More Thought on Incels.

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I think a lot of people are overly defensive regarding their hidden feelings; but that is just my opinion.

Empathy and ToM are very much a problem for many, especially if it's something they themselves don't experience and can't relate to.

Like most people, I'm RIGHT handed. I remember in school, one or two kids may have been left handed. It was just a novelty to me. Looking back, I realize that those left-handed kids had all the same worries as the righties (homework, book reports, pop quizzes, etc). But in addition to that, they had to worry about not being able to sharpen a pencil or find a catcher's mitt to play baseball. So, they had all of the same worries, and these additional burdens.

Since I wasn't burdened by these things, I never really thought much about it. Didn't make their hardship any less true, but it was a truth that had no bearing on my life. Now, in trying to be conscientious about different types of people and their hardships (which may not be self-evident to my personal experience) I can't sanctify demonizing a whole group of people for their state of being.

It takes more than empathy for me to take seriously the "plight" of some mopey, dopey sad-sack who cannot get a date.  I went dateless for the first 20 years of my life, and no one came to my "rescue" until I accepted the fact that it was really all my fault and that it was up to me to do something about it.

It WAS a woman. Which makes the situation even more puzzling. Why would a woman tell me to do something that constitutes harassment toward another woman? She was basically telling me to harass women! I though women were naturally loyal to each other, even total strangers, in order to protect each other from ugly, disgusting beta males. Unless, of course, my therapist was trying to get me imprisoned, which would protect women from my beta actions and ugly face for at least a few years.

For some men, it is indeed their fault. For others, I think they really can't improve that much. Whatever improvement helped you may not work for someone else. One size doesn't necessarily fit all. But tell us, what did you?

Last edited by ezbzbfcg2 on 12 Sep 2021, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I would imagine she had no answer for you, had no empathy or comprehension of your situation, and was trying to give you some sort of advice, however terrible, to try to delude you into being happier...at least for the rest of the session.

Stopped complaining, worked out, lost weight, earned a degree, started a career, took acting and dancing lessons, learned to play a couple of instruments, dressed for the office, went to church, and met the woman who would be my wife.

Of course, I could have stayed home and played video games all day while complaining that women ignored me, but that would not have worked, would it?

If that's what you were doing beforehand, I can see why you couldn't get a girlfriend. No disagreement. Average-looking men who do that won't meet any women. But there is a limit when a man falls into that ugly-camp, and these are men who you might not think are ugly (but you're not a woman).

I won't name names, but there are several posters on this website who seem like legitimately good people, but struggle horribly with women. According to them, they have jobs and keep in good shape. They're not sitting around moping all day. At some point, looks become a factor. "Dressing for the office" and "taking acting lessons" won't work for everyone. Hell, most men don't even have to do all of that. If you needed that much work just to get a wife, how do you think you'd have fared if you were even a little bit uglier in the eyes of women?

It's cruel to say it, but sometimes you can't put lipstick on a pig. This whole thread seems like blaming the pig for not applying enough make-up.

What I was doing beforehand was study, study, study... even that paid off, however.

More like blaming the nature of the pig for wallowing in muck and getting fat.

One of the worst things a dateless person can do is complain, complain, complain about being dateless.

I am not sure that looks are the biggest problem for a lot of the men you are pointing to. I think its fundamentally a mindset.

By now it's apparent that NT girls are picky with who they date, so even slight behavioural quirks will be a red flag to an average NT girl.

So its an overall package. Yes looks are also important but its just the first step to get a "foot in the door". The checklist is damn long.

Well, maybe for some it would be better to not go for average NT girls. Idk maybe the reason I don't feel like the generalizations that get made about women around here really apply to me, but to me that would suggest perhaps other neurodiverse women or those with some kind of disability would have a bit different perspective from an average NT women who maybe might fall into more of those generalizations.

But seems some of these perpetually single guys, don't want to even consider that. Its like they want to date the girl those jerks in HS got, but would probably ignore or friendzone an autistic/disabled or just maybe less conventionally attractive girl if they did express any interest.

Does it really seem that way? I feel for the ugly, I'm not gonna blame them for their lack of sex appeal. But tell me, is your boyfriend on the spectrum? More often than not, I see a lot of men, regular, average men, settling for frumpy and even disabled women. So, if those women can date men much better looking than them, why would they settle for the uglies? Lot of sweeping generalities on this thread. It's a sad state of human nature, hate the "other," hate the group we don't understand or want to understand.

To be fair, the pool of available higher functioning autistic/disabled girls isn't that high to start off with. Higher functioning girls are not easy to meet and find one who is not in a relationships and looking for relationship would be even harder.

This is why I was focusing (tend to focus) on NT women. But your point is valid, a lot of these guys want a "pretty" girl and they do have to compromise, especially if they don't have a lot going in the looks department themselves.

Reminds me of a talk I had with my partner a couple of weeks ago. To me, we just seemed to "get along naturally", but I asked her about it and learned she had carefully evaluated me from early on whether I was "marriage material" or not. Things like whether I'd be able to provide long-term for a family, whether I was responsible with people, money, time, etc., how I treated others around me, and so on. I was kinda taken aback by it, but appreciate it in retrospect. Girl with standards are always preferable to girls without. Same reason why a Ferrari you get for free feels kinda cheap and listless after a few drives.

Not in all cases, but I certainly have observed that kind of mindset, like it is like some get too focused on having to get one of those like average NT women and thus may lose out on other opportunities. My boyfriend isn't on the spectrum but idk seems he has a couple traits like he's very into painting warhammer minatures like a special interest and has a sensory issue with that material of stove top burners. Also though idk maybe those average guys treated them well, wheras at least some of the guys who feel they have no success, would like not want to settle for something that wouldn't raise their social status. Its like some to seem to be stuck in being like jealous of the guys who got the girls in HS and it persists to their adulthood to where they get stuck wanting like a hot girlfriend that will even raise their social status in life. I guess my point is some some seem to be jealous that they can't just be some jerk guy who says the right things to get a girl intersted to lead them on. Like seems instead of just wanting to find the right person out there for them, underneath it they really just want the experience in being of the position of just being able to lead women on and get sex but without comitting to a real relationship. But that is just some of the guys who aren't in relationships certainly not all of them.

I figure most disabled women would not want a relationship with a guy who sees them as less, or just as grudginly accepting them because 'well its the best I could do but if given the opportunity would have preferred a normal partner to you' And unfortunately seems at least some of these single guys who are very unhappy with their single status do act that way when it comes down to it.

Still though I don't think people are trying to be hateful in this thread. But there is a very real problem of that incel ideology encouraging/pushing some young guys struggling with getting dates and relationships to go on to commit horrible mass shootings and things. And so for sure something should be done to put a stop to that.