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Shau
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12 Jan 2013, 5:02 am

A question for the ladies:

I've been pondering something lately. What if you had a nice guy that had most of the qualities of a nice guy, but he was up front about the fact that he was offering to do all of these nice things for her in exchange for the occasional bit of nookie (Situation A)? Situation B, the nice guy still wants to be your friend, but is interested in going the "extra nice mile" for said occasional nookie instead?

A lot of the issues women seem to have with the nice guys is that they're deceptive about their real intentions. What if this weren't the case? My suspicion is that a lot of women would feel like he's treating her as some kind of prostitute, but...still curious to know.



BlueMax
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12 Jan 2013, 5:07 am

^^^ Sounds like a standard FWB to me. Seems like the generation after me prefers that arrangement over commitments of any kind. (In general, not all.)



Kinme
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12 Jan 2013, 5:14 am

BlueMax wrote:
^^^ Sounds like a standard FWB to me. Seems like the generation after me prefers that arrangement over commitments of any kind. (In general, not all.)


I think so too... I wouldn't be in that kind of relationship, ever. I want full commitment or nothing at all.



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12 Jan 2013, 5:14 am

Shau wrote:
A question for the ladies:

I've been pondering something lately. What if you had a nice guy that had most of the qualities of a nice guy, but he was up front about the fact that he was offering to do all of these nice things for her in exchange for the occasional bit of nookie (Situation A)? Situation B, the nice guy still wants to be your friend, but is interested in going the "extra nice mile" for said occasional nookie instead?

A lot of the issues women seem to have with the nice guys is that they're deceptive about their real intentions. What if this weren't the case? My suspicion is that a lot of women would feel like he's treating her as some kind of prostitute, but...still curious to know.


As long as he didn't go into a snit if he got rejected I'd have no problem with that. People do it all the time.

There's really two facets to the "Nice Guy/Girl", the deceptiveness and the retaliation when they get rejected. The fact is, you can be friends innocently with someone and then feelings develop, that's cool, and then there are some people who are just too shy to make a move, and that's understandable. But backstabbing, trying to break people up and just plain being nasty is not on - EVER.


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12 Jan 2013, 6:10 am

Shau wrote:
A question for the ladies:

I've been pondering something lately. What if you had a nice guy that had most of the qualities of a nice guy, but he was up front about the fact that he was offering to do all of these nice things for her in exchange for the occasional bit of nookie (Situation A)? Situation B, the nice guy still wants to be your friend, but is interested in going the "extra nice mile" for said occasional nookie instead?

A lot of the issues women seem to have with the nice guys is that they're deceptive about their real intentions. What if this weren't the case? My suspicion is that a lot of women would feel like he's treating her as some kind of prostitute, but...still curious to know.


Yes, it does sound like a transaction similar to prostitution. And the "friendship" would end up totally superficial, emotionally empty and hardly fulfilling.

It's not that the guy is deceptive about his intentions (I mean, what sociable female doesn't have at least one male friend who wants to bone her at any given time?), it's about things turning out to be totally one-sided due to him only pretending to care about her when she thought she had a genuine trusting friend.



Shau
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12 Jan 2013, 6:18 am

blue_bean wrote:
Yes, it does sound like a transaction similar to prostitution. And the "friendship" would end up totally superficial, emotionally empty and hardly fulfilling.

It's not that the guy is deceptive about his intentions (I mean, what sociable female doesn't have at least one male friend who wants to bone her at any given time?), it's about things turning out to be totally one-sided due to him only pretending to care about her when she thought she had a genuine trusting friend.


What's your take on the situation where a guy is interested in friendship, and also occasionally "buying" sex by providing the "services" nice guys usually offer to women?



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12 Jan 2013, 6:35 am

Shau wrote:
blue_bean wrote:
Yes, it does sound like a transaction similar to prostitution. And the "friendship" would end up totally superficial, emotionally empty and hardly fulfilling.

It's not that the guy is deceptive about his intentions (I mean, what sociable female doesn't have at least one male friend who wants to bone her at any given time?), it's about things turning out to be totally one-sided due to him only pretending to care about her when she thought she had a genuine trusting friend.


What's your take on the situation where a guy is interested in friendship, and also occasionally "buying" sex by providing the "services" nice guys usually offer to women?


What kinda services?



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12 Jan 2013, 6:41 am

blue_bean wrote:
Shau wrote:
blue_bean wrote:
Yes, it does sound like a transaction similar to prostitution. And the "friendship" would end up totally superficial, emotionally empty and hardly fulfilling.

It's not that the guy is deceptive about his intentions (I mean, what sociable female doesn't have at least one male friend who wants to bone her at any given time?), it's about things turning out to be totally one-sided due to him only pretending to care about her when she thought she had a genuine trusting friend.


