pretend they werent when i stopped and confronted them. People have assumed I must be X and Y because im hispanic, or asked me if I spoke mexican. Plus ive dealt with all the male gender stereotypes too. I think i know a thing or two about stereotypes. If anything i guess no way that i word things will you even get close to what im saying, let lone understand it.


Wow, so you'd think based on being treated like sh!t by society on the basis of your skin color,
you'd be the first person to oppose similar, class-based stereotyping.


Or maybe youd think id come to understand why people reach such primitive conclusions. Stereotypes are a natural way of making sense of the world. Its only when they affect how you act to others that it becomes an issue.

Ill ask you this, since i heard it yesterday in wp. Someone said that women dont care as much about looks but they do care about mostly is personality. (dont have the exact words but thats the gist of it). Isnt that considered a stereotype? It is a positive one though, no? Makes women seem less shallow. But based on individualism you can say that theres just as much a chance for men to be that way and for women to be focused on looks alone. Still I always hear it told in every thread posted by a guy asking for help around here.



ValentineWiggin
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07 May 2012, 2:59 pm

Kurgan wrote:

No system, just hormones.

http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/sex-horm ... er-choices
http://myhormonesmademedoit.com/the-male-hormone-cycle
http://myhormonesmademedoit.com/the-fem ... one-cycle/
http://brainlang.georgetown.edu/PUBS/Es ... ang_02.pdf


Right, so...no relation to thread whatsoever?
IE, advice for approaching women?
I mean, unless you obtain some lab tests from them first?


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They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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MXH
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07 May 2012, 3:00 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
MXH wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Delphiki wrote:

Social Constructs, DUHH


I have a personal hypothesis that Asperger's either results in rigid clinging to supposed truisms,
or classically-INTJ "systems-builders" rejection of dogmatism as prima-facie irrational and therefore inefficient,
with not many in between.

This is the forum I come to when I need more confirmation.


thats stereotyping :lol:


Ah, but notice how I qualified it as a "personal hypothesis",
as opposed to making bald declarations of it's universal veracity, to the point of offering other people advice based on it. :lol:


How is that any different from me saying "gosh, most girls i talk to seem to care about their shoes. Maybe if i hang around shoe stores ill get more confirmation". It would be a personal hypothesis and would have visual evidence. Yet all of my "personal hypothesis" that I have mentioned you have called out as being BS or not having some sort of bias. If you're coming here for comfirmation of something you are biased to it.



mv
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07 May 2012, 3:02 pm

ValentineWiggin, I'm pretty much your biggest fan on here, and I always enjoy reading your posts.

I would describe myself as a classic INTJ-*extreme* systemizer, and I shake my head (disagreeingly) at all the anecdotal evidence being thrown around as absolute "truth". Does that agree with your assessment? I think I'm having trouble with reading comprehension today. I'm older, though, and have the benefit of a lot of years of observation and experience.



ValentineWiggin
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07 May 2012, 3:05 pm

MXH wrote:
Or maybe youd think id come to understand why people reach such primitive conclusions. Stereotypes are a natural way of making sense of the world. Its only when they affect how you act to others that it becomes an issue.


Such as, for instance, developing entirely different means of speaking to men versus women on the basis of them?

MXH wrote:
Ill ask you this, since i heard it yesterday in wp. Someone said that women dont care as much about looks but they do care about mostly is personality. (dont have the exact words but thats the gist of it). Isnt that considered a stereotype?

Any declaration beginning "X class is or does or thinks or likes Y" wherein Y isn't definitional for X is a stereotype, yes.
MXH wrote:
It is a positive one though, no?

Uhh...only if caring about looks is objectively negative, and caring about personality objectively positive. I don't know what you'd appeal to empirically to show that's the case.
MXH wrote:
Makes women seem less shallow. But based on individualism you can say that theres just as much a chance for men to be that way and for women to be focused on looks alone.

IF that statement about women vs. men, which was comparative in nature, is true (again, a hypothetical), then NO, there is NOT just as much chance for men to be that way, regardless of individual variation, because that's definitional ("women don't care AS much...": that's a comparison).
MXH wrote:
Still I always hear it told in every thread posted by a guy asking for help around here.

Probably because people get tired of flat declarations about groups numbering in the billions.


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


MXH
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07 May 2012, 3:06 pm

hmm, it just hit me. I dont have to defend my opinions. And especially less now that ive given up. Ohh well, tallyho!



ValentineWiggin
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07 May 2012, 3:10 pm

MXH wrote:

How is that any different from me saying "gosh, most girls i talk to seem to care about their shoes. Maybe if i hang around shoe stores ill get more confirmation". It would be a personal hypothesis and would have visual evidence. Yet all of my "personal hypothesis" that I have mentioned you have called out as being BS or not having some sort of bias. If you're coming here for comfirmation of something you are biased to it.


Probably because, dear MXH, I said that as a JOKE about the blatantly-fallacious thinking that's rampant here,
whereas you're being SERIOUS.

You don't form an opinion and then SEEK OUT the phenomenon it describes and declare it confirmation. 8O
(Such as, for instance, declaring that [what you notice of] social media somehow confirms[ what you notice of] sex-based stereotypes.)

Unlike you, my "personal hypothesis" doesn't involve doling out advice to people involving treating people as distinct, stereotyped classes.


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


1000Knives
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07 May 2012, 3:28 pm

OK, more relevant question. What do girls like talking about? I can make plenty of male friends talking about cars, working out, etc, but what do women do or like? Seriously, what? Like guys, you can make a new acquaintance talking about oil at Walmart or something, but I can find no equivalent with women.



MXH
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07 May 2012, 3:31 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
MXH wrote:

How is that any different from me saying "gosh, most girls i talk to seem to care about their shoes. Maybe if i hang around shoe stores ill get more confirmation". It would be a personal hypothesis and would have visual evidence. Yet all of my "personal hypothesis" that I have mentioned you have called out as being BS or not having some sort of bias. If you're coming here for comfirmation of something you are biased to it.


Probably because, dear MXH, I said that as a JOKE about the blatantly-fallacious thinking that's rampant here,
whereas you're being SERIOUS.

You don't form an opinion and then SEEK OUT the phenomenon it describes and declare it confirmation. 8O
(Such as, for instance, declaring that [what you notice of] social media somehow confirms[ what you notice of] sex-based stereotypes.)

Unlike you, my "personal hypothesis" doesn't involve doling out advice to people involving treating people as distinct, stereotyped classes.


So you're back to your passive aggresive sarcasm then?

Who said i have? I have seen things and then formed an opinion on them. Which is what ive said this whole thread. Which is what ive said in almost everone of my 8k+ posts here.

I forget the part where i gave advice here that was different from yours. Actually now that i rechecked i missed the part i gave advice to anyone. If anything i asked for advice then talked about my experience whith what you said



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07 May 2012, 3:34 pm

1000Knives wrote:
OK, more relevant question. What do girls like talking about? I can make plenty of male friends talking about cars, working out, etc, but what do women do or like? Seriously, what? Like guys, you can make a new acquaintance talking about oil at Walmart or something, but I can find no equivalent with women.


Depends on the individual woman. You'd have to ask her.


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MXH
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07 May 2012, 4:50 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
OK, more relevant question. What do girls like talking about? I can make plenty of male friends talking about cars, working out, etc, but what do women do or like? Seriously, what? Like guys, you can make a new acquaintance talking about oil at Walmart or something, but I can find no equivalent with women.


Depends on the individual woman. You'd have to ask her.


"hello, can I ask you something? What way would you like to be approached?"