There is no spontaneous relationship

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21 Dec 2013, 1:13 pm

Here's my example with a typical nice guy. I have to state at the beginning that most aspie guys I know are not like this at all but they have their own unique personality.

I first met this guy (age 31, I was two years younger) in a group of fellow aspies. He liked sitting next to me and talking to me and started writing long e-mails and initiated hour-long chat conversations about AS-related things. He was not the man of my dreams at all and since he never seemed to show any interest in me as a woman, I responded his e-mails. After a couple of weeks he wanted to date me. I refused because 1.I was in a relationship (he was aware of that), 2.I did not like him as a man at all. Despite having heard my clear response, he did not give up. He started writing to me in a namby-pamby style which was rather annoying (he thought it was nice). That was the moment I stopped responding to him. He still asked me three more times if I wanted to go out with him. Three more times I said no. As he confessed later, he was hoping that me and my boyfriend would not get along and if the case had been so, he would have been a good alternative for me. 8O
After finally understanding that he would get nothing from me, he started to make a scene behind my back. He contacted the fellow aspie girl who put the whole group together and therefore had a sort of leading role in the group, and made up a story full of lies about me in order to discredit me in front of her and the whole group. He described me as a woesome evil who was just playing with him, and himself as the innocent victim (his predictions did not come true as the group got to know me better and realized that I was not like he said at all).
He constantly complained of women like "women only date jerks", "women refuse me because they cannot see and appreciate my morals", "women are so strange because they only care about a guy being handsome and rich". But the truth is that while such guys are not famous for caring about their own looks at all, they expect their partner to look like a supermodel. And after getting rejection to lots of supermodels and party queens, they develop such a despising and cynical mood towards women in general.
They are also known for saying "I am a good guy" a lot, but the moment they realize that something is not happening the way they wish, their "good manners" change into something very negative.



leafplant
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21 Dec 2013, 1:46 pm

aspiemike wrote:
leafplant wrote:
aspiemike wrote:

Why women dont understand this is that when they tell the man they need space, it's an indicator that they are thinking of ending the relationship.


This would explain why all of my exes were so clingy. I didn't know I was likely an Aspie so wouldn't have known to point out that me needing space was not an indicator that I was bored of them and wanted to end the relationship. In fact, I actually did think I was bored and wanted to end the relationship. But maybe I am just like a guy and if I think about it like a guy maybe I can have a relationship after all - with a guy who is ok with a woman behaving like a guy...

yeah..I can see this working out really well :roll:


So.. you dated men who were feminine, and you were the masculine one? I'm not quite sure how to interpret what you said.


Um, not really. I mean that I need a lot of 'me time' which is not something most people associate with a woman in a relationship. Usually the woman has to want to be together all the time and the guy needs alone time, but with me, I need ridiculous amounts of alone time but because in the past I didn't suspect I was AS, it just seemed like I wasn't into the relationship - even to me. I think I used to think that the reason I need so much alone time is because I am not with the right person, but that turned out not to be the case - I need alone time anyway.



Flyer
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21 Dec 2013, 3:58 pm

semota, thank you for a good nonsexist post.

semota wrote:
The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

Maybe they're biologically determined, but we still make the final choice ourselves. Do you really think that aspie men often overlook geeky girls? Is this from your personal experience or WP.net? I'm not trying to proove anything here. I'm just interested in your experience in this topic. Most aspie/geeky girls I know are married and happy about their husbands.



semota
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21 Dec 2013, 4:05 pm

Flyer wrote:
semota, thank you for a good nonsexist post.
semota wrote:
The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

Maybe they're biologically determined, but we still make the final choice ourselves. Do you really think that aspie men often overlook geeky girls? Is this from your personal experience or WP.net? I'm not trying to proove anything here. I'm just interested in your experience in this topic. Most aspie/geeky girls I know are married and happy about their husbands.


I know a lot of aspies who think like that, and I know other aspies who think more independently. However, I've found that those aspies who were able to reveal their real preferences and get rid of the socially-coded value system could form relationships more easily.

