The masculine role in society

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I tend to agree with Kjas. Society teaches men to be stoic robots, and women to be submissive and weak. Why not teach both to be awesome, full, and complete beings?

Yes, but I think this can be done while still keeping our two genders intact! Really, we can work so well together as a team, rather than against each other. The girls still have their scouting program, give the boys theirs back and allow men to be the best men they can be!

Once met a girl from Taiwan and she had this delusion that every man should be muscular and manly, and every woman should be their personal sandwich maker.
She was upset and angry once I told her about how cute and geeky I was.

Some people... some people should just dig a hole to the earth's center and jump in it.

A thought that crosses my mind........ just because someone gets rid of gender roles at a societal level.... does not mean we do away with the concept of masculinity on the personal individual level (which is what you seem concerned about BM). To many, that is a personal concept - not a social one. It does not seem to be entirely a social construct... especially since there are those of both genders who may identify with aspects of it or prefer it (I know quite a few men and women who are more comfortable with aspects of that, and if they choose to embrace it and define it in their own way, then good for them). If someone chooses to keep that concept in their personal life, even celebrate it if they wish, in a positive way - then why not?

If you really break out of the gender roles, then people really are free to choose - including choosing that.

Nobody said anything about working against each other. Teamwork can happen between two individuals too, or between groups. It just has the added benefit this way of everyone being able to decide for themselves rather than have society push something on them they don't want - and being ridiculed for it if they don't live up to it.

if it seems like you (or anyone else) are not understanding what i am trying to say, then i reword it until i think t is as clear as i can make it. if you were agreeing with me, then why didn't you actually... agree? you kept referring back to the main definition and telling me i wasn't getting your point... that is *not* agreement. perhaps the issue is not that i am not understanding your point, but rather your responses are combative and come in opposition to me. if you agree.... then agree with me!

Sexism is just like the racism issue: the best way to get over it is by stopping talking about it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s[/youtube]
Personally, I never really thought on terms of gender roles. While I do fit two of the Man Box items (never showing emotions and never showing weaknesses), it is due to my strong alexithymia. I treat everybody as equals, regardless of their gender, race, ammount of limbs and mental state. Just ask any of my friends.

P.S.: I only recently found that Morgan Freeman video, but I am very satisfied to find that he thinks exactly like me on that matter. I admire the guy even more now.

Last edited by Magnus_Rex on 20 Nov 2012, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My role feels like I need to be the provider and concrete support pillar 24/7/365.

I don't want to be the main source of income. But if you do have a job, make a sensible contribution, don't expect everything from me. Don't hit me and expect me not to hit you back (not that I do). Do women have any idea how much their tantrums causes build-ups and grinds up in men? Women know they are good when it comes to talking and insulting men, and the only power men have over women is physical (in most cases). Now I'm not allowed to use it. But nobody is correcting a woman when she is bad mouthing a man. Not every woman is like that, but I feel there seems to be this political correctness to overlook when a woman is behaving badly. On the other end, why is it that a woman can stand between 2 men fighting, and she can stop the fight? If we propose equality, then rightfully so, she would be punched too (I'm not supporting punching people in general) but what else is there?

Like others have mentioned, it would be great to choose based on their abilities. This is where I support in favour of difference between man and woman. It does give sense of direction and purpose.

The only thing I could think of, feeling wanted, was that if I was feeling the same towards that person. If I loved and wanted that person then I would feel wanted and useful if she also wanted and loved me.

Can't argue with that, but the current approach to eliminating roles seems to also eliminate the gender... It's not society that decides how boys and girls behave... we have a certain amount of hard-wiring built in from birth that no amount of "reprogramming" will ever truly eliminate.

Boys act differently, learn differently, behave differently, want different things - and that's perfectly normal! Sure, eliminate roles and expectations - let men be homemakers and florists if they want! But our approach to this (in North America at least) for the last few generations, has been to treat boys like girls and hope they don't act like the boys they are - then maybe they'll grow up to be non-threatening. They filled the boy scouts with girls and angry moms and all but removed male teachers from schools. This approach is just not working for equality... it punishes the whole gender for being what it is - different.

It's time for a combination of new and old... some things we knew 100 years ago really were for the best, like boys and girls separate classes, etc.

I'm rambling... I hope I made my point at least.

Magnus Rex I am interested in your alexithymia. I suspect someone I know has that condition too and have read substantial amounts of literature on the matter.

However, I have never spoken to anyone who admits having it. Do you just have a hard time showing emotion, or do not know how to externalise it?

Society really messed this one up... turn on your TV and you'll see women and girls bashing men and boys with canned laughter all along the way. The acid test is to reverse the roles... if men verbally bashed women on TV there'd be an uproar - therefore we know there's something very wrong here. This is unhealthy and unbalanced - more and more bad things will come of it with time.

I cannot show emotions and it is very difficulty for me to identify the emotions I feel (my normal state is one of aloofness; neither happy nor sad). But I was only conjecturing; I am not diagnosed.

For example, up until a few months ago, I was interested in a girl I know. For a few months, I tried to figure out if I was in love with her or if it was just a weird obsessive reaction to her friendship (since I do not have many friends). Eventually, I talked to her and realized that there was no chance of it working. I lost my interest in her, but I am still not completely sure of what happened to me during that time and why.

Another good example is the fact that, while I do feel something towards my parents, I am not sure if I love them. My father lives in another town and I never call him (he calls me sometimes, but I never miss him). As for my mother, I live with her because we both need each other due to financial reasons, but I really want to buy her a house and live on my own someday.

Magnus Rex, I don't think I love anyone either. I don't miss my Mum even though I haven't seen her in 5 years. I normally like the person I am with in a relationship, but I always think it's because of the sex, and the cuddles, so not sure if it is love. I do like doing other things with the person I am with, not everything and not all the time. But I know it's not a perennial feeling and that spells it's fickle and not strong.

But I do feel anger. A lot.

I rarely feel anger. When I do, it does not last long. When I feel something, it is either happiness because I am doing something I like or sadness because I am thinking about my problems related to things like social and dating skills (not that I care much about those things, but it is very depressing to lack those skills when every guy around my age has no problems with those things).

Anyway, it never lasts long. I always go back to my aloof emotionless-robot state. Which is actually good. I only wish I was not always chronically bored.

How about fear?

really?

im the opposite. its impossible to make me angry (unless your my twin brother). anger to me is just logically not necessary:

if someone is trying to make you mad, they are probably in violation of something, or you just leave. but this is typically rare anyway.

if someone did something that could make you mad, ask yourself if they attempted too, and when you realize they didnt, theres no need to be mad since it was an accident.

"Yes, yes... fear AND surprise."

"what about ruthless efficiency?"
"SHUT UP!!"