What's your take on the situation where a guy is interested in friendship, and also occasionally "buying" sex by providing the "services" nice guys usually offer to women?


What kinda services?


Like taking them out shopping...? Buying them stuff?



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12 Jan 2013, 6:47 am

i don't really understand how friendship could be considered a service if both parties are benefiting equally. they are getting providing friendship and getting... friendship. samesies.


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Shau
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12 Jan 2013, 6:52 am

blue_bean wrote:
What kinda services?


The usual "nice guy" stuff. Being the shoulder to cry on when the bf is being mean and she breaks up with him, going with her shopping, driving her to places...uhh.....

I gotta admit, I'm not incredibly familiar with the ins and outs of being a "nice guy" myself, I was hoping the womenfolk did.

hyperlexian wrote:
i don't really understand how friendship could be considered a service if both parties are benefiting equally. they are getting providing friendship and getting... friendship. samesies.


All human interaction is a transaction. You ought to know this better than most, being so well-versed in science as you are.



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12 Jan 2013, 6:57 am

^^^no, i don't agree that all human interaction is a transaction. not every scientist agrees with that model, you know. but for the sake of argument, even looking at it under those terms, a friendship is an equal transaction so no further services are required.


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Shau
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12 Jan 2013, 7:02 am

hyperlexian wrote:
^^^no, i don't agree that all human interaction is a transaction. not every scientist agrees with that model, you know. but for the sake of argument, even looking at it under those terms, a friendship is an equal transaction so no further services are required.


I'd love to get into the debate about how game theory and natural selection pretty much describe all of biology, but perhaps we can do that in another thread. Now, I think you're misunderstanding Situation B. You have friendship for friendship, but the "nice guy" wants to throw in a bit of extra niceness into the equation to be balanced by sex on the other side. How do you feel about a situation like that?



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12 Jan 2013, 7:04 am

Shau wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^no, i don't agree that all human interaction is a transaction. not every scientist agrees with that model, you know. but for the sake of argument, even looking at it under those terms, a friendship is an equal transaction so no further services are required.


I'd love to get into the debate about how game theory and natural selection pretty much describe all of biology, but perhaps we can do that in another thread. Now, I think you're misunderstanding Situation B. You have friendship for friendship, but the "nice guy" wants to throw in a bit of extra niceness into the equation to be balanced by sex on the other side. How do you feel about a situation like that?

that doesn't really make sense. there isn't "extra niceness" that can be added to friendship, that i am aware of.


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Shau
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12 Jan 2013, 7:15 am

hyperlexian wrote:
That doesn't really make sense. there isn't "extra niceness" that can be added to friendship, that i am aware of.


Surely you're not the type of person to be taken advantage of by others, are you? It's not hard to internally quantify (even if only qualitatively) the amount of "friendship dollars" you're bringing to the "friendship table" in the form of time, effort, and money. In this scenario, the "nice guy" is adding a few extra "friendship dollars" with the intention of it being paid back in the form of sex.



hyperlexian
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12 Jan 2013, 7:17 am

Shau wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
That doesn't really make sense. there isn't "extra niceness" that can be added to friendship, that i am aware of.


Surely you're not the type of person to be taken advantage of by others, are you? It's not hard to internally quantify (even if only qualitatively) the amount of "friendship dollars" you're bringing to the "friendship table" in the form of time, effort, and money.

i'm confused by what you're trying to say, so i'll let someone else answer. this doesn't make any sense to me. friends are friends, they do stuff for each other. i don't calculate my friendships according to internal scales and measures. maybe other people do, so they'll get what you mean. some people are very giving, others are not. that's how people are, but that doesn't mean others must match them.


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12 Jan 2013, 7:21 am

I dunno. I like to treat my female friends like they're one of the guys if I consider them truly friends. I get the feeling a nice guy would not do this but act like their gay best friend and constantly do favors for them they wouldn't otherwise do for their other friends (namely guy friends). I admit I was guilty of this in my teen years and early adulthood, but we live and learn.

So maybe not "extra niceness" as such...but more along the lines of being a Superfriend to the girl..there is usually a touch of insincerity to it. It would explain why girls can be rude to overly nice, though intrusive, guys.

About those that just like to be nice to women in general and feel like you're getting curbed for no good reason. The line between chivalry and creepy can be blurry, but also prejudiced if the guy isn't good looking or charming to the one receiving attention/kindness. On top of this, placing the women on a pedestal or hangman's noose is subconsciously affecting your behavior around women, and I guess "women's intuition" can tell you're a bit intense when it comes to women.

Regarding the comments about the scenario of a guy needing to be friends before lovers - nothing wrong with that, but liking someone then deciding to friend them in vein of reaching the lovers stage without making it clear you like them (with actual words) is pretty much the same thing the trademark Nice Guys do.