Could you be loved?

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If someone got to know the real me, they'd find out that I'm too emotionally intense for them to handle and they would run away really fast...

And now that you mention it, yeah it does make sense... at least now i know why I'm unlovable...

Last edited by ToadOfSteel on 12 Mar 2010, 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"If someone got to know the real me, they'd find out that I'm too emotionally intense for them to handle and they would run away really fast..."

@Toad, according to you they're already running away - but they're running away from the fake Toad that you put out there. Isn't that a sign that your strategy isn't working?

Well, I do have to give you credit for that post you made about fear. Yeah, you're probably right in that I am afraid, not of rejection or failure or anything like that, but of the emotional destruction associated with such events. It's far easier (though by no means actually easy) to deal with a rejection if I'm not emotionally invested in it. My first rejection was an all-in attempt on my part, and I failed thoroughly. I was suicidal for some time, and severely depressed throughout most of high school. It took me a good three years to "get over it", because it was so devastating.

So the hypocrisy on my part comes in because subconsciously I'm doing the very things I speak out against, all as a protective mechanism. Yeah, i've been hurt, before and after that event, and rather significantly so. But not to that extent. All those other hurtful events I still had a protected emotional core to retreat to that was undamaged. But not when I opened myself up to a woman enough to try a relationship with her... that event rendered me damaged goods, unable to maintain the necessary requirements for a serious emotional connection, and hence unlovable...

"So the hypocrisy on my part comes in because subconsciously I'm doing the very things I speak out against, all as a protective mechanism."

Concentrate on figuring this part out. It will help.

Well I already brought up the emotional defensiveness with the therapist, and thats one of the many things that we're going to work on, but I don't know if it can ever be fixed. Some wounds are just impossible to heal...

Boy, I hear ya there...

And no, you don't seem like a jackass for using the Love & Dating board for it's intended purpose.

Alright, so the strongest recurring theme happening here is your rejection of the notion that you are capable of settling somewhere between the two extreme poles of self-image. You believe that if you make an effort to cultivate some self-love, that you'll go way over-board into the territory of narcissism.

You've had multiple people here trying to reassure you that it doesn't work like that, give you examples, offer their hand in helping you navigate that path. You seem to reject this notion outright. But I have yet to see you give a logical reason for that rejection.
Indeed, most of us, I think, are finding your presumption baseless, while our stance is backed by a simple look at handful of random people that run the range of self-esteem, centered around a middle-ground(Many aspies included). You apparently think you are significantly different, and that this reliable pattern does not apply to you.

Why?

@Sound - Thanks.

If I had to guess, probably because those extremes are the only two states I have ever known in my life. Self-image isn't the only thing that I am utterly incapable of finding balance in. I go overboard in a lot of things... most commonly in the eating category (which is why I'm still overweight), but it applies in just about everything I do. For example, I refuse to drink alcohol of any kind because I know that once i have that first drink, I'll end up having like 5 more. In contrast to the eating issue I mentioned, I find it hard to exercise because I keep over-exerting myself and I become very physically tired for days on end. I tend to fixate on things very easily as well. If the object of fixation is the work I'm supposed to be doing for school, I tend to finish it very quickly. Otherwise, it will be put off almost indefinitely...

This balance issue was brought up in my last therapy session. I asked her if she could help me love myself without becoming the monster i was as a kid, and she said she would do everything in her power to prevent me from slipping into that, so I guess we'll see in future appointments.

HopeGrows: I guess I want to say, mainly, that although psychotherapy might be helpful for some, it´s not going to be the right thing for everybody. Like with spirituality or religion, I believe the path to self-discovery is different for everyone, and each person needs to find their own way. That means it´s very personal; different things work for different people. There are times when you seem to be urging us to "get help", and I think that´s what some of us find offensive. I, for instance, came from a loving family, and had quite a "normal" upbringing; nothing dysfunctional there! But my relationships (or lack thereof) have been far from easy. More about that later...

I think ManErg made a good point when he said many of us get rejected before we even get a chance to have a relationship. Many of us have had very little, or no experience. In my opinion, the best self-help method to enable one to have better relationships is experience itself. I´m sure it took you at least one, maybe even a couple of abusive relationships before you realized that that was your pattern? It´s difficult to work on relationships before you´ve even had a long term-relationship; how can you really know what you´re "working on"? In addition, if you´re a person who´s been constantly rejected by the opposite sex all your life, and for no apparent reason, it can be awfully demoralizing, and hard to motivate yourself to keep "working on it"! Even the title, "Could You Be Loved?", is something that many of us ask ourselves daily.

I did actually spend years of my single life "working on myself"- (not with a psychologist, although I did read about every book on psychology that I could get my hands on). Those years of trying to work things out, however, did in no way prepare me for the cold reality of relationships, or how to deal with them. When I finally did start to have relationships, the biggest problem I had, over and over again, was that I did not fit into some prescribed way of acting that people expected. There seems to be a certain protocol, a "blueprint" of being that people expect one to follow. Although I felt I was being honest and true to myself, I was constantly criticized for being who I am. I threw men off and constantly confused them, just because I did not give the expected reaction. I was like an actress who didn´t know her lines. I had no way to anticipate that this would be "a problem". No psychotherapist could have helped me, unless there was one willing to walk me through every scenario of every possible situation, telling me what I should say or do. But then, essentially, I wouldn´t have been myself, would I?

