AS dating a NT - is it morally right?

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imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 3:43 pm

OK. Right.

From:
https://www.verywell.com/is-it-asperger-syndrome-259942


Aspergers (or, now, "Level 1 Autism") usually include:

difficulty with social and communication skills (the ability to "read" body language, understand sarcasm, etc.),
sensitivity to loud noise, bright lights, and other sensory input
difficulty with changes in routines
desire to talk and think about only a few topics of special interest
challenges with empathy (imagining what other people are thinking or feeling)



imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 3:50 pm

I'd like to honestly ask the two of you exactly what YOU think autism is then. If there is no problem with empathy, what does it mean? Why is it so difficult for people who have autism? Why do asperger's individuals have a hard time in relationships? Is that because of difficulty with social skills? Where does that come from? Why, then, is it such a pervasive problem that asperger's individuals seem to push people who care about them away? That has come up on this forum a zillion times, both with NTs trying to figure out what to do to fix it, and by AS trying to understand why they have challenges with friends or women. Why is that?



Last edited by imhere on 17 Mar 2018, 3:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cberg
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17 Mar 2018, 3:51 pm

Kthxbai, I'm done being tarred by such broad brushes.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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17 Mar 2018, 3:51 pm

imhere wrote:
OK. Right.

From:
https://www.verywell.com/is-it-asperger-syndrome-259942


Aspergers (or, now, "Level 1 Autism") usually include:

difficulty with social and communication skills (the ability to "read" body language, understand sarcasm, etc.),
sensitivity to loud noise, bright lights, and other sensory input
difficulty with changes in routines
desire to talk and think about only a few topics of special interest
challenges with empathy (imagining what other people are thinking or feeling)


Some people with autism have alexithymia (the inability to identify their own feelings) and this can lead those people to struggle with affective empathy. Most of us however don't have alexithymia and can empathize.

https://spectrumnews.org/opinion/viewpo ... l-empathy/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -empathy1/

http://www.defyingthespectrum.com/autis ... ness-2015/

You obviously don't understand what empathy is and how it works, or much about autism. Please stop propagating misinformation and stereotypes about autism on this forum. You are not helping anyone, including yourself.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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17 Mar 2018, 3:52 pm

cberg wrote:
Kthxbai, I'm done being tarred by such broad brushes.


This person obviously has a strong bias against autistic people because of a bad experience she had with one guy and a lot of misinformation she has bought into. Please don't listen to her hateful rhetoric.



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17 Mar 2018, 3:54 pm

imhere wrote:
I'd like to honestly ask the two of you exactly what YOU think autism is then. If there is no problem with empathy, what does it mean? Why is it so difficult for people who have autism? Why do asperger's individuals have a hard time in relationships? Is that because of difficulty with social skills? Where does that come from? Why, then, is it such a pervasive problem that asperger's individuals seem to push people who care about them away? That has come up on this forum a zillion times, both with NTs trying to figure out what to do to fix it, and by AS trying to understand why they have challenges with friends or women. Why is that?

and I'm not being an arse. I really really want to freaking know this because I love an aspie and I just want to freaking know already what the freak is going on with him.


Not all "aspies" are men having trouble with women. Your bias and sexism are not welcome here.

Personally, my social problems mostly stem from others not accepting my different way of approaching things and my different appearance (not being stereotypically feminine or caring much for style) which make NTs uncomfortable. If the world were more accepting of difference, my social struggles would be lessened considerably. I don't intentionally push people away, I get pushed away for being different. This is true for many of us. Honestly, it sounds like your own inability to imagine what it might like to be autistic, your own lack of empathy for the perspective of the neurodivergent population, is the main problem here.



imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 4:01 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
imhere wrote:
I'd like to honestly ask the two of you exactly what YOU think autism is then. If there is no problem with empathy, what does it mean? Why is it so difficult for people who have autism? Why do asperger's individuals have a hard time in relationships? Is that because of difficulty with social skills? Where does that come from? Why, then, is it such a pervasive problem that asperger's individuals seem to push people who care about them away? That has come up on this forum a zillion times, both with NTs trying to figure out what to do to fix it, and by AS trying to understand why they have challenges with friends or women. Why is that?

and I'm not being an arse. I really really want to freaking know this because I love an aspie and I just want to freaking know already what the freak is going on with him.


