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How Not to be a Creep

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Anomiel
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16 Jan 2013, 11:28 am

meems wrote:
I'm not going to spend time worried about how the word creep might make someone feel when I'm telling my friends why I want to get away from someone, they understand that I'm saying a person has made me feel violated or unsafe when I use the word creep.

If I find a better word, I'll use it.


And this.



DialAForAwesome
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16 Jan 2013, 11:29 am

meems wrote:
Unwanted behavior. Toward another person or multiple people.


Coulda fooled me. I'm supposed to not go to the library to read? :lol: (I'm kinda joking about this, but I've done plenty of harmless things and been called a creep. My first thought isn't going to be "I need to stop this creepy behavior." My first thought is "why don't people leave me the @#$% alone?")


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MXH
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16 Jan 2013, 11:36 am

Anomiel wrote:
That is because you keep editing your posts several minutes and posts after you submitted them. You can't expect me to keep going back and looking for things you were not fast enough to think up when you sent it?
But there we have it! Substitute it for "uncomfortable" then. But it is not a good idea for anyone to have to interact more with someone that is already behaving in unwanted ways towards them.
As for justifications, take a look in the mirror. Do you know the definition of definition?

def·i·ni·tion (df-nshn)
n.
1.
a. A statement conveying fundamental character.
b. A statement of the meaning of a word, phrase, or term, as in a dictionary entry.
2. The act or process of stating a precise meaning or significance; formulation of a meaning.
3.
a. The act of making clear and distinct: a definition of one's intentions.
b. The state of being closely outlined or determined: "With the drizzle, the trees in the little clearing had lost definition" (Anthony Hyde).
c. A determination of outline, extent, or limits: the definition of a President's authority.
4.
a. The clarity of detail in an optically produced image, such as a photograph, effected by a combination of resolution and contrast.
b. The degree of clarity with which a televised image or broadcast signal is received.

"We" and what multiple persons, since I started posting today? Paranoia about me being another user? Get it together.


I only edit my posts within seconds, usually when I feel there was a bit more to say. I only add to my edits, not remove. And BTW, that post wasnt edited in any single way. You simply went over it. No ammount of bickering is going to make you sound more right.

See, but simply being halfway nice about things. Telling the person they did something wrong and what they did wrong was, and then continuing to move on with your life doesnt take much of a hassle. But simply labeling someone a creep is a scapegoat excuse for most.

yea, especially considering I was the only one to provide real definitions of creep and not some made up definitions.

This is a 5 page thread. Chances are someone has already said everything I said, and got tired of repeating themselves. Just as I am.
lol, you're getting very defensive now.



meems
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16 Jan 2013, 11:38 am

MXH wrote:
meems wrote:
I don't think "creep" means "psychopath". I have never equated the two.

Creeps are people who are violating other people's boundaries. If they need to be shamed in order for them to stop doing it, then so be it.

I can't be any clearer.


Ive never said they dont deserve to be told. Reread my posts. I have said that you can use better language to not just get yourself off danger but also help a guy like the one in the story you posted about. Without taking any extra effort. Without diminishing the effectiveness of simply labeling someone (which isnt a lot). All by just using a couple of words instead of blanket word.


Believe me, I've made the mistake of trying to explain to someone they're making me uncomfortable, and rarely got a reaction that didn't make me feel more uncomfortable. Sometimes, it has only served to let the creep have an opportunity to corner me and make me feel even more threatened because it upsets them that I've said they are making me uncomfortable.

It's not my job to educate some stranger about social behavior. It's my job to try to be safe.

The word creep works. With human language, ambiguity is acceptable. People I've experienced generally can tell the difference between someone who is being a creep, and someone who is just kind of awkward.

And creeps might be dangerous or they might not, but they are definitely making someone uncomfortable. I don't get creeped out and think "omg this person is a psycho sex murderer" but I do think "I want to get away from this person who is violating my boundaries."

And dialaforawesome, if someone comes up to you when you're reading, and says you're creepy, I hope you would recognize that THEIR behavior is violating YOUR boundaries and is creepy. Someone calling you creepy doesn't mean you are creepy, but I expect you recognize that.


