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sly279
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29 Sep 2017, 5:15 pm

Anngables wrote:
Wow. . . .thanks lots of replies whilst I slept. . .. . Aspiesingledad . . .. I am going to think over your post and give it the attention it deserves later if that is ok. I want to think and explore my feelings and reactions and how I would respond as an NT in your position.

Sly the reciprocation thing is interesting . . . And no if you are expecting exactly the same back in return and only doing it in expectation of a return gift then it is not a nice time. However us NTs often use gifts, messages, little notes, flowers as a medium for expressing how much we care for someone. Being prepared to put yourself to inconvenience to pop and see a friend who is sad or to support them at an event is all part of the rich tapestry of our social interactions.

I would never go to someone's events and think "right now they will be coming to my event" it doesn't work like that. HOWEVER if after a long time you never get anything similar in return, you begin to feel that the person is just taking advantage of your good nature.
Does any of that make sense . .. .


I use to bring flowers to first dates.
I like making others happy I tried to give gifts to one girl I liked she wouldn't let me I still have them years later. I do a lot of things to make people happy. I get things for friends on our online game. I understand that stuff. Other aspies aren't that way, some are content without any human contact and just doing their hobbies the whole aspie toy train generalization. Most seem to fall somewhere between. He might not be into giving gifts and such. If I had a gf I'd be spoiling her with what little money I have.
Though I'd never skip work to see her, I'd get fired and it's not responsible or moral.



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29 Sep 2017, 5:18 pm

[quote="wanderlust77"]Your thread is interesting for me but let me translate you how I read, how I understood what you wrote here. Sorry, if it's harsh, I don't know how to communicate politely nor see the point to beat aroudn the bush.

" Exciting for me, and many of my friends were really pleased and excited for me. In fact so excited that 3 of them took time off work or out of their day to come to the art house to see the art piece in its new place and we had coffee, took photos and chatted"
Sounds like - 3 friends of mine came to see my art why he couldn't be bothered even if I didn't ask him.

"Oh and just remembered when he had his first exhibition this summer I turned up with a bottle of whisky and a card to congratulate him " - I was there for him, it's his turn now.

"I don't think we have different expectations. I have asked him clearly if he wants our friendship as it is" - we do have different expectations.

This was in answer to someone asking if I wanted a romantic relationship and he did not

"From an NT perspective it's strange not to want to share in a close friends happiness and experience" - why did he not come and share my happiness?

I didn't expect him to come. He was busy. To me it is just strange he didn't acknowledge the event at all



"This is the reciprocation thing. Of you have a friend you can call on to do nice things for you sometimes it would be good to do nice things in return" - I don't do friends who don't reciprocate.
I don't think it's is possible to have a friendship with zero reciprocation? The nature of friendship is that it is a 2 way thing. I am willing to do 98% of the work but I need some sign that I am valued and appreciated

"I'm more upset as the day goes on because I understand he was busy etc etc. . .. .but he is on Facebook now commenting on different posts .. . . But nothing to me. I think he probably takes me for granted." - I didn't ask him to come, I didn't tell him how he made me feel, I made it out like not a big deal and now I'm posting on forums as I am upset about it.
I was posting on forums as a way of increasing understanding of the way an NT feels and responds

"I either accept this is just how it is. . .. or I walk away" - Walk away, I am not getting what I want so I might just walk away.
haven't walked away . . .this was in response to people suggesting I could change my friend

"He's a good guy .. . .. . Maybe he just doesn't care enough about our friendship to keep the sustained effort going. . .. . .for me it's not an effort it's just normal and what I do all the time with my good friends."- I am not getting what I want.
No I am not but I haven't walked away. Am I not entitled to have wants and needs?

"And no if you are expecting exactly the same back in return and only doing it in expectation of a return gift then it is not a nice time. However us NTs often use gifts, messages, little notes, flowers as a medium for expressing how much we care for someone. Being prepared to put yourself to inconvenience to pop and see a friend who is sad or to support them at an event is all part of the rich tapestry of our social interactions."- I am not getting what I want.

See above



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29 Sep 2017, 5:24 pm

AquaineBoy . . .it does feel like that . . .. I sometimes thinks he is embarrassed by his own emotions about caring for me which means he avoids it sometimes.

