WTF is up with this "entitled to sex" meme?

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Sorry, it's not the case in my world. I never expect someone else will pay for my meal, male or female. If someone wants to, and I know he or she can well afford it, then okay, but normally it's an "I'll get it next time" sort of thing. I pay for students I go out with regardless of gender, because I know they have no money and I don't want to eat or drink in crap student places. But I'm also a big girl and I don't "get taken out", I go out. If I'm with a guy who looks prone to being gallant and I don't want him paying, a discreet word to the server -- "Could we get separate checks, please" -- is all that's needed.

I'm thinking back...no, even when I was a kid, the only reason I wasn't paying my own way was if my boyfriend was loaded, or I was out with faculty who had salaries. Otherwise, wtf. I think it's a matter of politeness more than anything else -- if I have friends over to my house for dinner, they'll offer to bring part of the meal. They don't just expect to show up and be fed.

My friends don't expect me to pay for them, either, if I suggest brunch or dinner at a restaurant. I think they'd be very much surprised by the idea.

I think there is a real class divide on expectations on this forum, with a lot of advice given from a middle class university educated background. People from working class or lower backgrounds do not behave in the same way and a lot of advice I see is inappropriate for that such as most women in my town would be put off a man for having a degree, and would want him to pay for dinner and other such things, its a completely different world view.

also a lot of advice given is idealistic, as in, what things should be like, not how things actually are.

i never claimed to speak for the majority of women on earth--i merely asked him to reconsider his conviction that the majority of women don't want to pay their own way on dates. it is not even remotely the same thing as saying i speak for most women.

i come from a working class background in a relatively back-water town, and i was taught to pay my own way and that being a girl does not entitle me to a free ride in life. i don't think it's necessarily a class thing.

maybe class is not the right word, maybe educated versus uneducated, definately most 'normal' people in the UK resent intelectuals and want dinner and drinks paid for, most of the girls in night clubs here expect free drinks. Watch 'the only way is essex' on youtube to get an idea what they are like, majority of people in my town are like that.

My mother, who was born in 1917, taught me that I should always go dutch on a first date....so that the fella wouldn't be expecting me to "put out."

I'm thinking that both concepts - "going dutch" and "entitled to sex" - have been around for awhile.

If anyone's keeping track of such things: I'm from a traditional, working/lower middle class family with a stay-at-home mom.

I'm beginning to wonder if all this "entitlement" that continues to be bandied about is more of a generational thing than a cultural thing.

I'll pay for a dinner date if I am really feeling her. I'm not looking for sex though I love it. I like women who'll pay for themselves. But when I do pay, its out of good gesture. That's what's wrong with this generation. People think others owe them something. People do things out of getting in return.

But if you aren't selfish in bed and make the sex fun for both of you, you won't need a dinner just to have the sex. Lol

But I do admit. When you do nice things for a woman and get labeled as being "thirsty" that s**t does get annoying. I mean c'mon man!

Reminds me of something a friend of an old boyfriend of mine said when I told him that, no, I did not think it would be a good idea for my boyfriend and I to have sex in my lounge in front of my family:

"Just get your freak on; they'll leave."

Thats exactly the quote I am talking about. "We can argue that women feel entitled to a free dinner." According to this, either I am no woman, or I feel entitled to a free dinner. Which is not true, because last time I was on the toilette, I definitely was a woman, and I dont feel entitled to free dinners. As I mentioned, the relevant thing is the usage of words, descricing a certain amount or limitation like "some", "many", "few"...then it can be totally correct, because there are some women that feel entitled to free dinners, just as there are some men that feel entitled to be lazy slobs, and there is nothing bad mentioning that, because its the truth.

But without the usage of this words, you are simply generalizing a gigantic bunch of people with prejudices, and its totally normal that people get pissed, when someone throws wrong prejudices at them.

Ok, I really don't get the point of your argument. Yes, people shouldn't feel self entitled, it's arrogant, but equating an acknowledgement of a social norm i.e. the man pays for the meal, with an extremely personal physical thing is so out of perspective I can't even comprehend the argument. Allowing someone to touch you in a very personal way is not the same as buying food for someone. Can't you see how offensive that is?

I'll admit it. I expect the man to pay for the first date, but if he doesn't, I'm ready to pony up. I don't feel entitled to it. I don't feel entitled to be going on a date in the first place.

I do not expect lavish spending. I am happy with coffee first dates. Or a drink or two.

I do not expect for him to continue to pay for everything. I pay my way.

But on first dates with someone I don't know very well I want to see generosity. It's a signalling thing. Perhaps I'm wrong to treat it that way.

In a well-established relationship I expect my partner to have sex with me and to want to have sex with me. I don't feel entitled as such. But it's a sign something's really wrong if he doesn't.

I think it is a sub-culture thing. You were raised a certain way.

My opinion: I think both parties when it comes to dating need to lay out if it is a date or not, who is paying for whom, etc. My opinion is to get all of the cards on the table so there is no confusion as to what is what. Both parties need to be honest with the other about who they are.

I remember my pastor telling me a story about this. He was preaching on the virtues of honesty and this is what he did. He showed his then future wife the way he lived which was disorganized like leaving his clothes on the sofa. She still married him and still loves him to this day.

I have had to think about this hard but I think a lot of this confusion stems from a fear of rejection. Here is the thing that can apply to friendships, dates, romantic relationships or any relationship. Not everyone will like you or approve of you. There is no safe social code which one can use to make everyone like you or respect you. They will like you or they will not. My opinion, be true to yourself, and still respect others.

I say, go for the dates and the friendships who do like you for you and respect you for you. It is a fact of life that one will be rejected from time to time no matter who you are or portray yourself to be. Why pretend and fake your way and why have a fear of rejection that makes no sense when thought through, right?

If a woman expects one as a guy to pay and if one doesn't feel he should have to do that then why date those women who feel this way?

Let's say 99.9% of women did feel this way then why wouldn't the guy search out the 0.1% who do not?

What do you and others think?

I never even stated the majority of women are like this, just the majority in my area.

I agree with you. I think that the frustration we see here comes from having been yourself for years and still getting nowhere with anybody. If I take this on a personal level the only constant factor is me, so maybe I have some sort of problem. So do I need to change something? And I play around with ideas trying to work out what it is.

On the other hand one could externalize the problem and blame dating customs for the dating failures, which some people seem to turn to. As you get older it's difficult to find single people let alone single people in the 1%.

Sorry, I agreed and then went a bit negative. I can see that positivity like the blue sky as I'm looking up from the bottom of a well. I like the blue sky, but I don't think I will ever touch it.

Your body is your property and if you wanna rent it to someone who gives a fug, that's nobody else's business. Unless someone has the morality of an counterfeiter, then it would make sense to call it immoral.

This is one of the benefits of the Information Super Highway. We can actually discuss these ideas and question them. We can formulate solutions for ourselves based upon the discussions. We can look for dates and friendships as well. In the future, I predict transporters or a mode of transportation will be invented in which we will be able to criss-cross whole continents in just a few moments. Once this is done, we don't have to limit ourselves to our regions.

Imagine finding a date or friend in Paris France. Yes, I think transportation will be the next hot button. I believe the future will allow people to be themselves a lot easier then in the past.