My value as a sexual object is not relevant for the case, I don't see why everybody keeps asking about it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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21 Dec 2013, 4:39 pm

semota wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
semota wrote:
I think that the problem is that whilst we aspies take pride in being independent thinkers, most of us takes over the mainstream criteria for attractiveness without questioning. Instead of being proud to be an aspie, we measure ourselves with the mainstream criteria -- the criteria defined by the neurotypical majority. We apply the mainstream criteria for success, the mainstream criteria for attractiveness etc. and we punish ourselves if we fail to conform to these criteria. In essence, we don't think about ourselves as aspies but as "defective NTs".

The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

What's more, these aspie guys often complain that these conventionally attractive girls reject them because they're so shallow and cannot see their "hidden depths". I think that going for the conventionally attractive and rejecting the girls with with less "mainstream" looks and behavior is as shallow as rejecting a guy because of his geeky appearance and behaviour. (This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)

Also, I think that those aspies who are OK with the fact that they are aspies (and don't treat themselves as "defective NTs") have no problem with dating aspies either. And they have no problems with the aspie traits either.


You are spitting out a lot of sexism; implying that aspie guys like this and do that.

:roll: Now I understand your projections; usually those who quickly judge of some ill-behavior/thinking are the ones who have most of this ill behavior.


I can see that you're hurt and you're desperately trying to "hit back" somehow.

I didn't write that aspie guys in general do this or that. I wrote about a certain behaviour which is quite common, but I didn't generalize it to all of the aspie guys. I also had a remark "(This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)" which means that my statement is too for a significant numer of aspie girls as well.

In fact, most aspie guys I know personally are not like that -- they don't go for the conventionally attractive girls, but they have their own system of criteria. However, WP is full of topics and comments a la "OMG I'm such a nice guy but conventionally attractive hotties don't pay attention to me".


I was raised by two working parents with egalitarian values, so I found it offensive being accused by someone behind the screen who knows nothing.

And yes, your comment was about certain aspie guys, of a specific gender, so by your own reasoning it was a sexist implication too. Anyway, I got enough of your bollocks. /adding you to the ignore list.



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21 Dec 2013, 5:40 pm

But the post count is so low. Such a shame.



aspiemike
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21 Dec 2013, 9:03 pm

leafplant wrote:
Um, not really. I mean that I need a lot of 'me time' which is not something most people associate with a woman in a relationship. Usually the woman has to want to be together all the time and the guy needs alone time, but with me, I need ridiculous amounts of alone time but because in the past I didn't suspect I was AS, it just seemed like I wasn't into the relationship - even to me. I think I used to think that the reason I need so much alone time is because I am not with the right person, but that turned out not to be the case - I need alone time anyway.


Alright. I can understand this. I know my parents need the alone time, and away from eachother as well. My mother even admits this herself. So this isn't uncommon either. It's somewhat natural as it allows the two people to miss eachother. If one or both don't miss eachother, then the relationship has no chance of continuing.


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24 Dec 2013, 9:31 am

semota wrote:
I think that the problem is that whilst we aspies take pride in being independent thinkers, most of us takes over the mainstream criteria for attractiveness without questioning. Instead of being proud to be an aspie, we measure ourselves with the mainstream criteria -- the criteria defined by the neurotypical majority. We apply the mainstream criteria for success, the mainstream criteria for attractiveness etc. and we punish ourselves if we fail to conform to these criteria. In essence, we don't think about ourselves as aspies but as "defective NTs".

The same pertains to relationships as well. Instead of revealing our true preferences and applying them, we yearn for those members of the opposite sex who are presented as attractive by the media, or who are considered to be attractive in our social milieu. People just don't seem to realize that these preferences are not biologically determined but they're learned. Even aspies often pursue these conventionally attractive girls, dismissing the aspie/geek girls as weird/too geeky/ugly/unattractive, who were probably more suitable for them as partners and they would also be more accepting of their unique quirks.

What's more, these aspie guys often complain that these conventionally attractive girls reject them because they're so shallow and cannot see their "hidden depths". I think that going for the conventionally attractive and rejecting the girls with with less "mainstream" looks and behavior is as shallow as rejecting a guy because of his geeky appearance and behaviour. (This is also true for the gender-reversed case as well.)