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16 Jan 2013, 11:43 am

Women usually use the term creep to mean "potential sexual-predator" at least when they're calling a guy one. But sexual predators often have ASPD, so they don't appear at all creepy or make the woman feel uncomfortable(quite the opposite) at least initially. In other words, the real creeps are ones that are good at fooling people into thinking they're trustworthy.



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16 Jan 2013, 11:46 am

meems wrote:


Believe me, I've made the mistake of trying to explain to someone they're making me uncomfortable, and rarely got a reaction that didn't make me feel more uncomfortable. Sometimes, it has only served to let the creep have an opportunity to corner me and make me feel even more threatened because it upsets them that I've said they are making me uncomfortable.

It's not my job to educate some stranger about social behavior. It's my job to try to be safe.

The word creep works. With human language, ambiguity is acceptable. People I've experienced generally can tell the difference between someone who is being a creep, and someone who is just kind of awkward.

And creeps might be dangerous or they might not, but they are definitely making someone uncomfortable. I don't get creeped out and think "omg this person is a psycho sex murderer" but I do think "I want to get away from this person who is violating my boundaries."

And dialaforawesome, if someone comes up to you when you're reading, and says you're creepy, I hope you would recognize that THEIR behavior is violating YOUR boundaries and is creepy. Someone calling you creepy doesn't mean you are creepy, but I expect you recognize that.


No need to explain, just say you're making me uncomfortable and leave the area. Just as if you said you're making me creepy and left the area.

Education leads to safety. Safe sex education for example. You cant expect for people to change behavior just because you told them 1 word. A real "creep" isnt going to stop just because you label him. But one that simply got a bad situation like the one in the post you made can learn from it instead of having to go around still being a creep and taking years to figure out what he did wrong.

No, no, and no. It doesnt work because it doesnt fix the problem, it just brushes it away. Ambiguity isnt "acceptable" because it means theres an ability of letting things stray far from the truth. And just because you can tell the difference on a couple of people doesnt mean you can tell on all people in all situations. Again, because creepyness is variable even in the same situation to the same person.



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16 Jan 2013, 11:48 am

Venger wrote:
Women usually use the term creep to mean "potential sexual-predator" at least when they're calling a guy one. But sexual predators often have ASPD, so they don't appear at all creepy or make the woman feel uncomfortable(quite the opposite) at least initially. In other words, the real creeps are ones that are good at fooling people into thinking they're trustworthy.


In my experience hanging out with women at clubs/bars, the so called creeps arent the ASPD guys. Its usually the guys that think being overly forward, as in bad pick up lines, bad oogling, violating personal space, etc. But guess what, they wouldnt be doing it unless they thought it worked.



BlueMax
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16 Jan 2013, 11:50 am

MXH wrote:
You both keep missing the point. Im not even sure what you're saying to justify missing it. The term creepy as just unjustified behavior can not exist properly because behavior response is never the same even to the same person doing the same action.

As venger said, most psychopaths were never creeps. Most actually dangerous persons were never creeps. The creep you both talk about is the fat guy or nerdy guy with no "game". Ive seen a group of girls taunt a guy and call him a creep for as much as trying to start a conversation yet a random guy walks in, grabs one and makes out/gropes her and the rest cheer on. Not even 5 words said. So the guy that actually posed any ammount of unwarranted/dangerous behavior is not a creep. Why? because hes hot. This is my problem with the term creep. Until there is a real checklist of what a creep is, just as there is for any other insult, it is not a justifiable thing to say.

meems wrote:
For the purpose of this discussion, creepy behavior is pretty much defined as any behavior that is making others uncomfortable, and is unwanted behavior.

And slu*ty behavior is honestly no one else's business, so if it makes them uncomfortable, they need to stop thinking about what's going on in that slu*ty person's sex life. It's not being pushed on anyone else.

Creepy behavior is actually effecting other people.

You know what - these both work because in both cases - only the creep's behaviour is unwanted. The attractive, desirable, "hot" guy's actions ARE wanted (in most cases) therefore he gets away with far, far more. The unwanted man's actions are considered creepy almost right from the get-go... sometimes even his mere presence in the room!
Solution? The only one I can see is to become more desirable - and a few members have even proven this by getting all buff and well-dressed, then finding themselves almost flocked with admirers! Life is far easier for the desirable, much harder for the unwanted "creep".



