Is my girlfriend too much about money?
Click on the citizens advice link I posted earlier. It's a sheet of suggestions that you can fill amounts in to. Have a look over it and give it to her to look over.
Obviously the links and phone numbers on that sheet are British, but the layout is a standard budget sheet. It was the simplest one I could find.
This tells me she is unwise with her money and knows it and wants you to compensate for that rather than learn to spend her money more wisely. If she's not prepared to act like an adult and learn how to be responsible with money then why marry her? Marriage means you have to merge your finances--it seems like what she wants is for you to entirely take over and be responsible for the finances by providing everything. She sounds very sexist and old fashioned and if you are looking for an equal marriage where you share responsibility then she is the wrong person to marry. If you want to be the sole provider and be like a parent letting her have money and telling her how to spend it then she sounds like the type to prefer that arrangement.
I personally wouldn't want to marry someone who expected me to parent them and expected to get away with not taking on adult responsibilities. That's not marriage, that's basically adopting an adult-aged child.
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Sweetleaf
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Whether you help her out or not is your decision, but how much and how long will that last? I see that you have certain savings. Do you think she has an expectation that you will use your funds indefinitely to help out her family members?
If you do help her out, I think she needs to compromise by living more frugally. I found that it helps couples to sit down and make a monthly budget and stick to it. Itemize income vs. monthly necessary expenses such as rent, food, utilities, gasoline etc. This may be obvious but many couples don't do it and greatly underestimate how much they spend each month. The upside is that after necessities are covered, money can be put aside for fun things such as eating out or vacations. I also think it's reasonable that any assistance to her father must fit into the budget and be capped.
I appreciate this may not be easy if she doesn't want to be up front about her spending. Perhaps you can approach this in a non-confrontational way and turn budgeting into a positive for your relationship. You are not being stingy or heartless to want a rational way to handle finances.
This is true if you're going to be a couple that means you sort of have to work out your budget together...me and my boyfriend do that, we don't share a bank account or anything so we both have our own income. But we cant just spend and spend without considering our expenses for living together and working out how much we need to spend on necessities and what we have left over for more recreational spending and then neither of us can exceed the recreational spending we calculate. For instance it wouldn't be fair if I insisted he take me out to eat all the time and spend money on a bunch of extras like that and then complain about not having enough money and expect him to then also help with all the necessities. Basically I can't spend all my money and expect him to compensate me, just like he can't do that with me....otherwise we'd both just be broke and unable to afford rent or going out at all.
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We won't go back.
Whether you help her out or not is your decision, but how much and how long will that last? I see that you have certain savings. Do you think she has an expectation that you will use your funds indefinitely to help out her family members?
If you do help her out, I think she needs to compromise by living more frugally. I found that it helps couples to sit down and make a monthly budget and stick to it. Itemize income vs. monthly necessary expenses such as rent, food, utilities, gasoline etc. This may be obvious but many couples don't do it and greatly underestimate how much they spend each month. The upside is that after necessities are covered, money can be put aside for fun things such as eating out or vacations. I also think it's reasonable that any assistance to her father must fit into the budget and be capped.
I appreciate this may not be easy if she doesn't want to be up front about her spending. Perhaps you can approach this in a non-confrontational way and turn budgeting into a positive for your relationship. You are not being stingy or heartless to want a rational way to handle finances.
This is true if you're going to be a couple that means you sort of have to work out your budget together...me and my boyfriend do that, we don't share a bank account or anything so we both have our own income. But we cant just spend and spend without considering our expenses for living together and working out how much we need to spend on necessities and what we have left over for more recreational spending and then neither of us can exceed the recreational spending we calculate. For instance it wouldn't be fair if I insisted he take me out to eat all the time and spend money on a bunch of extras like that and then complain about not having enough money and expect him to then also help with all the necessities. Basically I can't spend all my money and expect him to compensate me, just like he can't do that with me....otherwise we'd both just be broke and unable to afford rent or going out at all.
Exactly--this is the kind of arrangement you want to have if you want an equal partnership that you both contribute to and share responsibilities in. This is how adults do co-habitating/marriage.
