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juliekitty
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05 Aug 2007, 11:51 pm

calandale wrote:
I'd like to ask why?


Because aggressive aggressors don't take any effort whatsoever to spot.



calandale
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05 Aug 2007, 11:55 pm

juliekitty wrote:
calandale wrote:
I'd like to ask why?


Because aggressive aggressors don't take any effort whatsoever to spot.


No, I was wondering what is so terrible about us.



sinsboldly
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06 Aug 2007, 12:00 am

calandale wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
nb411 wrote:
lol @ the hate.


actually it is self defense, not hate.
identifying passive agressors is a survival technique for women.


As someone with many passive aggressive traits,
I'd like to ask why? Oh, I know that they cause me
tons of trouble, but I'm curious of takes from the
receiving side. Indeed, 'twas my understanding that
this was more often an accusation against women.


Merely being passive-aggressive isn't a disorder but a behavior — sometimes a perfectly rational behavior, which lets you dodge unpleasant chores while avoiding confrontation. It's only pathological if it's a habitual, crippling response reflecting a pervasively pessimistic attitude.

When the behaviors are part of a person's disorder or personality style, repercussions are usually not immediate, but instead accumulate over time as the individuals affected by the person come to recognize the disavowed aggression coming from that person. People with this personality style are often quite unconscious of their impact on others, and thus may be genuinely dismayed when held to account for the inconvenience or discomfort caused by their passive-aggressive behaviors. In that context, there is a failure to see how they might have provoked a negative response, so they feel misunderstood, held to unreasonable standards, and/or put upon.

Treatment of this disorder can be difficult: efforts to convince the patient that their unconscious feelings are being expressed passively, and that those feelings inspire other people's anger or disappointment with the patient, are often met with resistance. Individuals with the disorder will frequently leave treatment claiming that it did no good. Since the effectiveness of various therapies have yet to be proven, these individuals may be correct.

In the psychoanalytic theory of transactional analysis, many types of passive-aggressive behavior are interpreted as "games" with a hidden psychological payoff, and are classified with names like "See What You Made Me Do" and "Look How Hard I've Tried" into stereotypical scenarios. Similarly, other types of passive-aggressive behaviors can be described by names like "You Forgot To Do That On Purpose, Didn't You" or "I Don't Want To Be Treated Like This; Do You?"

Passive aggressive disorder is said to stem from a specific childhood stimulus (e.g. overbearing parental figures, or alcohol/drug addicted parents).



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06 Aug 2007, 12:05 am

Thanks. I was aware of some of the literature
on it, but really wanted to understand WHY one
would be so disturbed if I went and sulked for
a while. My wife dealt with it ok. Indeed, I have
always been pretty honest about it - but can't
much control it. I don't even mind being ribbed
about it, and couldn't (and really still don't)
see where it causes all that much harm.



sinsboldly
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06 Aug 2007, 12:05 am

calandale wrote:
juliekitty wrote:
calandale wrote:
I'd like to ask why?


Because aggressive aggressors don't take any effort whatsoever to spot.


No, I was wondering what is so terrible about us.


you are asking what is so terrible about agressive people? Is that what you are asking, Calandale?



juliekitty
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06 Aug 2007, 12:07 am

sinsboldly wrote:
When the behaviors are part of a person's disorder or personality style, repercussions are usually not immediate, but instead accumulate over time as the individuals affected by the person come to recognize the disavowed aggression coming from that person. People with this personality style are often quite unconscious of their impact on others, and thus may be genuinely dismayed when held to account for the inconvenience or discomfort caused by their passive-aggressive behaviors. In that context, there is a failure to see how they might have provoked a negative response, so they feel misunderstood, held to unreasonable standards, and/or put upon.


Exactly. Someone who punches you in the nose did something concrete and undeniable that you can point to as a valid reason for your response, whatever that is. But passive aggression is crazy-making, because the person doing it will deny it and/or make it look like you're to blame.

It's not dangerous in that you'll get injured or killed, but it's dangerous in the sense that if you don't see what's going on, you can end up having an awful time - or a horrible life - with a person who constantly behaves badly, while being made to feel like it's all your fault and/or that there's nothing you can point to to justify leaving.