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16 Jan 2013, 11:53 am

BlueMax wrote:
MXH wrote:
You both keep missing the point. Im not even sure what you're saying to justify missing it. The term creepy as just unjustified behavior can not exist properly because behavior response is never the same even to the same person doing the same action.

As venger said, most psychopaths were never creeps. Most actually dangerous persons were never creeps. The creep you both talk about is the fat guy or nerdy guy with no "game". Ive seen a group of girls taunt a guy and call him a creep for as much as trying to start a conversation yet a random guy walks in, grabs one and makes out/gropes her and the rest cheer on. Not even 5 words said. So the guy that actually posed any ammount of unwarranted/dangerous behavior is not a creep. Why? because hes hot. This is my problem with the term creep. Until there is a real checklist of what a creep is, just as there is for any other insult, it is not a justifiable thing to say.

meems wrote:
For the purpose of this discussion, creepy behavior is pretty much defined as any behavior that is making others uncomfortable, and is unwanted behavior.

And slu*ty behavior is honestly no one else's business, so if it makes them uncomfortable, they need to stop thinking about what's going on in that slu*ty person's sex life. It's not being pushed on anyone else.

Creepy behavior is actually effecting other people.

You know what - these both work because in both cases - only the creep's behaviour is unwanted. The attractive, desirable, "hot" guy's actions ARE wanted (in most cases) therefore he gets away with far, far more. The unwanted man's actions are considered creepy almost right from the get-go... sometimes even his mere presence in the room!
Solution? The only one I can see is to become more desirable - and a few members have even proven this by getting all buff and well-dressed, then finding themselves almost flocked with admirers! Life is far easier for the desirable, much harder for the unwanted "creep".


Which ive said before. That creepyness is subjective even in a deja vu scenario. Im sure with the wrong song playing and wrong temperature in the club most girls will find ryan gosslin creepy.



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16 Jan 2013, 12:00 pm

MXH wrote:
Which ive said before. That creepyness is subjective even in a deja vu scenario. Im sure with the wrong song playing and wrong temperature in the club most girls will find ryan gosslin creepy.


*scenario*
Guy requests romantic song "Dream Weaver" to play when he approaches attractive girl.
Guy gives cue to DJ as he approaches...
Girl looks up at guy as the song starts with its eerie horror-style high string intro... (!)
Girl runs screaming from building.
DJ facepalms and says, "timing, dude... timing!"
Image



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16 Jan 2013, 12:10 pm

Venger wrote:
Women usually use the term creep to mean "potential sexual-predator" at least when they're calling a guy one. But sexual predators often have ASPD, so they don't appear at all creepy or make the woman feel uncomfortable(quite the opposite) at least initially. In other words, the real creeps are ones that are good at fooling people into thinking they're trustworthy.


If I think a guy is a possible sexual predator, that's pretty specific and I'm going to call it what it is. Not that I'm going to tell that person one on one that I'm afraid of them.


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16 Jan 2013, 12:16 pm

DialAForAwesome wrote:
meems wrote:
Unwanted behavior. Toward another person or multiple people.


Coulda fooled me. I'm supposed to not go to the library to read? :lol: (I'm kinda joking about this, but I've done plenty of harmless things and been called a creep. My first thought isn't going to be "I need to stop this creepy behavior." My first thought is "why don't people leave me the @#$% alone?")


Yeah, it's not fair for someone to be told to change their behaviour if they are called a creep for no real reason. I usually hang around more mature people now lol but in school I heard some boys being called that name when I was thinking that those boys are just shy or fat or something. Now these are preteen boys so obviously they aren't predators or something, it was just a mean name that they were given because a girl didn't like him.



meems
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16 Jan 2013, 12:19 pm

MXH wrote:
meems wrote:


Believe me, I've made the mistake of trying to explain to someone they're making me uncomfortable, and rarely got a reaction that didn't make me feel more uncomfortable. Sometimes, it has only served to let the creep have an opportunity to corner me and make me feel even more threatened because it upsets them that I've said they are making me uncomfortable.

It's not my job to educate some stranger about social behavior. It's my job to try to be safe.

The word creep works. With human language, ambiguity is acceptable. People I've experienced generally can tell the difference between someone who is being a creep, and someone who is just kind of awkward.

And creeps might be dangerous or they might not, but they are definitely making someone uncomfortable. I don't get creeped out and think "omg this person is a psycho sex murderer" but I do think "I want to get away from this person who is violating my boundaries."