Also, I think that those aspies who are OK with the fact that they are aspies (and don't treat themselves as "defective NTs") have no problem with dating aspies either. And they have no problems with the aspie traits either.

Great post! The highlighted could describe me and how I started finding success. I too have noticed some of these attitudes with the OP and others on this forum. The last bit is what I like to emphasize most.



One thing you are off base about:

I will say that the sexism accusation you're leveling at Boo is very unfounded. You're new so I can understand the confussion, but trust me, he's one of the better ones here. He does harp on his "golden trifecta" generalization a bit too much for my liking but it's based in pure logic, not sexism.

You have to admit having a car, job and own place is going to greatly improve anybodies chances, more than naught. I'm sure this is especially true in Lebanon (where he hails from.) Would it really be easy to be romantically involved with a broke dude with no reliable transportation who lives with his parents? I don't think it's necessarily a deal breaker (as I've personally known several exceptions), but dating is complicated enough even with all 3 of those things.



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27 Jan 2014, 6:43 pm

I haven't posted on wrong planet a lot because I got tired of all the man bashing BS. Then I came back today and read a few posts, and I'm quite certain I made the right decision. I have never seen a single post on the love and dating section where somebody suggested that a woman at some point in time in some place may have made a mistake, in which the post was not attacked by a lot of people. That is, unless the post was made by a woman. Instead of talking about the actual point I was trying to make, which is that I don't believe sincere spontaneous relationships are possible, people immediately started calling me a "nice guy." How a word which is supposed to mean something similar to "kind" has been turned into a bad word is beyond me.

And reading my post again, I don't even see how any of it is controversial. The last paragraph on this thread that I wrote is maybe the most controversial, and I found more justification for it right here on wrongplanet. I just read a couple woman-bashing posts in the woman's forum, one which was literally titled, "I hate women," but nobody gave a s**t because women wrote them, just like I said in my 2cd post. Also, I think it is factually inescapable that women are physically dependent on men, both historically, and today. Historically/prehistorically I don't think anyone could argue that women could have survived on their own, and even today when we have "emancipated women," the vast majority of all coal miners, garbage men, engineers, mechanics, farmers, and other people who provide us with basic necessities of life, are men. If all the women in the world disappeared, there would be a lot of sad and lonely men. If all the men in the world disappeared, the power would go out, and women would starve to death by the billions. I don't see how that's an arguable point. The only difference between now and antiquity is that women are less dependent on any individual man, but her instincts don't know that.

That's actually a dynamic between men and women that I think is important. I heard some idiot male feminist say recently that women probably like to look at dicks the same way men like to look at boobs. It's my understanding that women don't really give a s**t about staring at dicks, just so long as they get some when they want it, and the man gives her something in return. I've even heard that some women find penises repulsive the first time they see them, which some posts on the women's forum would also make me think. Women don't lust after men the same way men lust after women, which makes men emotionally dependent on women, which gives women power. Men want women for sex, and women want men for what what they can do for them. You also see this how women are so worried about their image, and say they wear make up so that they, "feel sexy," even if they aren't doing it for any particular man. They care more about men lusting after them, than they care about lusting themselves, because they want men to give them things.

But I'm not even going to visit wrong planet again. I don't give a s**t what any of you think of me. I came here a long time ago looking for real advice for problems, and all I saw was a bunch of horses**t. I guess this is what you get around a large group of guys with no female attention; their instincts tell them that they have to do whatever women say at all times. And you women think there's pervasive sexism on this site for there to be any men who even have the audacity to voice their honest opinion, even though the rest of the men are quick to bash them down. By the way, having people come to shame people who hurt men's feelings is something that never happens, in case you hadn't noticed. Anyway, I don't have any respect for people who care more about their feelings than what's true, which is all of you guys, in every forum. Bye, and I know you guys won't miss me.



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28 Jan 2014, 4:15 am

"I don't care what you guys think of me! Therefore, when any of you criticise me, I'll throw a hissy fit and leave!"


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