To the men: What us women face.

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You've misunderstood what I have said. I didn't mean you personally (I should have worded it better) I meant quite a lot of women resort to that attitude as a bail-out if necessary. It's happened to me and friends of mine where the women in question have claimed they have wanted to know someone for ages before dating them then as soon as I or they have admitted their interest, the women in question have then turned into completely different people. Not only that but their next boyfriends have been blokes they have known for all of 5 minutes.

You've misread the second point as well, what I meant was when a woman turns a guy down and then asks him to stay friends with her just because a. she likes the attention and b. she still has the option of changing her mind, knowing that he'd still go for it if the chance came around. That's just selfish. If someone isn't interested in the person who is chasing them, then they should just tell them to look elsewhere rather then saying 'We can still be friends' when both parties would only be 'friends' with each other for the wrong reasons'.

Please don't be offended, but this is an unrealistic attitude. Men expect women to make an effort with their appearance (not to ridiculous extremes), and vice-versa. I'm sure your ideal man would be smart and in shape, right? So you expect 'him' to do the necessary grooming, work-out, etc., for your benefit, but you don't feel the need to reciprocate? Hmm!

Of course it's not all about looks; I'm sure you're a nice person, and you want a decent guy, not just someone who looks good. But you probably won't attract the quality of man you desire unless you make the effort appearance-wise. I know it's superficial, but that's how it works!

You don't consider "2 hours a day painting chemicals on her face every morning" and "centerfold body" to be ridiculous extremes? What Chronos described is a ridiculous extreme- so much so that I assumed it was hyperbole. And to you it merely counted as "making an effort with your appearance". The most high-maintenance women that I know hit only 1 or at most 2 of those points and those are the high maintenance ones.

I'm a guy & I do NOT expect or even want a woman to make this kind of effort with appearance. I know other guys who would agree with me on this when I say that appearances are very low priority on what we look for in a partner. My experience is that women are obsessed with looks usually are more apt to have shallow personalities. I'm starting to lose my hair & am a little overweight so it would be hypocritical of me to only want a girl that has perfect hair & body. Women tell me that I have low self-esteem but some women have much more issues with self-esteem than me. Some women are waaay to skinny. I've known women who would talk about how they are hungry but do not eat anything because they think that they are overweight; I would personally much rather a partner who's healthy than anorexic

Err, the way I read it she was implying that she doesn't invest that much time in her appearance, in terms of attracting men (she said that she doesn't know that much about fashion or hair). I was simply pointing out that, rightly or wrongly, those who put more effort into their appearance (finding out about fashion and hair, if necessary) are more likely to be successful in the dating arena. I'm only offering some friendly advice, from a man's perspective (and I'm not advising her to go to unrealistic lengths, which is actually a turn-off anyway). I could say 'don't bother with fashion or hair', but that probably wouldn't achieve the desired result!

Nick007 - It's very noble of you not to be superficial, but you're one guy, with AS, so maybe you see things a little differently in this context. I assume she wants to have the maximum likelihood of attracting quality men (who will probably be NTs). So my advice about investing an appropriate effort in her appearance stands.

I known NT guys who feel the same way. Some are overweight or have certain issues/problems but are good people. Lots of people are to obsessed with looks simply because they think others are judging em for it. I do NOT agree with that & I would much rater my partner love me because of my personality instead of things like my looks. Looks change over time

There are tons of women who look good without knowing much about fashion beyond that the clothes should fit and match and without knowing much about hairstyles beyond knowing that hair needs washing, brushing and cutting. You can stay in shape without having a centerfold body. You can take care of your face without makeup. There is a whole realm of very low maintenance looks-upkeep that you don't seem aware of.

Look, if she prefers to be low maintenance that's fine. But she created a thread saying she's looking for a great guy, with a link to a very good looking man. I'm simply offering her the candid advice that the more effort she invests in her appearance (again, without being extreme) the more chance she'll have of getting the most desirable possible man (men generally prefer women wearing make up, for example). What she does with this advice is up to her.

The way I understood it, it was more about exposing men's shallowness than advertising what she looked for in a guy.

To be fair, I think you're assuming a lot about men. I have have some pretty close guy friends and most of them say that they really don't like all the chemical-wearing airheads they see every day. They like girls who are just themselves. In fact every one of them has said that a girl that has a quirky/strange personality is very interesting.

But I do know where you're coming from. There's a fine line between being 'interesting' and being creepy, some guys are very sensitive to this, others not so much. I don't have much luck with 'normal' guys, but I'm lucky due to the fact that I'm mostly attracted to alternative people, who appreciate eccentricity a little more. Though I've never really been able to hold down a relationship. I think what's needed is basically a guy crazy enough to enjoy my craziness, but sane enough to understand that that's something I can't turn off. Maybe you need to adjust the type of guy you're looking for? Or if NTs are really giving you so much trouple, why not try guys within the Autist community?

This is what you are facing dear, and not what 'women' are facing.

no problem.



i agree leading someone on is very selfish.. and also that people should be clear about what they really mean when they say something like "let's be friends."

i just don't agree at all that anything brought up in this discussion, any obnoxious or confusing or otherwise off-putting behavior, is strictly a male or female thing.

i'm going to say it: these things simply must be so much harder for people on the spectrum than not, generally speaking, for so many reasons. social anxieties, communication difficulties, inability to read people, sensitivities about being touched, and other things that will vary from one person to another.

i personally don't ever know if I'm leading someone on, because unless a guy states explicity IN WORDS what his intentions are, i don't know what they are. and also, if i do become aware that someone is interested, i can't tell the depth of the interest. so the only thing i've learned, to try to make things a little clearer, is to slow down.

The general sentiment around here has been that "plaster", though common, is something to laugh at, ever since the early '90s. Just like alcoholism.
Of course, I grew up in a rural end of the land, where boys seem to appreciate a girl who's "one of the guys".

You want the guy in the Ed Hardy shirt?!

I know aspies are slow on the social uptake, but the fashion world -- a leading indicator for the mating world -- issued its final verdict on guys in Ed Hardy shirts a while back. And it wasn't positive.

If I see a woman I am interested in, I will say something. I am not going to be like a dog in heat but I will talk to her and try to get to know her. I am in no hurry, but rather to see how it clicks with our personalities.