What do men want?
The_Face_of_Boo
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Age: 42
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Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,091
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
blue_bean wrote:
Quote:
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections.
Taking care of their skin by what way? Diet and lifestyle? Or by products (like Clarins)?
Foreskin paste, it makes your skin healthy.
They cut our dicks so they make your face looks better.
blue_bean wrote:
Quote:
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections.
Taking care of their skin by what way? Diet and lifestyle? Or by products (like Clarins)?
I just wash my face with a flannel and hot water every morning and night; no soap at all
I don't smoke and only drink occasionally
I have good skin but if I went around in public with no make-up on the average person acts like I'm some down and out
who's let themself go! Lol
ie there's strong societal pressure on women to wear make-up as that's the norm
I look washed out and a bit ill without make-up so it adds colour to my face
I don't wear it unless I'm going out or receiving visitors though as it's put on for other peoples' benefit mainly, not mine
really as it doesn't bother me how I look when in the house - it's not my concern
Going out in public, for me is like some constant test of how feminine/pretty you are - are you feminine enough? and the answer off many people is often 'no'
So the makeup is my way of trying to look more feminine
there can be more positive reactions if I wear a low cut or figure revealing top but I find the attention that draws is unpleasant
and it's also not consistent anyway.
it feels like false attention as it's predicated on most men's inability not to be drawn to looking at a woman's body if she puts it on display! ie it's cheap attention that means nothing!
I remember once wearing a summer skirt and t-shirt when I walked to my Aunts house in Summer
I had to walk past two men on the other side of the road fixing a car
As I am very self-conscious and was paranoid about whether they were staring at me I looked briefly across at them and one of them said as I walked on - "We're not looking at you!" Lol
But he must have been if he saw me look over!
So imo that was very confusing - were they saying, 'Don't try and get our attention even though you did get our attention' or what??
uwmonkdm wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
in that paper, they are discussing both sexual assault and sexual harassment in a workplace setting. not sure why you had difficulty with that. you were talking about women getting into "trouble". men's thoughts about women are not "trouble", obviously; it is their actions that are trouble (including rape, which you specifically stated in your posts), which is why this paper applies.
that sentence that i omitted simply added that sometimes it really makes no difference what women wear, and that certain men don't care what women are wearing before they harass or rape them, but you got it wrong - there is NO connection between what women wear and whether they will be raped. so your sentence didn't actually help your argument - it weakened it further.
that sentence that i omitted simply added that sometimes it really makes no difference what women wear, and that certain men don't care what women are wearing before they harass or rape them, but you got it wrong - there is NO connection between what women wear and whether they will be raped. so your sentence didn't actually help your argument - it weakened it further.
No one's talking about rape. I've never said "I want a wife who dresses modestly so she doesn't get raped" ... It is HER mindset of getting off on the attention that she'd have to be an idiot not to notice that she's getting, that turns me off.
The rest of this all snowballed out of that statement, I'm not even sure what's going on anymore but I'm done arguing about it.
i quoted your actual words where you mention "trouble" and "rape", so i an not talking about anything that you did not directly say. i am not quoting what anyone else implied or stated - only your exact words. so if you said something you didn't mean, then you should choose your words more carefully.
you cannot know anyone else's mindset, so you are assuming far too much about a woman's intentions by looking at how she is dressed. some may have intentions like that, and others do not. if you assume that ALL woman who dress like that do, that is a construction of your own mind and has nothing to do with those women at all. you are manufacturing a universal mindset based on how some women may think, and that is clearly your own problem and not theirs.
of course, it's fine if you don't want to date women who dress a certain way. but if you choose to paint all women who wear makeup or certain clothing as having certain motivations, you must be made aware that you are not correct in your assumptions. your conclusions say a lot more about you than they do about the women you are talking about.
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hyperlexian wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
in that paper, they are discussing both sexual assault and sexual harassment in a workplace setting. not sure why you had difficulty with that. you were talking about women getting into "trouble". men's thoughts about women are not "trouble", obviously; it is their actions that are trouble (including rape, which you specifically stated in your posts), which is why this paper applies.
that sentence that i omitted simply added that sometimes it really makes no difference what women wear, and that certain men don't care what women are wearing before they harass or rape them, but you got it wrong - there is NO connection between what women wear and whether they will be raped. so your sentence didn't actually help your argument - it weakened it further.
that sentence that i omitted simply added that sometimes it really makes no difference what women wear, and that certain men don't care what women are wearing before they harass or rape them, but you got it wrong - there is NO connection between what women wear and whether they will be raped. so your sentence didn't actually help your argument - it weakened it further.