And dialaforawesome, if someone comes up to you when you're reading, and says you're creepy, I hope you would recognize that THEIR behavior is violating YOUR boundaries and is creepy. Someone calling you creepy doesn't mean you are creepy, but I expect you recognize that.


No need to explain, just say you're making me uncomfortable and leave the area. Just as if you said you're making me creepy and left the area.

Education leads to safety. Safe sex education for example. You cant expect for people to change behavior just because you told them 1 word. A real "creep" isnt going to stop just because you label him. But one that simply got a bad situation like the one in the post you made can learn from it instead of having to go around still being a creep and taking years to figure out what he did wrong.

No, no, and no. It doesnt work because it doesnt fix the problem, it just brushes it away. Ambiguity isnt "acceptable" because it means theres an ability of letting things stray far from the truth. And just because you can tell the difference on a couple of people doesnt mean you can tell on all people in all situations. Again, because creepyness is variable even in the same situation to the same person.


It's not my job to fix the problem. Like the girl who called that guy Ben a creep, she went to her parents and possibly the school, or her parents did. The school went to his parents, the school did their part and his parents failed him.

It's not my job to put myself in danger by explaining on the spot that I feel unsafe.

If it's someone in my social group I might ask for friend's help in talking to him.

I never really call it out when I feel unsafe, especially if it could lead to me being cornered. I tell my friends so they understand I need to stay in a group until I feel safe again.

If they said "let's beat this creep up" that would be problematic. But they don't do that. They just respond to my feeling unsafe by helping me get out of that situation.

Whether or not it's fair to the person who makes me feel unsafe that I've called them a creep is really not top priority. Helping them change their behavior is not my concern unless I know them and can talk to them in a group.

In that case, I expect no one to say "stop being a creep" and consider it resolved. In that case, I WILL address specific behavior and explain why it makes me uncomfortable and try to help them change it if they are willing.


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16 Jan 2013, 12:23 pm

BlueMax wrote:
Solution? The only one I can see is to become more desirable - and a few members have even proven this by getting all buff and well-dressed, then finding themselves almost flocked with admirers!

I second this! As soon as I started being more mindful of my appearence the dates started trickling in. I'm sure there are plenty of women who'd still consider me a creeper but with a minimal amount of effort is all it takes to attract some positive attention from the right females.

It's really not that hard or time consuming to dress nice and smell good.



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16 Jan 2013, 12:51 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
Solution? The only one I can see is to become more desirable - and a few members have even proven this by getting all buff and well-dressed, then finding themselves almost flocked with admirers!

I second this! As soon as I started being more mindful of my appearence the dates started trickling in. I'm sure there are plenty of women who'd still consider me a creeper but with a minimal amount of effort is all it takes to attract some positive attention from the right females.

It's really not that hard or time consuming to dress nice and smell good.

Yep... and it definitely works in the opposite direction... the worse you look, the worse you smell, the more awkward you hold your stance/body/move head & eyes, the more "creepy" you'll appear merely by being in the room, let alone saying a word!

Some people also take this one step further by also including anyone that they consider threatening. Lots of or a few terrible experiences with a specific gender or type of person like the Macho Alpha or Plastic Princess, the mere sight of someone like that sets of the "creepy" alarm. In that case it's subjective and there's nothing you can do to appease that person... but that's one, not a crowd.

The more appealing you make yourself (including cleanliness, odour, muscle vs fat, posture, facial expression, gaze, etc.) the less likely you'll turn people off by your mere presence - making general life easier across the board. It'll help in the romance department too... but it's no guarantee.



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16 Jan 2013, 1:01 pm

BlueMax wrote:
Some people also take this one step further by also including anyone that they consider threatening. Lots of or a few terrible experiences with a specific gender or type of person like the Macho Alpha or Plastic Princess, the mere sight of someone like that sets of the "creepy" alarm. In that case it's subjective and there's nothing you can do to appease that person... but that's one, not a crowd.


For some reason, Michael Jackson comes to mind - the misunderstood man who was called a creep so much in his later life because of his unusual appearance and qualities. Yet after his death, there was an incredible amount of support for him.

I guess that even keeping yourself groomed and being a celebrity doesn't make you immune