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06 Aug 2007, 12:21 am

Well, for me this passive aggression it seems to me like a defensive mechanism, insecurity I suppose, I wonder maybe a high porcentage of aspies or people on the spectrum wether they are male or females have this? Can we blame a person that has this? Now that I see this maybe I have some of it, and a few people I know have some of it too, but I guess I can't really blame them.


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DataSage
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06 Aug 2007, 12:28 am

sinsboldly wrote:
so let me get this straight, you gear up your moxie to approach women so she can tell you that you are too good for her? Does anyone ELSE get this?


Yes, because only manipulative girls would be scared away by that. And anyone here who wants a manipulative girl is batshit insane.



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06 Aug 2007, 12:32 am

Passive aggression! lol


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06 Aug 2007, 12:33 am

juliekitty wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
When the behaviors are part of a person's disorder or personality style, repercussions are usually not immediate, but instead accumulate over time as the individuals affected by the person come to recognize the disavowed aggression coming from that person. People with this personality style are often quite unconscious of their impact on others, and thus may be genuinely dismayed when held to account for the inconvenience or discomfort caused by their passive-aggressive behaviors. In that context, there is a failure to see how they might have provoked a negative response, so they feel misunderstood, held to unreasonable standards, and/or put upon.


Exactly. Someone who punches you in the nose did something concrete and undeniable that you can point to as a valid reason for your response, whatever that is. But passive aggression is crazy-making, because the person doing it will deny it and/or make it look like you're to blame.

It's not dangerous in that you'll get injured or killed, but it's dangerous in the sense that if you don't see what's going on, you can end up having an awful time - or a horrible life - with a person who constantly behaves badly, while being made to feel like it's all your fault and/or that there's nothing you can point to to justify leaving.



Hmm...because what I engage in is open,
I wonder if it even really is PA. I mean, when
I'm not all cranky, I can talk about it, but I'll
give "the silent treatment" type of s**t, when
I'm in a pissy mood.



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06 Aug 2007, 12:35 am

DataSage wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
so let me get this straight, you gear up your moxie to approach women so she can tell you that you are too good for her? Does anyone ELSE get this?


Yes, because only manipulative girls would be scared away by that. And anyone here who wants a manipulative girl is batshit insane.


Only manipulative girls would turn you
down because you are so awesome and
gorgeous, and anyone else just would see
your fantastic (as evidenced by your behaviour
here) personality?

My gods, there's something more vain that I am!



juliekitty
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06 Aug 2007, 12:40 am

calandale wrote:
couldn't (and really still don't) see where it causes all that much harm.


Depends what you're doing.

A bit of sulking and "What's wrong?" "Nothing" isn't so bad.

But some manifestations of it can be emotionally abusive.



juliekitty
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06 Aug 2007, 12:41 am

DataSage wrote:
only manipulative girls would be scared away by that.


Case in point. Behave in a way that's repellent and contemptible, and then try to make the case that only a bad person would find your behaviour repellent and contemptible.

Someone who wasn't very experienced or didn't have very high self-esteem could fall for that. That's how emotional abusers do their thing.



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06 Aug 2007, 12:50 am

juliekitty wrote:
calandale wrote:
couldn't (and really still don't) see where it causes all that much harm.


Depends what you're doing.

A bit of sulking and "What's wrong?" "Nothing" isn't so bad.

But some manifestations of it can be emotionally abusive.


Yeah. They certainly are. But, somewhat
mitigated (I think) by being able to discuss
them, when not grumping.

Ah well.



juliekitty
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06 Aug 2007, 12:52 am

calandale wrote:
somewhat mitigated (I think) by being able to discuss them, when not grumping.


Yes, if you can discuss them honestly and reasonably.



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06 Aug 2007, 12:53 am

juliekitty wrote:
Someone who wasn't very experienced or didn't have very high self-esteem could fall for that. That's how emotional abusers do their thing.


Oh right, now I'm an "emotional abuser." This sounds exactly like something from a women's study courses. God forbid women actually work for males! This just in: I'm not subservient to the female race. And I'm certainly not subservient to manipulative ones at that.