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"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
"but if you're not willing to go into debt to spoil me, you don't love me " -- watch out for that kind of talk. or "this is what all other boyfriends do for their girlfriends. you're just talking to me about that boring money stuff because you don't love me enough". or "you wouldn't ask me about this if you really trusted me, you'd just give me the money". and so on
Well tonight when I came home she was waiting there for me in her car. She was crying and said that she would never sell the ring, and that it means a lot her. She could never do it she says. She says the reason why she has been behaving this way, is cause she feel so bad about having lost so much money, and feels such a shame of herself, that she has been treating me this way, and saying this like she wanted to sell the ring in order to push me away, cause she felt a shamed, like she wasn't good enough for me.
But she says that she is not this kind of person and she would never sell the ring, cause she loves me too much, and i mean everything to her.
She also says I do not have to pay any bills and she is sorry for making me think i have, to but i don't. she said that in order to prove to me, how much i mean to her, she is going to pay me back the money for the dentist before, cause she feel guilty and that i deserve much better.
What do you think of this now? This is a total change, and she was crying completely. And I didn't even have a chance much to talk to her today, so I never brought up anything about breaking up or anything, so what's with this total change?
I want to add something, I'm all about trying to be positive and accepting a person's apology, but just reading everything you have gone through with her has worn me out. A person's actions speak louder than words for me. You are going to have a hard time figuring out what to do because there are too many feelings involved. That's why I say you will have to give it time and watch her actions because that will be the deciding factor. I sure wouldn't rush into anything either - she's given you plenty of reasons not to. I would have been gone by now, but you are choosing to stay, so try and use your head and not your heart in this matter and watch her actions. So far, all I've seen is a good actress.
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But she says that she is not this kind of person and she would never sell the ring, cause she loves me too much, and i mean everything to her.
She also says I do not have to pay any bills and she is sorry for making me think i have, to but i don't. she said that in order to prove to me, how much i mean to her, she is going to pay me back the money for the dentist before, cause she feel guilty and that i deserve much better.
What do you think of this now? This is a total change, and she was crying completely. And I didn't even have a chance much to talk to her today, so I never brought up anything about breaking up or anything, so what's with this total change?
(insert sound of fishing line being quickly reeled-in)
I hope this is not one of those situations where this person does stuff, then feels bad about what she's done, then does stuff again.
This happens all the time with abusers (not saying that she's an abuser). They abuse, then they feel bad about it and apologize, then they continue to abuse, then they apologize again.
I sense a pattern developing....
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It's just eating out can get quite expensive, especially with some of the restaurants people are choosing. Do I have the right not to come in order to save money, if I have been doing it too much, or is it my responsibility to come to her friend's and family's dinner invitations and pay for both of us, to be a good boyfriend? She says if I don't go to this one, that her family will possibly get a bad impression of me.
Well I suggested that for our anniversary, I cook her dinner myself. That way we will not have to eat out. She said that she thinks for an anniversary we should go out, for such an occasion. I named some places to go to dance after we have dinner. She said she didn't want to go dancing and wanted to go out to an actual place for dinner, and not just dance later on only.
She says it's okay for me not to want to eat out and spend as money. She is fine for me saving up money she says. But she says once in a while such as this one, you should spend some money to showy you love your gf, such as this type of occasion. She says she is supportive of me wanting to save money, but an anniversary is the wrong time to do it.
She says that my surprise of making her dinner is not romantic. She says that since we would be doing it at her place, since she lives alone, she would have to do most of the work cause she knows where everything is and what not. She also said it's not romantic, cause I am doing it to save money, and not out of romance. She said it's not romantic when your girlfriend is only worth 15 dollars in groceries, compared to her friends, who's boyfriends have no problems taking them out cause they consider them worth it.
Me and my girlfriend went to the movies. I felt like perhaps I have been paying for her too much lately, and feel I need to not spend as much money, and perhaps she could contribute some, with all due respect of course .
So I asked her if we could go dutch this time. She said sure no problem, and bought her own ticket. Later when the movie ended, she said she hated it and was a complete of waist of her money, which she could have used for better things, as she put it.
My best friend, about an hour later, texted us, saying he was going to a late showing of a movie, and wanted to know if we could come. I said I just came from a movie and wasn't felling like another one, but she wanted to go anyway, and asked if she could go with him, if he picked her up. I said I guess so, sure.
She told him though, that she could not afford it, now that she thinks about it, and he offered to pay, so she was fine with going then. I wonder if she was implying that I was cheap, just maybe, or perhaps I am reading it wrong, and it's no big deal. It just seemed strange.
However, we came close to getting married and talked about it a lot. Things have been going really well, accept for this one section of our relationship, but for the last few months it's been going good and she said it was just a phase cause of some other personal problems we have been having. But she hasn't had any problems lately, but.. maybe... just maybe.. she is keeping cool because we kept talking about getting married by the end of this year, but her behavior earlier this year, scared me to be honest.