When i first met him he used to interact constantly . .. . .i really believe now that he does care deeply for me and that trips him up, and he doesn't know how to deal with those feelings .. . .. . .

Is that a possibility ???



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29 Sep 2017, 5:45 pm

Anngables wrote:
AquaineBoy . . .it does feel like that . . .. I sometimes thinks he is embarrassed by his own emotions about caring for me which means he avoids it sometimes.

When i first met him he used to interact constantly . .. . .i really believe now that he does care deeply for me and that trips him up, and he doesn't know how to deal with those feelings .. . .. . .

Is that a possibility ???


I believe it is because I did exactly that to my mother! I wouldn't say embarrassed or ashamed or anything, more like afraid of the emotions and how they will affect you and possibly having a hard time processing everything without getting overloaded.

The way you typed my username, it reminded me of Pegasus from Yu-gi-oh. :lol: it was funny thinking how he would have said it.(Pegasus is my favorite character.)


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29 Sep 2017, 5:49 pm

AquaineBay wrote:
Anngables wrote:
Magz . . .. . I have told my friend in the past and more recently . . .. he really tried but then it sort of slips away. Like now I have nt heard from him since Monday. To me it's strange I can see him on Facebook commenting and chatting with friends of mine but to me nothing. . .. . .but it's just the way he is I guess.

Singleaspiedad . .

I have been thinking about you a lot today and your situation and concerns about your late wife's family.

I believe they genuinely care for you. If somebody came into my life who loved one of my siblings and together made a beautiful child. Who proved his love for these people I care for, and was unselfish enough to let me be part of the life of the beautiful child. .. . I would genuinely love you. If after my sibling died you were willing to keep me involved in your life and that of the child I would feel very humble and grateful.

I think it is possible your wife's family don't always understand you and probably they worry about you. Especially as your autism probably means you don't express or share your emotions in a way they can readily understand . . .. but I would be certain they genuinely care for you . . .the counselling course will be their way of trying to show how important you are to them and to how much they care about your wellbeing.

If they would have felt this way about you if you hadn't married their sister/daughter or produced your son is an irrelevant question really. You did, and the way you have lived your life and responded to circumstances has made them become genuinely fond of them. People come into our lives through different routes. People we may not have otherwise interacted with. How we meet does not define the strength of emotion.

Do they think you are ungrateful. That depends on their level of true understanding of the way you function. If they fully understand you they won't think that. However they seem to be making huge efforts to keep you in Their lives and that is I believe due to a genuine care and fondness for you


I hope this makes some sense and helps a littler


Maybe he doesn't talk to you because you are a very close friend.(Weird right?) I have a close relationship with my mother and my other family members are not as close with me. I can do things with other family members because I don't feel as strongly about screwing up or about my emotions.

When I talk to my mother it matters way more, how she reacts, the things she say, her problems and accomplishments. I get way more anxiety talking to my mother than I do to anyone else. My emotions are also much higher when I speak to her which causes me to pull away because I have a hard time dealing with the stimuli.

He may be talking to your friends more because their thoughts and opinions don't matter as much as yours do.

*edit* The stimuli is also the reason I can hug or kiss another person and have a very hard time doing the same for my mother.


Tell her that. She may just think you don't want to spend much time with her than other people. That's what I would think.


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AquaineBay
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29 Sep 2017, 6:04 pm

nurseangela wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Anngables wrote:
Magz . . .. . I have told my friend in the past and more recently . . .. he really tried but then it sort of slips away. Like now I have nt heard from him since Monday. To me it's strange I can see him on Facebook commenting and chatting with friends of mine but to me nothing. . .. . .but it's just the way he is I guess.

Singleaspiedad . .

I have been thinking about you a lot today and your situation and concerns about your late wife's family.

I believe they genuinely care for you. If somebody came into my life who loved one of my siblings and together made a beautiful child. Who proved his love for these people I care for, and was unselfish enough to let me be part of the life of the beautiful child. .. . I would genuinely love you. If after my sibling died you were willing to keep me involved in your life and that of the child I would feel very humble and grateful.

I think it is possible your wife's family don't always understand you and probably they worry about you. Especially as your autism probably means you don't express or share your emotions in a way they can readily understand . . .. but I would be certain they genuinely care for you . . .the counselling course will be their way of trying to show how important you are to them and to how much they care about your wellbeing.

