Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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I think there's also a school of thought that says a lot of women who go for abusive men had abusive fathers. If I remember right, the theory is that they never came to terms with the original abuse, and, transference being what it is, they unconsciously find a replacement father to carry on the unfinished business, either in a crazy attempt to resolve it, or because it makes them feel secure, in some sense of the word. I suppose it could also happen the other way round, man with abusive mother seeks abusive partner. Don't know how much truth there is in that stuff though. But if I were to get myself a new partner, then if she'd had an abusive father I'd want to see how that played out when I got angry with her, before making any commitment to her.

I'm the typical almost never seen and appreciated nice guy type, but I also DO have lots and lots of hobbies, and would really hope that special someone would have her own interests and hobbies, too, so of course I wouldn't be that clingy. But I'm mostly always perceived as "too much".

"You want too much, and you want it too much, and you want it to happen too soon...." Yeah right... That's not even what it's about, at all. I did long for a family and kids (maybe still do, I'm not really sure what I think about that anymore), but I've never been really ready to start with that very soon. More like meeting the partner any time soon, starting dating and seeing each other as partners living apart for... well, I'd say for as long as possible, I guess... and eventually be sure enough of our feelings and emotions, moving in together, probably marry... and eventually start trying to have kids. I've looked on this as a process of several years.

What apparently is so unique is that I don't have any definitive limits, deciding at once when I meet a new female that I could ONLY be friends with her, or that I would ONLY want to meet her more to get into a relationship with her. My feeling is more or less always that only time can tell. It's not like I always go around and hope for love, but obviously that's how they read me - even in cases when I'm NOT interested in more than friendship.

I would have thought this would be the fairly normal, but it seems not. Friendship is an important piece of true love and a really well functioning relationship, and we ALL do know that love not only MAY evolve from a plain friendship, but it's even pretty common knowledge that love in such relationships tend to be the strongest, best lasting one.

But despite this, LOTS of people - at least women - have an irrational tendency to write off friends from being possible as love material, and fight against romantic emotions when they have already decided "I only WANT to be friends with him". I've seen female single friends do that when emotions for me has arisen several times by now...

Even more so, many of those who easily find partners and relationships, go into and out off relationships in a way that suggests they never actually seem to find LOVE, and don't know what it is. They more seem to act on the CRUSHES and the plain ATTRACTION. They get a crush on someone, mistake that för love, run into moving together, often even have kids, and they have NO CLUE on learning to KNOW each other and become friends and develop real LOVE, which is supposed to be there when the initial crush fades away. Instead, when the crush runs out, they seem to think "oh, darn, the love is over, I don't love you anymore". And so it's time to break up. Or staying together for the sake of the kids...

Here in Sweden, at least, I also notice that very few seem aware of love being something you always need to nurture to keep alive, but they take it for granted and do nothing to actively keep it alive. And so it wears off, quite obviously. Often for the one part, while the other one still loves the first one...

I don't know how many women I've learned to know over the years, who have been in relationships, often married, kids, owning their own house and one car each, who have come to confide in me and described there life as more or less:

Just among what women I've personally have happened to come across and get to know over the years, I've really lost count of how many who have eventually described there lives about this way...

A feeling I get is that most women do not want someone who appear TOO loving and caring, but want to find someone with a more moderate sense of these capabilities, and that this is the very reason so many of them never find the guys like me. They describe guys like me as the ones they would really want to end up in in a relationship with, but never learn to detect them, and will at the very best learn step by step to realize "I always fall for the wrong guys", but in most cases they WILL continue to write off the guys who really are the kind they dream of living together with as *friends only material*, since they don't even know that we are the guys who WOULD become the partners they dream about ending up with.

Guys who really just like a woman as a friend, but of course wants to have some sex too, and ain't very romantic and loving, quite naturally give that more moderate impression, so many women mistake them as nice enough men and fall for them.

Loving and romantic guys seem "too much" and to some degree I even think the actual loving-romantic style is what is mistaken for more of just a "such a tender and caring guy" thing which is assumed more to make him ideal as the sweetest and cutest male friend...

If only both sexes really understood each other....

....which often seems somewhat distorted, as I just described in my previous post.

Another typical example of this:

A dominant abusive guy gives the impression to know what he wants... which for some reason seems positive.

A nice, equality-minded man. who is in for a relationship of mutual giving and taking, gives the opposing impression of not knowing what he wants...

yeah, they kill themselves out of loneliness and boredom, lol. Being a good person can get boring after a while, though i do have a measure of confidence. It is hard to balance that with looking cool and like a jerk though.