Not all "aspies" are men having trouble with women. Your bias and sexism are not welcome here.

Personally, my social problems mostly stem from others not accepting my different way of approaching things and my different appearance (not being stereotypically feminine or caring much for style) which make NTs uncomfortable. If the world were more accepting of difference, my social struggles would be lessened considerably. I don't intentionally push people away, I get pushed away for being different. This is true for many of us. Honestly, it sounds like your own inability to imagine what it might like to be autistic, your own lack of empathy for the perspective of the neurodivergent population, is the main problem here.


So it's everyone else's fault and the world's problem that you have difficulties. Got it. Asperger's is a myth then. There are no symptoms and no effect on the loved ones of people who mistakenly were diagnosed with something that does not exist. And if someone did care for you, then they would have to accept you or get out. Because there is nothing about asperger's that would cause a relationship any problems whatsoever.



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17 Mar 2018, 4:07 pm

imhere wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
imhere wrote:
I'd like to honestly ask the two of you exactly what YOU think autism is then. If there is no problem with empathy, what does it mean? Why is it so difficult for people who have autism? Why do asperger's individuals have a hard time in relationships? Is that because of difficulty with social skills? Where does that come from? Why, then, is it such a pervasive problem that asperger's individuals seem to push people who care about them away? That has come up on this forum a zillion times, both with NTs trying to figure out what to do to fix it, and by AS trying to understand why they have challenges with friends or women. Why is that?

and I'm not being an arse. I really really want to freaking know this because I love an aspie and I just want to freaking know already what the freak is going on with him.


Not all "aspies" are men having trouble with women. Your bias and sexism are not welcome here.

Personally, my social problems mostly stem from others not accepting my different way of approaching things and my different appearance (not being stereotypically feminine or caring much for style) which make NTs uncomfortable. If the world were more accepting of difference, my social struggles would be lessened considerably. I don't intentionally push people away, I get pushed away for being different. This is true for many of us. Honestly, it sounds like your own inability to imagine what it might like to be autistic, your own lack of empathy for the perspective of the neurodivergent population, is the main problem here.


So it's everyone else's fault and the world's problem that you have difficulties. Got it. Asperger's is a myth then. There are no symptoms and no effect on the loved ones of people who mistakenly were diagnosed with something that does not exist.


Now you are putting words in my mouth. Asperger's is not a diagnosis anymore, I keep saying that. Autism Spectrum Disorder, what I have, is a real thing though. Attempting to talk to you is pointless, you don't want to learn about autism you just want to bad-mouth us because you had a bad experience with one person. You are arguing in bad faith. I hope you read some of the information I provided and learn a bit.



imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 4:11 pm

I personally think you're bitter and angry. And I also noticed that not one person tried to actually read what I wrote about asking the difference between being cold and just coming off as cold. I think it hit too close to home and some of you don't want to admit to yourselves that people do see some of your behaviors as cold and you don't like that. You call it "differences" though. Differences is irrelevant. I just asked for clarification and tried to open a discussion. Don't participate in it if you don't want to. I for one, want to understand. But if it is pointless, then No, to the OP, it is NOT morally right to have an aspie/NT relationship. The Aspie will destroy the NT. Look how "cold" they are. Oh, maybe they just came off as cold. My bad.



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17 Mar 2018, 4:15 pm

You really can't determine other people's reading comprehension through a screen.

Feeling pretty frigid today alright. :roll:

I wonder why.


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imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 4:22 pm

It's ridiculous. Everything I said was nothing more than a description of what I experienced on the other side of a person with Asperger's. I observed, I saw how he was behaving, that behavior was very far outside of normal or average behavior and it made no sense. I know it is due to his Asperger's.

I still don't understand the difference between being cold and coming off as cold. I think my description of the situation with my aspie friend is a pretty strong one. If any of you experienced anything like that, what is the difference? He behaved cold. No two ways about it, that was cold. But what was in his head? I'll never know because he can't/won't talk about what's in his head. If you can't help to explain or give a perspective on that, then don't respond.