No one's talking about rape. I've never said "I want a wife who dresses modestly so she doesn't get raped" ... It is HER mindset of getting off on the attention that she'd have to be an idiot not to notice that she's getting, that turns me off.
The rest of this all snowballed out of that statement, I'm not even sure what's going on anymore but I'm done arguing about it.
i quoted your actual words where you mention "trouble" and "rape", so i an not talking about anything that you did not directly say. i am not quoting what anyone else implied or stated - only your exact words. so if you said something you didn't mean, then you should choose your words more carefully.
you cannot know anyone else's mindset, so you are assuming far too much about a woman's intentions by looking at how she is dressed. some may have intentions like that, and others do not. if you assume that ALL woman who dress like that do, that is a construction of your own mind and has nothing to do with those women at all. you are manufacturing a universal mindset based on how some women may think, and that is clearly your own problem and not theirs.
of course, it's fine if you don't want to date women who dress a certain way. but if you choose to paint all women who wear makeup or certain clothing as having certain motivations, you must be made aware that you are not correct in your assumptions. your conclusions say a lot more about you than they do about the women you are talking about.
I must preface anything I say with the fact that I do respect your opinion - you sound like you can form an actual thought and explain yourself.
I know there are exceptions to everything, but I can't change the fact that I see society this way.
These quotes are things that I find problematic, that I was talking about
Quote:
ie there's strong societal pressure on women to wear make-up as that's the norm
Quote:
Going out in public, for me is like some constant test of how feminine/pretty you are
Quote:
it feels like false attention as it's predicated on most men's inability not to be drawn to looking at a woman's body if she puts it on display! ie it's cheap attention that means nothing!
These are issues in society, and I'm just putting them on display and saying that it is not the fault of the men, or the women... it's the mass media and whatnot that represents "us", and that we buy into - that's the only reason it thrives.
I dunno, call me anti-society I guess.
I'll leave it at this;
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUq-U6aRDos[/youtube]
I just use a pore cleansing wash every few days (too harsh to use every day)....and that's about it. I'm lucky if I wear makeup several times a year. Not that I'm good at putting it on anyway; It's luck of the draw for me. Plus my skintone is a funny shade between ivory and light beige so I have to mix two foundation shades together.
I mostly put on makeup for linedance socials; 80 middle aged women and one man on the floor.....He's 75.
nessa238 wrote:
As I am very self-conscious and was paranoid about whether they were staring at me I looked briefly across at them and one of them said as I walked on - "We're not looking at you!" Lol
But he must have been if he saw me look over!
So imo that was very confusing - were they saying, 'Don't try and get our attention even though you did get our attention' or what??
But he must have been if he saw me look over!
So imo that was very confusing - were they saying, 'Don't try and get our attention even though you did get our attention' or what??
My guess is that they thought that you had caught them looking, but, in these days of paranoia, they were immediately getting defensive and just trying to pre-empt the anticipated creep-shaming.
Gavin de Becker wrote:
“Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death.”
Meems wrote:
The problem isn't the clothing, it's the attitude that the clothing indicates something about her self-respect.
The way women dress shouldn't be based on what men think, and men shouldn't think it is, and it's problematic to assume a woman's clothing indicates how she views herself and thus how she should be treated.
Do you not see the connection? It's not that women shouldn't dress a specific way because of how men might act, it's that men shouldn't act that way, and that's the problem, not the clothing....
When I talked about men, I was talking about your specific points that men are going to react a specific way to clothing and thus women who wear those clothes have no self-respect, and you're clearly implying it makes a woman more likely to be subject to sexual comments and attention. The problem with that reaction to the way a woman is dressed is NOT her responsibility....
I love attention from both men and women as long as it's respectful, like not touching me without knowing for sure it's OK, or making kissing noises at me or saying what they want to do with me. I love socializing, but I'm on the same page as Luvsterriers at this point and can't stand any scene involving alcohol anymore. I do also struggle with attracting the kind of people who aren't drunken d-bag types every goddamn night. I cover pretty much any area of my body that is going to garner attention when I go out and I don't go to bars....
The way women dress shouldn't be based on what men think, and men shouldn't think it is, and it's problematic to assume a woman's clothing indicates how she views herself and thus how she should be treated.
Do you not see the connection? It's not that women shouldn't dress a specific way because of how men might act, it's that men shouldn't act that way, and that's the problem, not the clothing....