Alright, from my perspective, here is the thing:

As a man in my early 20's, I can tell you that although I am athletic, decent looking, smart, funny, good-mannered and charming in a quirky way, I am an absolute failure with women, want to know why?
Because courtship as we know it in today's world is a game of stereotypes, subtlties, and innuendo. I just do not care enough to involve myself in the affairs of dating. Eventually, while going about my business in life, someone will come along that likes me and vice a versa, and it will work out that way. I dont put the pus** on the pedestal, and I think that is that problem many guys have. They act like it is such a big deal and look like fools for it. I

for one, as an Aspie, cannot even tell when a woman is even interested in me, so I dont even bother. So just act like you dont even give a hoot about it, and eventually an oppurtunity will present itself, or at least I hope.

These rules are so stupid. Nature sometimes is irritating and annoying.
I just want to be a nice guy who never risks hurting others and wants nothing to do with competition.

Society, let people be nice without ripping into them.
What is it with talk of assertiveness, aggression, and junk?

you can't just cast something aside simply because you don't believe in it, whether you like it or not, it exists
the world is full of competition and aggression, not just in dating

Well I say it's high time humans change that.
I am an idealist and I will forever believe my own take and my perceptions on what is right and wrong.
Humans are an advanced species, who should be feeling advanced and all encompassing for different ways of being.

If men want to be assertive and dominant, then that is fine.
If women are attracted to men who are assertive and dominant, then that is fine.

But by no means should either of these two factions scold the more timid male, or the assertive female.
In some cases even a submissive male, or a dominant female.

There are lots of ways of being, and they all work - some have fewer connections perhaps but they still work.

Last edited by samtoo on 14 Nov 2010, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well as true as that may be, you're not gonna change anyone by telling it to people here
you can't change how dating works, because it seems to work for most people, nothing ever works for everyone
humanity can't have a utopia because we are a flawed species
like every other species

Nice guys finish last for the same reason nice lions finish last in the jungle. Humans are not separate from nature, we just think we are.

As for dating, getting lots of women is the same as getting lots of votes for political office; Broad, vague promises, saying it with authority, basically telling her what she wants to hear, and making her feel good. Now, if you want lasting love, then make your promises more specific and relevant to her needs. Some women respond to the former, some respond to the latter. If you don't choose the right girl, then your work is cut out for you. It's a lot easier to choose the right girl if you know who you are and what you want/need. The more insecure/needy she is, the more likely she will listen to Rico Suave.

Jesus loves me he loves me a bunch! He always puts Skippy in my lunch!

Nice guys aren't appreciated because they aren't exciting enough for the woman. You see, women are usually all about drama, and if you're not bringing drama to the table, then you're cast aside.

I imagine it was the same way in Caveman days. The man was the hunter, the aggressive male. The woman was the gatherer, or submissive female. When the roles are reversed, it goes against nature, so people generally don't know how to react.

im a forty something single mum and if i had my time again i would only go for nice guys ,most good looking guys are jerks.in the end everyones looks fade happyness is way more important.

Hi, I wanted to give an opinion on this subject as a woman. Unfortunately, this post may come off as arrogant but please try not to take it that way-I know easier said than done. I was just dx'd with PDD-NOS. How much that weighs into this response, I am not sure yet.

I have had the unfortunate experience of being attracted to and attracting the cliched good looking 'jerk', my entire life. Never learning from my lessons, is actually how I found out I had this dx. I was so devestated from a break-up of 7 yrs. with 'him' (I really think he had Aspergers and that was our glue) I had to be hospitalized.

Getting back to my point, he was extremely attractive, yet he was very shy. I have always loved shy guys. I don't think it is so much that girls are not attracted to nice shy, guys. I think a lot of so called 'nice guys' aren't good at learning how to, at least set up the bait for women visually, attract women superficially. Women are actually just as visual, sexually, as men. I don't care what scientist's say. You can learn to 'mask' (I ceartainly did growing up) attractive mating qualities. Just like in the animal kingdom. If you knew the guy I was talking about, you wouldn't believe the way he transformed himself from his teen years to now.

Just like I do not have problems in the area of attracting men physically, I have serious problems, I mean serious problems keeping them because of my immature, underdeveloped social skills. I am going to have to work on those and overcome them in order to have a successful relationship.

I hope that was not rude and it helped a little.

Abbey

I find if you search hard enough, there are maybe at least 1 in 100 women who don't care for all that drama and riff-raff.

At least that, I should think. Not all women are from Venus, that's for sure. Even the "submissive non-hunting female" concept has little hard evidence to support it, with many arguing that it's just an outmoded piece of sexist propaganda.