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17 Mar 2018, 4:24 pm

imhere wrote:
I personally think you're bitter and angry. And I also noticed that not one person tried to actually read what I wrote about asking the difference between being cold and just coming off as cold. I think it hit too close to home and some of you don't want to admit to yourselves that people do see some of your behaviors as cold and you don't like that. You call it "differences" though. Differences is irrelevant. I just asked for clarification and tried to open a discussion. Don't participate in it if you don't want to. I for one, want to understand. But if it is pointless, then No, to the OP, it is NOT morally right to have an aspie/NT relationship. The Aspie will destroy the NT. Look how "cold" they are. Oh, maybe they just came off as cold. My bad.


You've had this explained to you many times, and you've been here long enough that if you were capable of empathizing with autistic people what you have read would have informed you about the autism experience by now. You don't want to understand, you want to continue to negatively judge autistic people based on the one person you know who was autistic that you think treated you poorly. Please stop this and get some help for your hatred of autistic people.



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17 Mar 2018, 4:25 pm

That's crazy. You really are bitter and angry at the world.



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17 Mar 2018, 4:27 pm

imhere wrote:
I personally think you're bitter and angry. And I also noticed that not one person tried to actually read what I wrote about asking the difference between being cold and just coming off as cold. I think it hit too close to home and some of you don't want to admit to yourselves that people do see some of your behaviors as cold and you don't like that. You call it "differences" though. Differences is irrelevant. I just asked for clarification and tried to open a discussion. Don't participate in it if you don't want to. I for one, want to understand. But if it is pointless, then No, to the OP, it is NOT morally right to have an aspie/NT relationship. The Aspie will destroy the NT. Look how "cold" they are. Oh, maybe they just came off as cold. My bad.


All you do is attribute our behaviour to explanations that you make yourself, and don't actually listen to autistic people when they explain their bevaviour because you can't seem to understand so you just make up motivations that make sense to you instead of reading the words of actual autistic people. You don't want to learn, you want to tell us we are cold awful people out to "destroy" NTs with our coldness. You are not open to listening at all. I am not the one who is bitter and angry here.



imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 4:34 pm

So many have often said that people with asperger's come off as cold, they don't mean it though, etc. Here is someone trying to understand that. There WAS cold behavior on the part of someone who is aspie. Many cold things. So if the person is not actually cold, which I do not believe anyone is implicitly naturally cold, then I'd like for someone to simply explain the internals of how that is working on the inside then, and what is the difference between being cold and behaving as such. What was really going on if we are not going to say the person themselves is cold, which I do not believe to be the case? Why behave so badly towards someone who is close to you? And why did this only start to happen after that closeness came to be but not before? That's come up so many times too. What is behind that? I can read clinical information all day. That means nothing. I would rather hear from the autistic perspective what might go on in someone's head who behaved before in a similar fashion and who maybe was perceived as cold. What is wrong with that?



imhere
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17 Mar 2018, 4:36 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
imhere wrote:
I personally think you're bitter and angry. And I also noticed that not one person tried to actually read what I wrote about asking the difference between being cold and just coming off as cold. I think it hit too close to home and some of you don't want to admit to yourselves that people do see some of your behaviors as cold and you don't like that. You call it "differences" though. Differences is irrelevant. I just asked for clarification and tried to open a discussion. Don't participate in it if you don't want to. I for one, want to understand. But if it is pointless, then No, to the OP, it is NOT morally right to have an aspie/NT relationship. The Aspie will destroy the NT. Look how "cold" they are. Oh, maybe they just came off as cold. My bad.


All you do is attribute our behaviour to explanations that you make yourself, and don't actually listen to autistic people when they explain their bevaviour because you can't seem to understand so you just make up motivations that make sense to you instead of reading the words of actual autistic people. You don't want to learn, you want to tell us we are cold awful people out to "destroy" NTs with our coldness. You are not open to listening at all. I am not the one who is bitter and angry here.


You never explained anything. You just lash out. No one is attacking you. This US against THEM attitude of yours is unbelievable.