Mail Order Brides

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Good luck with that, it's easy enough to HQ in another country if one gives you too much trouble.
Maximizing profit is their only concern.

the matchmakers wouldn't match up poor women with wealthy men in those countries.

simply deciding that "Life isn't fair, there are winners and losers" would result in absolutely no advances for human rights, i.e. we'd still have legal slavery. it's fine if you don't personally care about these issues but thankfully other people do.

Yes they would and do.

People can care about it all they want, I'm just being realistic. There always have been and always will be winners and losers.

It's a sad reality that many women have a lesser chance of a self-determined life and a greater risk of marital abuse if they marry in their gender-unequal home country. Despite the pitfalls of international online matchmaking, there is a high probability that they are better off in a more developed country that grants them equal rights and legal protection. If we condemn these marriages based on socio-economic differences, we also have to condemn billionaires who marry a partner of their own nationality who is below their socio-economic station.

In an ideal world, there wouldn't be any economic differences between nations and individuals. Also, everybody would be handsome and healthy and nobody would have to live without love and partnership. Alas, we don't live in an ideal world, and we as individuals don't have the power to change that. People have the right to pursue happiness imho, be that by marrying someone from a less developed country or by leaving such a country and taking their chances elsewhere.

If the latter are in danger of being taken advantage of, we need to solve that problem where we have the power to solve it, which is in our own countries. We need to make sure that immigrants are well aware of their rights, have access to translators and social services, and don't end up in abusive relationships. Condemning desperate people who try to escape their lonely existence by searching for partners outside their own socio-economic circle is no solution.

I have to correct my utopian vision: In a really ideal world, people would partner with life-like, intelligent androids who are programmed to love them. Nobody would feel used, objectified or taken advantage of, nobody would be lonely and depressed, and nobody would have to twist themselves into something that goes against their nature in order to meet the expectations of the other sex. Children would be bred in laboratories and brought up by professional educators according to the most current, research-based practices in effective child rearing. That should end the war between the sexes, take the reproductive pressure off humanity, and keep everyone sane and happy.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 26 Feb 2012, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

sure, that is why i suggest opening up immigration so that people don't have to enter into (largely) unhappy marriages to come to more-developed countries. also people should be fully educated on the risks before they come over and should be able to access full information about their potential spouse. and more supports should be offered in the new country to the people who do take that route. the system right now is broken.

one HUGE difference people can make is by getting involved in human rights organisations and supporting initiatives that seek to change the situation. also, supporting charities that help women in those countries get a leg up would be helpful. some are focused on helping women to start their own businesses and such, which can assist these women in making change for themselves.

but simply accepting the system as it is (and gaining from it) is not a good option in my opinion.

why is that ideal?

I have problems with notion of taking advantage in this context. Is it really so hard to imagine that two people from very different socio-economic backgrounds can be in a loving relationship that doesn't involve deliberate exploitation? What if, for example, a Nigerian woman meets an Australian man on a platform like Second Life and the two happen to fall in love? Do we automatically have to assume that he is exploiting her because of her economic situation?

Besides, taking advantage works both ways. If an attractive woman (or man) marries a rich, lonely and desperate man (or woman) for their money, it is hard to say who is taking advantage of whom, and hard to measure who gets more value out of such a relationship. I'd rather not pass any such judgment and just assume that the two genuinely love one another. They are both adults and should know what they're doing. It is not my place to second-guess their motives.

it is pretty commonly accepted that the person in the western country who is selecting the other person is in the position of power. it is well-documented and well-supported in the research. the woman is under constant threat of being deported, and she faces a higher risk of spousal abuse. in fact, many men seek out the foreign women because they believe they will be subservient. that does not imply a balance of power.

are you suggesting that they are falling in love before the future bride moves over here?

i just want to add - i'll read any response you make CrazyCatLord, but i am not going to add anything further to the thread. i am glad to have had this discussion because i was completely unaware of the mail order bride situation, and i am also happy to have shared the information here for other people to consider. but i want to take a step back so other people can discuss their opinions. there's not much more i can say - people will make their own decisions (and hopefully now they are armed with new information in light of that).