When I talked about men, I was talking about your specific points that men are going to react a specific way to clothing and thus women who wear those clothes have no self-respect, and you're clearly implying it makes a woman more likely to be subject to sexual comments and attention. The problem with that reaction to the way a woman is dressed is NOT her responsibility....
I love attention from both men and women as long as it's respectful, like not touching me without knowing for sure it's OK, or making kissing noises at me or saying what they want to do with me. I love socializing, but I'm on the same page as Luvsterriers at this point and can't stand any scene involving alcohol anymore. I do also struggle with attracting the kind of people who aren't drunken d-bag types every goddamn night. I cover pretty much any area of my body that is going to garner attention when I go out and I don't go to bars....
I have absolutely no idea where Miss Meems is spending her time, but I have the impression that she is going to cheap pickup joints full of drunk men who are hoping to get a little coitus, dresses to give men boners, and gets annoyed when said men act upon their boners.
There are some decent men around, but generally not in those places.
But, to get to the ORIGINAL question about how to dress to attract a man--opinions vary, but I say, yes, be sure that you're at least able to be the cause of a boner. But, at the same time, women have been fairly hard on men: "Don't talk to us! Don't look at us! Don't touch us! You dirty RAPIST! You're SCUM! Piss off, Creep!" to the extent that many nice, decent men, who would otherwise potentially be interested, are quite reluctant to approach women. I think that it is now largely up to women to do the approaching, to ask the man on a date, and to initiate intimate contact. For the man, this is a lot safer.
Wolfheart wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
No, YOUR image is distorted. Do you know who makeup was invented for? Prostitutes.
Ancient Egyptian rulers used makeup, I don't think they were prostitutes.
No, they were just the most egotistical people ever to have lived who believed themselves to be Gods .... what a coincidence.
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections. I think sometimes make up can definitely overemphasis beauty and even magazines can overexaggerate and create unrealistics goals or expectations for young girls.
I agree some make up looks fine but I prefer it to look natural or at least a light amount of make up like this. I think it looks much more better in the girl below and the girl below seems like someone I would have a white picket lifestyle with.
Her name is Isabel Lucas and she shows why natural beauty can be so much more attractive than made up artificial beauty if done right.
those women require just as much beauty maintenance to achieve that look (and often just as much makeup), it is just that the result looks different. so basically you want women to put the same amount of effort in but to look more "natural" at the end of it. in a sense the message is no "better" for young girls because the girls are still expected to do just as much work to achieve beauty standards, and they are still catering to men's tastes.
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uwmonkdm wrote:
Lilya wrote:
That is very offensive... First of all, make up has been used for milleniums, by both men and women depending on the trend, and far more by nobility than women less able to afford it. I have been a teenage girl once and I started wearing make up at 13. It was my savior with acne at the time and I haven't gone back since. I don't mind not wearing any, but I much prefer seeing my best features highlighted and imperfections covered. The point in make up is not that it makes a person look like a doll, but that it highlights one's best features. Don't think women are unable to consumerism or size of the industry. There's only one aspect you forget: The industry is this big because there is demand for it and people find certain products actually to be of help. Is the current beauty standard unrealistic? Yes. But that doesn't stop women to be able to feel beautiful or good about themselves.
Wearing next to nothing is something you'd generally see done by a portion of young girls on a club night. If you think of an average woman and especially a "style conscious" one, that is not exactly the look they go for. There are people who have questionable outfit choices and often for wrong reasons (men and women) but I do find it insulting that you point the finger at whole female population to be at blame. Also, what "fashionistas" do, is not to go for every trend, but have their own strong sense of style and add a few contemporary accessories or key items when new trends come along.
Dita von Teese dresses up very classy as well as acts, talks and has the mannerism of a true lady. I don't have anything against her choice of career, in which she has also had phenomenal success at. I don't get how I am supposed be proud of my womanhood, if I didn't appreciate it? Woman's body is not the enemy or "evil".
And yes, your ideas are distorted. No one forces you to like TOWIE type of style, but you are in your posts painting a generalized image that all women have the main concern of pleasing men and are asking for trouble with any efforts to look better.
Wearing next to nothing is something you'd generally see done by a portion of young girls on a club night. If you think of an average woman and especially a "style conscious" one, that is not exactly the look they go for. There are people who have questionable outfit choices and often for wrong reasons (men and women) but I do find it insulting that you point the finger at whole female population to be at blame. Also, what "fashionistas" do, is not to go for every trend, but have their own strong sense of style and add a few contemporary accessories or key items when new trends come along.