I think what I find more than a little upsetting is that you imply- maybe without even meaning to- that there´s something inherently wrong with Asperger´s Syndrome that needs to be "fixed". You mentioned inflexibility as a big problem. Well, I admit, I´m not the most flexible person in the world! I guess it´s because if I have some control over my environment, I can control my other traits better. I can be a better person, basically. Asperger´s Syndrome is not so easy to "fix", we all have to find ways to compensate. But we accept ourselves for who we are.

And yes, there are problems and experiences that people with AS have, that NTs do not have.

@Morgana - I suggested lots of ways that might help one improve their chances of succeeding in intimate relationships. Therapy was one suggestion - it was the only suggestion that @ManErg chose to focus on, but I made a few other suggestions, including a list of several books that people might find useful. I did not convey, either implicitly or explicitly, that the suggestions included in this post are some type of finite list of ideas that might help people along their path of self-discovery. It's just a list of ideas I came up with, after thinking about the many, many posts I've read on the subject on this board. So - it's not all-inclusive, not perfect, not going to work for everyone. I speak from my experience only, and the answers I've found based on my experience. I'm not a shrink, not a therapist, not a self-help guru, and I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.

If you think that I don't understand rejection, you're dead wrong. I've been rejected - as a matter of fact, I've been rejected, then humiliated as part of that rejection in a very public way. I've spent plenty of time in my adult life without a partner. So I know what it's like to be alone. I know what it's like to give up on love and then decide to take a chance on it "one more time" only to have your a$$ handed to you - all courtesy of someone you really cared about. I've been there.

For the record, your statement that I've "implied" that Asperger's is a problem that needs to be "fixed" really pisses me off. I've spent quite a bit of time and effort stating and re-stating and re-stating that I believe a lot of relationship troubles that I've read about here have nothing to do with Asperger's - nothing. They are very likely caused by other issues - which can be addressed, resolved, and healed very successfully. Are there strategies that can be used to better manage some of the symptoms of Asperger's? YES - and I know that because I've read what many Aspies have written here to describe how they've done just that.

If you - or anyone else reading this - doesn't want to go to a therapist, please don't - it won't help if you don't want to be there. If you don't want to take my suggestions, don't. If you want to make your own suggestions, have at it. I'm sure you have something of value to add, as someone who's had some relationship experience, is Aspie, and is not dysfunctional. Write, write, write. I'd rather read what you have to offer on the subject than continue to defend myself.

Last edited by HopeGrows on 13 Mar 2010, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

@ Toad-
Well, now you make it seem a bit more valid, there. I can relate a bit to some of those.
However. Although it seems to make sense that self-control issues in some areas would be applicable to others, it's not that simple. Issues with, for instance, controlling your eating do not necessarily translate into your capacity to control your self-image. I wish I could give some info to support this claim, however I can't readily come up it. However, if you talked to a bunch of random people about their issues with self-control, you will probably find it's not consistent - That they can successfully control themselves in some ways, but are less successful in other ways.

That said, this is probably something that AS interfaces with, so maybe you've got it harder. Yet that still does not mean you're going to slip immediate over to the extreme end of the self-esteem spectrum. It means you'll possibly have more of a trial with it, but the result is not assured. At all.

You need to pick up some faith, take the leap, and just try this. You should trust her, and the people around you, to let you know if you're going too far. You can put systems in place to keep you in check. You can do it, so long as you put your fear of failure aside, and are willing to put in some effort.

And for f***s sake, even if you're thinking it inside, stop typing out your destructive self-talk phrases here. The "I'm just gonna fail" style comments. If not for yourself, then for us. It's fine to feel skeptical, but at least try to curb the self-berating.

Last edited by Sound on 12 Mar 2010, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i-gcWdBUb8[/youtube]

Quoted for the sake of emphasis.

Now... For instance...
Aspergers is a significant cause of social lag.
The resultant social lag is a significant cause self esteem issues,
Self-esteem issues are (IMO) the problem for most of the men and women who visit this section, and creates problems finding & pursuing a relationship.

That said, although this is a very clear causal chain, that doesn't mean that the relationship problems are about AS.
In reality, both self-esteem and social lag can be addressed DIRECTLY, and problems of those variety can be ameliorated independently. The little quirks of AS can persist, but meanwhile the self-esteem issues and/or social lag can be made to no longer exist, or are rendered non-significant. And thus a healthy relationship can more readily find purchase.

So far, I have not read a single story on this board that has given me reasonable doubts that this is untrue for anyone here, barring truly exceptional circumstance.

I think I'm unloveable

@0_equals_true, now that's what I'm talkin about! Thanks for the video.

@Postures - We all feel that way some time - it's not true. Hang in there.

Thank you