Men asking before kissing on First Date (again this topic)

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Toy_Soldier
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23 Sep 2014, 5:27 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

Geekonychus wrote:

Boo, I honestly don't understand why you're retreading this argument in the first place. If you're not trying to date, then what's this thread for?

He just misses tarantella64 and is trying to lure her out of hiatus.

You should be my wife, you understand me perfectly.

Oh, that was quick. :roll:

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23 Sep 2014, 6:14 pm

Yuzu wrote:

^ Aren't you into that kind of stuff? Maybe that's why you attract/are attracted to those submissive girls?

Seems a little rude lol

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androbot01
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23 Sep 2014, 6:26 pm

I'll just chime in and say that I think kissing without asking is okay. But if the kissee backs away this has to be respected.

Yuzu
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23 Sep 2014, 6:59 pm

Ectryon wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

^ Aren't you into that kind of stuff? Maybe that's why you attract/are attracted to those submissive girls?

Seems a little rude lol

Nah. It's no secret that he is into BDSM so I wanted to make it clear why "the girls he was intimate with LOVED being "forcibly" dragged or ordered around." Especially for someone new to WP like you.

yellowtamarin
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23 Sep 2014, 7:14 pm

Shau wrote:

Ultimately what I suspect most of that 90% are actually opposed to are men being wussies, not obtaining consent.

You could be right, I don't know, but I'll add what the issue is for me which is neither the "wuss" thing or the "consent" thing. It's the "moment" thing. If I'm in the mood to kiss or be kissed by someone, then if that happens, fantastic! But if the person says or does something to ruin the moment, I won't be in the mood to kiss them anymore. One thing that a person can do to ruin the mood for me is to ask if they can kiss me, in a matter-of-fact permission-requesting kind of way. So yeah, there are ways to gain consent without ruining the mood, it just has to be worded and executed in a way that fits in with the situation and doesn't put the focus on the "asking for permission". The focus has to remain on being attracted to each other.

Sometimes it could be as simple as making sure you are smiling and leaning in a bit when you ask. If you sit there with a serious face, well outside my comfort zone, and just ask "can I kiss you?", 99% guaranteed for me that's going to ruin the moment and I'll probably say no. That doesn't mean I didn't want to kiss you before, it means I no longer want to because my attraction to you is no longer the thing on my mind, but rather the fact that you "unromantically" requested something from me.

Spiderpig
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23 Sep 2014, 7:33 pm

Shau wrote:

Ultimately what I suspect most of that 90% are actually opposed to are men being wussies, not obtaining consent. A lot of them like the spontaneity as well, and that one seems like a trickier problem to tackle. Perhaps a solution to that is for men and women to hold out on the thrills of spontaneity until after a few advances have been welcomed first, and it's established that the spontaneous advance has a higher chance of being desired.

As I see it, the requirements one has to meet in order not to be considered a wuss can be set arbitrarily high. So perhaps it makes sense to reject any man unwilling to risk being declared a sex offender and punished accordingly in exchange for the chance to kiss a woman as not manly enough. From this standpoint, asking is unacceptable, because it?s an attempt to cheat. Last time I felt like I understood something of this discussion, the prevailing consensus seemed to be sort of like this.

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Yuzu
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23 Sep 2014, 7:44 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

Geekonychus wrote:

Boo, I honestly don't understand why you're retreading this argument in the first place. If you're not trying to date, then what's this thread for?

He just misses tarantella64 and is trying to lure her out of hiatus.

You should be my wife, you understand me perfectly.

Actually, you should be MY wife, Face of Booette.

Ectryon
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23 Sep 2014, 7:59 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27831626

Ectryon
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23 Sep 2014, 9:13 pm

If 90% of women dont actually want to be asked are the 10% who do enough to warrant verbal permission? Perhaps we could narrow the 10% down by taking a very slow lean in and making one's intentions clear. I think that the only issue here is whether being on the autistic spectrum means that we need to compensate for our lack of NV comprehension.

italstallianion
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23 Sep 2014, 9:16 pm

They should really make women's clothes out of the material from which they make mood rings.

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23 Sep 2014, 9:26 pm

italstallianion wrote:

They should really make women's clothes out of the material from which they make mood rings.

hahaha

and the winner of the fashion innovation award is...... ITALSTALLIANION!! !! !! !

italstallianion
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23 Sep 2014, 9:37 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:

Yes, I am but I am your typical "nice guy" and am working to overcome that. After facing yet another rejection, I am going back into my gun-shy ways and getting "friend-zoned" as a result.

This sounded word for word like something I would say, so I had to double check and make sure it wasn't quoted from me.

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italstallianion
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23 Sep 2014, 9:38 pm

Ectryon wrote:

italstallianion wrote:

They should really make women's clothes out of the material from which they make mood rings.

hahaha

and the winner of the fashion innovation award is...... ITALSTALLIANION!! !! !! !

I did go to an entrepreneurial college for my undergrad, but anyone can take my idea and run with it, I just want to see it a reality, I don't need to make money off of it.

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yellowtamarin
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23 Sep 2014, 10:12 pm

Ectryon wrote:

Is that not what happens anyway? I don't think we are talking about "sweeping a woman off her feet by suddenly grabbing her out of nowhere and planting a kiss", more what I imagine is the most common way of kissing someone for the first time: start off with the positive eye contact and smiles, move closer and see if the other person responds positively, make some sort of physical contact like touching their arm or hand or leaning in like you would for a hug...if both parties move their lips toward each other, then go for it! There are ample opportunities there to get the message* that a kiss is not on the cards, and the initiator can back off if any of those occur.

*messages that even an autistic person can read, e.g. not looking you in the eyes and smiling (when you look at them and smile), moving away from you (when you lean in), turning the head away (when you move your face towards theirs), those are negative messages.

Last edited by yellowtamarin on 23 Sep 2014, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ectryon
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23 Sep 2014, 10:13 pm

italstallianion wrote:

Ectryon wrote:

italstallianion wrote:

They should really make women's clothes out of the material from which they make mood rings.

hahaha

and the winner of the fashion innovation award is...... ITALSTALLIANION!! !! !! !

I did go to an entrepreneurial college for my undergrad, but anyone can take my idea and run with it, I just want to see it a reality, I don't need to make money off of it.

Ah I thoought you were joking

I dont think that would work. Maybe smart clothing could monitor pulse piloerection pupil dilation etc however.

Dox47
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23 Sep 2014, 10:27 pm

Geekonychus wrote:

The only person here saying 'if you don't ask, you're a rapist' is the strawman living inside your head, silly.

As I can recall, "If you're socially awkward and unsure, you shouldn't be afraid to ask" is a far more accurate summary of the opposing viewpoint on the issue (its certainly mine.) But then, such a statement is relatively mild and not really inflammatory enough to dispute. Far easier to reinterpret the argument as an attack and derail it by insinuating things that weren't actually said, right? :wink:

I wasn't trying to summarize the argument so much as capture its general flavor, though some of the posts did come awfully close to actually making that argument verbatim. If you're so interested in straw men, it's surprising I didn't see you more often in those threads, I don't think I had a single post accurately responded to, though many a haystack was duly slain.

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Last edited by Dox47 on 24 Sep 2014, 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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