If they would have felt this way about you if you hadn't married their sister/daughter or produced your son is an irrelevant question really. You did, and the way you have lived your life and responded to circumstances has made them become genuinely fond of them. People come into our lives through different routes. People we may not have otherwise interacted with. How we meet does not define the strength of emotion.

Do they think you are ungrateful. That depends on their level of true understanding of the way you function. If they fully understand you they won't think that. However they seem to be making huge efforts to keep you in Their lives and that is I believe due to a genuine care and fondness for you


I hope this makes some sense and helps a littler


Maybe he doesn't talk to you because you are a very close friend.(Weird right?) I have a close relationship with my mother and my other family members are not as close with me. I can do things with other family members because I don't feel as strongly about screwing up or about my emotions.

When I talk to my mother it matters way more, how she reacts, the things she say, her problems and accomplishments. I get way more anxiety talking to my mother than I do to anyone else. My emotions are also much higher when I speak to her which causes me to pull away because I have a hard time dealing with the stimuli.

He may be talking to your friends more because their thoughts and opinions don't matter as much as yours do.

*edit* The stimuli is also the reason I can hug or kiss another person and have a very hard time doing the same for my mother.


Tell her that. She may just think you don't want to spend much time with her than other people. That's what I would think.


I know, I really should. About a year are two back she was sad that I hug and kiss other people and not her. I guess it would be easier now that I was finally able to put it in words that make sense, other times I would just say "you know I don't like that" or "I do it because others expect me to, you don't."


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nurseangela
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29 Sep 2017, 6:16 pm

AquaineBay wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Anngables wrote:
Magz . . .. . I have told my friend in the past and more recently . . .. he really tried but then it sort of slips away. Like now I have nt heard from him since Monday. To me it's strange I can see him on Facebook commenting and chatting with friends of mine but to me nothing. . .. . .but it's just the way he is I guess.

Singleaspiedad . .

I have been thinking about you a lot today and your situation and concerns about your late wife's family.

I believe they genuinely care for you. If somebody came into my life who loved one of my siblings and together made a beautiful child. Who proved his love for these people I care for, and was unselfish enough to let me be part of the life of the beautiful child. .. . I would genuinely love you. If after my sibling died you were willing to keep me involved in your life and that of the child I would feel very humble and grateful.

I think it is possible your wife's family don't always understand you and probably they worry about you. Especially as your autism probably means you don't express or share your emotions in a way they can readily understand . . .. but I would be certain they genuinely care for you . . .the counselling course will be their way of trying to show how important you are to them and to how much they care about your wellbeing.

If they would have felt this way about you if you hadn't married their sister/daughter or produced your son is an irrelevant question really. You did, and the way you have lived your life and responded to circumstances has made them become genuinely fond of them. People come into our lives through different routes. People we may not have otherwise interacted with. How we meet does not define the strength of emotion.

Do they think you are ungrateful. That depends on their level of true understanding of the way you function. If they fully understand you they won't think that. However they seem to be making huge efforts to keep you in Their lives and that is I believe due to a genuine care and fondness for you


I hope this makes some sense and helps a littler


Maybe he doesn't talk to you because you are a very close friend.(Weird right?) I have a close relationship with my mother and my other family members are not as close with me. I can do things with other family members because I don't feel as strongly about screwing up or about my emotions.

When I talk to my mother it matters way more, how she reacts, the things she say, her problems and accomplishments. I get way more anxiety talking to my mother than I do to anyone else. My emotions are also much higher when I speak to her which causes me to pull away because I have a hard time dealing with the stimuli.

He may be talking to your friends more because their thoughts and opinions don't matter as much as yours do.

*edit* The stimuli is also the reason I can hug or kiss another person and have a very hard time doing the same for my mother.


Tell her that. She may just think you don't want to spend much time with her than other people. That's what I would think.


I know, I really should. About a year are two back she was sad that I hug and kiss other people and not her. I guess it would be easier now that I was finally able to put it in words that make sense, other times I would just say "you know I don't like that" or "I do it because others expect me to, you don't."


Even if you have to write it in a letter to her, I can't tell you how happy that would make me if I was your Ma. Writing it may be easier for you.