Because men and women pursue different reproductive goals and employ different strategies, even on a genetic level (I wrote a long essay on the tug of war between sex-specific imprinted genes, but realized that it doesn't have much to do with my point). In the ideal case, we would be all treat each other as equals, and everyone would find a partner and live happily ever after. But alas, one of those ideals seems to be incompatible with the other.

The reason is, and I apologize for generalizing, that men have lower expectations from a mate than women. Women are usually looking for the best possible mate, whereas men are generally content with whoever is available at the time. In a society without economic pressure to live in a lasting relationship, both genders are likely to have a number of sexual relationships with periods of singledom in between. But attractive and/or successful males end up having a greater number of relationships than the average woman because of aforementioned female interest to pick the best possible candidate for the job.

This means that a large female group that ranges from average to highly attractive ends up with the a much smaller group of highly attractive males. In succession, that is, not all at the same time Less attractive women settle for average men, which leaves the less attractive men out in the rain. I don't have numbers to support this, but I bet that there are more desperate and lonely men who never had a relationship than women in the same situation. Just look at the statistical sex difference on dating sites. Or here in this forum, for that matter. It is obvious that autistic males are in the lower range of the desirability scale, at least in the eyes of NTs. Autistic women, on the other hand, seem to have much fewer problems finding a partner.

Short of developing a feasible non-human solution, there is nothing we can do about that (other than going back to a gender-unequal society that forces women to find a male partner, and I think we can agree that this is simply not an option). But people who achieve their reproductive goals are not necessarily happy either. Unless one happens to be homosexual, it seems almost impossible to find a partner who is really 100% compatible and won't be a disappointment in the long run. Hence my partially tongue in cheek suggestion to end the whole rat race and find alternative, non-biological solutions for both sexes. I think we would have a much easier time treating one another as equal human beings with no strings attached if we took off the pressure of the biological imperative.

Also some of the guys who want someone submissive may be very submissive themselves. My 2nd girlfriend was a feminist & she thought I was kind of a feminist too. Our relationship did not work because I'm submissive & she took almost complete charge & would not consider my input. I'd rather a submissive woman so our relationship could be more on equal terms

If people get to know each other online and meet in person before one of them moves to another country, I would indeed suggest that.

The risk of being deported is not permanent. I think in Germany, the citizenship and residence permit become permanent after three years, or sooner if a new citizen is economically independent. I admit that immigrants are exploitable during this time, but the same could be said about a person without own income who is married to a millionaire and has signed a prenup. And it is not as if new citizens don't enjoy legal protection. If everything fails, there is still the option of seeking asylum in the country of residence in order to get out of an abusive relationship without being deported.

Btw, I don't think that many men would exploit such a situation, or are looking for a subservient woman. That might be true in some cases, but certainly not all of them. I think that most men who use international dating agencies are simply desperate to find a partner. And as with all relationships and marriages, people have to take care to find the right partner who will treat them with love and respect. From what I've seen, there is an incredibly large pool of lonely Western men who compete for the hearts of relatively few women (the same as on all dating sites).

Despite the point that I'm arguing here, I wouldn't want to live with someone who might only endure me for a while in order to improve their socio-economic situation. I think it is hard enough to maintain a relationship with someone who shares one's cultural background and interests and is economically independent. Cultural and linguistic differences probably put a lot of additional strain on relationships. Plus, one would never know if the marriage was only a means to an end.

I think those differences can be very challenging at the begging of the relationship but working together to overcome them could being the couple closer together & make the relationship stronger

That's just it. It requires a lot of work, patience and nonverbal understanding. For someone who has trouble with social interaction and nonverbal cues in general, this is probably not a good option.