What do you think? I am I been too cheap or money cautious? She does get me a lot of stuff, but I tell her not too, and that she spends too much on me sometimes and it's not neceessary. But the gestures are sweet. What do you think?
I did have a talk with her though, and so far these problems have not come up again for quite a few months. She asked me to help pay for her dentist bills since she couldn't afford it, and I helped her out. But she then wanted me to pay for some other bills but I kind of said no, and put my foot down, saying that I will help with some things once in a while, but not everything she needs.
Now she says she needs help and has been borrowing money from her ex-boyfriend to help pay off her debts.
Basically her and her ex, had a business when they were together, she left him, and now lost a lot of money in the business cause she chose to leave, and she is in debt now. I am not lawyer or business expert, so I am not sure how that all works. But she is in debt now, and has been borrowing money from the same ex to pay her bills now, and she asked me if it's okay with me, if she sells the promise ring I gave her to get more money cause she needs it, since I won't help.
What do you think?
My apologies for not reading the entire thread. I'll check it out later. I just wanted to say...
...run for your life!! ! Get out NOW. Do NOT marry her--trust me, marriage doesn't change people.
First of all, I haven't had much faith in LTR's for a long time, and posts like this are exactly why. The way you navigate a LTR all the way to marriage is you get to know someone as a friend first, spend MUCH time together so you know what she's like when she doesn't think anyone is watching. If she's that awesome and agreeable, go for the whole exclusive bf/gf routine. You will KNOW if she's marriage material within 6 months. Propose, and during that time get your affairs in order as if you're gonna be dead in a year. Both of you lay everything out on the table--all your baggage from past relationships, skeletons in closets, how you REALLY feel about the prospective in-laws, debts, what REALLY happened that weekend in Vegas... Come to terms with that, work out every forseeable and hypothetical situation that would challenge your partnership, your dealbreakers, etc. THEN get married, but only after you work out those issues. Don't rest until you are completely satisfied and in full agreement. Don't agree to disagree either, or it will be short-lived.
I agree with your girl on some of her ideas of romance and how money fits into the equation on a fundamental level. However, I think maybe the importance of spending money is overblown in her mind. That's a huge red flag for me. Comparing your relationship to those of your friends is another huge red flag. Your relationship is unique, so that's unfair. Your marriage/family will turn into a stressful keeping up with the Joneses routine. Don't do it.
Now, as to going out/eating or cooking at home being an indication of value of your partner... Going out to eat is never about the good food. It's about service. You're paying for convenience, the skill of the kitchen staff, presentstion, and only a tiny bit for actual ingredients. When you spend $49-$50 for a restaurant meal, you're just paying for someone else to make it. You make up for this at home because you have to invest the time and effort. I bake bread and my own pizza dough from scratch. Rolls alone take a combined 8 hours, and pizza roughly 5 hours total. So that's 13-21 hours a week, whereas I could pay for frozen pizza and sliced bread. For what I'd spend on two frozen pizzas and a loaf of bread, I could buy enough flour and other ingredients to feed my family of 5 for 6 months.
Your problem is your gf places an extremely low value on your time and effort. Why is that? You can do better. So do better.
She's stuck on paying back debts to ex-bfs? Disgusting. Debts make debtors slaves to those they owe money to. Your gf isn't completely free of her exes. If you want to be a real man, pay them off and tell her it's over and she owes you nothing. Before you go there, make sure she's not addicted to debt, which I suspect she is.
This reeks to high heaven, in my opinion. I say drop off the key, Lee.
AngelRho
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Wow this is not only wrong, but also very sexist.
No at all. Ideally a marriage would have both partners holding everything in common. There's no "yours" or "mine," only "ours." That includes liabilities. If you have the means to buy your financial freedom and stop being a slave, and that includes the freedom of your spouse as well, then by all means you should do it.
I thought two people taking care of each other was a good thing.
To be honest, though, I see the gf in this specific situation as being someone who enjoys paying bills and maintaining attachments to old flames. When you're dating, no man or woman should have to put up with that. You shouldn't have to change for anyone, nor should you expect anyone to change for you. This person doesn't seem like the kind of person who is ready for a mature, lifelong commitment. People like that are miserable and won't be satisfied before dragging other people down with them. Hop on the bus, Gus.
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