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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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29 Sep 2017, 6:22 pm

Chichikov wrote:
wanderlust77 wrote:
It seems the third way this could go is already forgotten.
Why is the NT way the default by the way?
Why the AS should try to fulfil NT's needs and abandoning their true self?


The NT way is the default way because they are normal, it's an NT world, we're abnormal so if we want to fit in with that world it means doing seemingly abnormal things.

wanderlust77 wrote:
To reverse your logic ASs should just do things that are absolutely illogical, ignore their own needs and bend to the will of the person with NT even though it's not a satisfying relationship for them , might cause anxiety and just put up with it. In other words....it's all about the person with NT, it's all about what they want and need from a friendship and the AS should just put up with it and force themselves to be who they are not.
Otherwise they deemed not to be fit in society.


No-one *has* to do anything, AS people don't *have* to fulfil NT's needs, but if they don't then they have to accept that they'll never have relationships, they'll always lose the friends they have. So it's a choice, do it and try to "fit in" or don't do it and be alone. However if you choose the latter then take it on your own head, don't make thread and thread after thread after thread on here whining about how no-one wants you and you can't get a girlfriend.

Yeah it might be hard, it might cause anxiety and so on....but you have a disability. Overcoming disabilities takes hardships and effort I'm afraid. None of us asked for this, but we have it, so it's a case of put up or shut up.


If it's a true friendship or relationship, both have to change some for it to work. AS and NT are opposites.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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29 Sep 2017, 7:17 pm

Anngables wrote:
I don't because over the past 2yrs I have tried many many times . .. . .it always works for a few weeks then he seems to forget again. It also always causes an argument or he seems sad like he had no intention to ever hurt me.

It doesn't seem worth it. I don't want an argument and I don't want him to feel sad.

I either accept this is just how it is. . .. or I walk away


I don't think you will ever be able to accept it. For us, it hurts too much. Like someone doesn't care. I always thought why can't a post-it note work? But like someone else here said - they wouldn't be interested in sitting through something they are not interested in. They don't get that we just want them there for support and to show they are proud of us and interested in what we are doing in life. My Pa never went to my nursing graduation or anything for that matter. I could swear he was probably Aspie.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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29 Sep 2017, 7:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
He probably cares.....I bet he'd visit you in the hospital if something really major happened.

I sense that he just forgets "what he has to do" in relationships.

Like I sometimes forget to thank my mother a few days after she gave me a gift. She gets upset at that---even though I thanked her at the moment she gave the gift to me.


My other Aspie guy friend has said he would never step foot in a hospital because of the germs.


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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
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29 Sep 2017, 8:28 pm

@anngables

I've had my work shown in public.
I didn't, couldn't attend the event.
Actually, the thought of people looking at my work was intensely sickening, so I made myself quite unwell.
Afterwards, I received lots of texts, cards and verbal praise.
I wanted the Earth to open up and swallow me.
Couldn't handle the attention, even though it was positive.
I wonder if your friend thought that's how it would be for you?
Like, I would prefer no one said anything to me.


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29 Sep 2017, 10:15 pm

Anngables wrote:
Singleaspiedad . .

I have been thinking about you a lot today and your situation and concerns about your late wife's family.

I believe they genuinely care for you. If somebody came into my life who loved one of my siblings and together made a beautiful child. Who proved his love for these people I care for, and was unselfish enough to let me be part of the life of the beautiful child. .. . I would genuinely love you. If after my sibling died you were willing to keep me involved in your life and that of the child I would feel very humble and grateful.

I think it is possible your wife's family don't always understand you and probably they worry about you. Especially as your autism probably means you don't express or share your emotions in a way they can readily understand . . .. but I would be certain they genuinely care for you . . .the counselling course will be their way of trying to show how important you are to them and to how much they care about your wellbeing.

If they would have felt this way about you if you hadn't married their sister/daughter or produced your son is an irrelevant question really. You did, and the way you have lived your life and responded to circumstances has made them become genuinely fond of them. People come into our lives through different routes. People we may not have otherwise interacted with. How we meet does not define the strength of emotion.

