Do women like or dislike effeminate men?

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I dont know.i annoy most women for dates who expect me to decide everything about dates, I imagine it’d be super annoying in a relationship

I'm kind of effeminate. Women tend to assume I'm gay & then were kind of shocked & weireded out when I make a move on a woman. I've been hit on by more than a few gay guys too who have a very hard time taking No for an answer. I'm kind of submissive but also prefer my partner to be. I'm very protective & good at being emotionally supportive within a realtionship & maybe partly because of this, I'd rather be in charge within a relationship than have my partner be in charge.

I don't know what you mean about being submissive, I'm not into it as this sexual kinky thing... but thinking about what you said to kraftiekortie I would definitely prefer someone who doesn't decide everything about dates than someone that does. I don't like when a guy acts like he is the one in charge of everything because I have my own rhythm and desires and we are equal, I should be heard too. I also don't like this attitude when guys do things trying to impress, like I'm some sort of thing to be conquered.

How do you know how most women in your area think? Do they told you that in real life? Or aren't you just using your negative feelings to confirm a negative bias? I'm not disputing that a huge number of woman may prefer partners who fit this traditional idea of masculinity, but... there are ones who don't and if you are too busy being sorry for be who you are you won't find the ones who appreciate who you are.

Guys doing 'guy things' has nothing to do with this anyway. I like assertive women, perhaps too much but whatever, I don't see how that changes me biologically. Labels don't really go down to the bone. A guy here called me effeminate, not to say much of his own masculinity.

I work in a colossal engineering firm, love extreme sports and fast cars; also viking hair. If people give you s**t because they can't understand anything more than black & white gender thinking, they're also severely limiting their own intellectual capacity. Maybe they're waiting on the pope for an explanation.

People who go on about how having this job or that car, doing this sport or that woman and how that makes someone a "real man™" have some seriously warped (and pretty childish) views about what masculinity actually means. One of these days, I'll probably make a long and ranty post about my views on the subject, but right now I'm too far into this bottle of scotch to bother.

I'll just ask this; do you think it'd be more or less manly to disregard their shit-talking and do your own thing, or to be brought low by the disapproval of idiots?

I think anything we do counts as masculine because we obviously are.

Some people reduce it to muscles & feigned stupidity.

Being submissive isn't so bad. On dating sites I've seen lots of profiles of women saying they were looking for a submissive man.

In our society taller typically means dominant. Maybe you should try dating taller girls?

There may be a subculture of effeminacy in men in Japan - and probably every other country too - but I don't believe any sizeable portion of the female population is attracted to this sort of thing there or anywhere else. It's simply hardwired into the female brain to be attracted to men who can compensate for their relative physical weakness. There will be a few exceptions though, as with anything. It makes sense, for instance, in terms of sexual selection, that tall, physically strong women should typically prefer smaller, weaker men; the alternative would be a splitting of the race into one group of weedy pygmies and another of enormous troglodytes.

Personally, I don't believe in anything like a dominant/submissive dichotomy - at least not among well brought up people. That said, I think it's important for the man to be the breadwinner in the marriage.

Gender roles bore me to tears.

I have no problem with what Prometheus just said except for the indisputable fact that it's been endangering the world for centuries. Sure, we can keep doing the same things, that seems like a great idea. Gender relations doesn't have to consist of power grabs, even though it so often does.

I don't know what you mean by the word 'endager' here; not saying I disagree, but that I genuinely don't understand.

I advocate something closer to the traditional gender roles because they worked. There's no reason to change something purely because one can. Gender roles were never oppressive of women any more than of men, because at no time in recent history have they ever carried the weight of law in the western world. They were merely a product of custom. Women were legally permitted to become doctors in the nineteenth century and some did; most chose the life of the housewife however because that's what they WANTED.

By comparison, the system of the present day DOESN'T work, because it's a miracle if a marriage - provided it takes place at all - lasts more than three years, with devastating consequences for the children involved and, therefore, for the whole of the next generation.

I can't think of any RATIONAL argument for the modern attitude towards these matters. The modern philosophy of 'free love' has failed in every respect.

All I'm saying is that lots of traditionalism implies inequality.

We also don't really have any kind of system now, presumptions about gender identity fail us just as often now as they did in 1950 or 1850.

A lot of women want men to be taller then them.
Even if they didn’t im 6’4 I’ve only seen one woman taller then me.
6’5”+ women are very very rare.

Also the dominant women I’ve seen online like being dominant over men who are bigger and stronger then them. Says it makes them feel impowered

Must be a Australian thing, most women here say they want a dominant real man.

Even if I was the bread winner I’d still want my gf in charge

You should find a West Indian woman, then.

They tend to love to be in charge.