Do they think you are ungrateful. That depends on their level of true understanding of the way you function. If they fully understand you they won't think that. However they seem to be making huge efforts to keep you in Their lives and that is I believe due to a genuine care and fondness for you


I hope this makes some sense and helps a littler


I think you really put things into perspective for me. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm overreacting, but your post brought tears to my eyes. What you are saying makes so much sense and yet in almost 5 years I never came close to thinking of it that way. I think you're absolutely right.

You know, I never asked anybody about that concern, I just never had the opportunity and besides, I was somewhat afraid. For some reason you seemed like the right person. Thank you!



sly279
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30 Sep 2017, 2:52 am

nurseangela wrote:
Anngables wrote:
I don't because over the past 2yrs I have tried many many times . .. . .it always works for a few weeks then he seems to forget again. It also always causes an argument or he seems sad like he had no intention to ever hurt me.

It doesn't seem worth it. I don't want an argument and I don't want him to feel sad.

I either accept this is just how it is. . .. or I walk away


I don't think you will ever be able to accept it. For us, it hurts too much. Like someone doesn't care. I always thought why can't a post-it note work? But like someone else here said - they wouldn't be interested in sitting through something they are not interested in. They don't get that we just want them there for support and to show they are proud of us and interested in what we are doing in life. My Pa never went to my nursing graduation or anything for that matter. I could swear he was probably Aspie.


They? I certainly do stuff I hate and find boring for people I like or know. But they asked me to go or said they want me there. I hate parties, even family holidays. I feel so odd and unwanted at them. Parties and social gatherings are hard for people with social disorder, who figured. I still go :roll: I understand they want me there so I mostly put up with it. Though I don’t feel welcomed nor do I get why they want me there. Guess having me alone in the corner makes them feel better? My friend had me go to his house while him and his friends got drunk. I got sexual harassed yay :roll: I don’t drink, I don’t enjoy being around drunk people. Oh and I got to drive them home. I don’t like hospitals either. I went when ,mom, bother or grandma were in. I even visited my high school friend while he was in the hospital. Had to take two buses and then walk to it each time.

Relationship would be different though. If I had a gf and she had a ward ceremony or art display etc. I’d go without being asked if I could r explain he why. I’d also text her a bunch normally anyways but I’d text asking how it was, or maybe I’d be ok in relationship calling . I went to a coworkers art exhibit. Hardly knew them. They told us it was happening, so I went to show support after work(it was on campus) I don’t get most art. His was a painting. There was a cool wood sculpture though. They had crackers and club soda(weird snack combo, would rather had water, rude not to take thought right?) told him I went and saw it, suppose I could have just lied and said I did.



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30 Sep 2017, 2:53 am

Raleigh wrote:
@anngables

I've had my work shown in public.
I didn't, couldn't attend the event.
Actually, the thought of people looking at my work was intensely sickening, so I made myself quite unwell.
Afterwards, I received lots of texts, cards and verbal praise.
I wanted the Earth to open up and swallow me.
Couldn't handle the attention, even though it was positive.
I wonder if your friend thought that's how it would be for you?
Like, I would prefer no one said anything to me.

Is this an aspie thing? I don’t like too much positive praise, though I don’t feel it’s truthful or I deserve it, it confuses me, I get anxious.



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30 Sep 2017, 3:09 am

SingleAspieDad . . .. I am so pleased to be able to help a little. I did think long and hard about the situation and really considered how I would feel if I were your wife's sibling or parent. Xx



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30 Sep 2017, 3:21 am

Thanks for all the replies . .. . .. and I hope this discussion has helped a little in understanding each other from different perspectives.

What I have learnt
You guys often see things as a problem needing to be solved . . .. you can see I am a little unhappy about something and therefore come up with solutions. . . .there is no real solution this is just a side effect of having a close friendship with an Aspie man. I take the rough with the smooth. I just wanted to explain how I feel sometimes

Sometimes you take things as criticism which are not meant that way . . .. I find this with my friend too. I'm not sure if it's because of how much crap and bullying you have experienced in life . . .or a part of your difficult understanding other people's intent and emotions. . . . .Again I don't intend this as criticism but knowing this changes the way I interact with my friend. If I want to discuss an issue I always reassure him that I am not being critical, and reminding him how much I genuinely think he is a good person.

We are all different. Look at the answers and replies to how people react and feel about this situation. We all need to remember that no group of people should be lumped together. . .. . .but discussing helps to,broaden our view and see many different ideas . . . .