Dita von Teese dresses up very classy as well as acts, talks and has the mannerism of a true lady. I don't have anything against her choice of career, in which she has also had phenomenal success at. I don't get how I am supposed be proud of my womanhood, if I didn't appreciate it? Woman's body is not the enemy or "evil".
And yes, your ideas are distorted. No one forces you to like TOWIE type of style, but you are in your posts painting a generalized image that all women have the main concern of pleasing men and are asking for trouble with any efforts to look better.
Let me make something clear, I have never once said anything about "ALL" women. If I thought all women were this way, I would be planning a long life of solitude.
Makeup has been used for a long time, and you were either a shaman, rich, or a prostitute when you wore it.
You have just made it clear that a lot of women are brainwashed by the media and cosmetic industry to feel as if makeup is a necessity to "hide one's imperfections". As I have said, you are buying into the idea of a perfect face and body, that does not exist. You acknowledge it doesn't exist, yet you say "oh, well, we can still try to get there". The whole point is to stop trying to create a damn illusion or mask to hide behind, this actually has psychological implications... on women and men.
There may be some positive ones, but they are pure egotistical and materialistic, and the negatives far outweigh the positives.
Just because there is a demand for something, that doesn't make it any less messed up. I hear heroine is in high demand too.
The fact that you think someone who poses nude to make money is classy, and a true lady is enough for me to just ignore the rest of the BS you're saying.
You need to learn how to read and interpret information if you believe my opinion is that women's main concern is to "please men". If that was my opinion, I would be suggesting that you walk around naked 24/7. That will please the majority of men.
Quote:
asking for trouble with any efforts to look better
This sums up my entire view of what you're saying.
You are quite forwardly telling a woman that she is not good enough the way she is, and she needs to make an effort to "look better".
I'm done, this is worse than convincing a creationist the earth is older than 6,000 years
You definitely are pointing the finger at ALL women who are wearing make-up and referring that they are stupid, vain and ignorant. That is insulting. Wanting to look better doesn't have to be due to the "perfect image" that you refer to. It's biological that both men and women are attracted to people portraying signs of good health, such as good skin, good hair, good teeth etc. According to your definition people shouldn't buy shampoos or toothbrushes either because they are manufactured and advertised by major "evil" corporations. Most women wear make up, most women go for natural look with make up and would never apologise for wearing any or consider being "egoistical" for doing so. You are at loss here. Every person has the right to love and respect themselves. It's wrong to slander a person who takes care of themselves or pampers themselves within reasonable lines. I am attracted to both men and women who are groomed and do take care of themselves. Every person is beautiful as they are, but there is absolutely nothing wrong at highlighting one's best assets.
What you are saying about DVT is enough to confirm how narrow-minded your views are about the whole topic. Here's a message for you: Women are far more than just pretty faces or bodies. Also pretty faces or bodies are not "evil". You would do yourself a major favour by looking women skin-deep before judging them just by appearances.
_________________
It's not the sinful, but the stupid who are our shame - Oscar Wilde
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
No, YOUR image is distorted. Do you know who makeup was invented for? Prostitutes.
Ancient Egyptian rulers used makeup, I don't think they were prostitutes.
No, they were just the most egotistical people ever to have lived who believed themselves to be Gods .... what a coincidence.
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections. I think sometimes make up can definitely overemphasis beauty and even magazines can overexaggerate and create unrealistics goals or expectations for young girls.
I agree some make up looks fine but I prefer it to look natural or at least a light amount of make up like this. I think it looks much more better in the girl below and the girl below seems like someone I would have a white picket lifestyle with.
Her name is Isabel Lucas and she shows why natural beauty can be so much more attractive than made up artificial beauty if done right.
those women require just as much beauty maintenance to achieve that look (and often just as much makeup), it is just that the result looks different. so basically you want women to put the same amount of effort in but to look more "natural" at the end of it. in a sense the message is no "better" for young girls because the girls are still expected to do just as much work to achieve beauty standards, and they are still catering to men's tastes.
If Wolfheart had replied to me that was the point I was going to make about men wanting women to have expensive skincare routines instead of wearing makeup.
Same shallow standard, different smell.
blue_bean wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
No, YOUR image is distorted. Do you know who makeup was invented for? Prostitutes.
Ancient Egyptian rulers used makeup, I don't think they were prostitutes.
No, they were just the most egotistical people ever to have lived who believed themselves to be Gods .... what a coincidence.
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections. I think sometimes make up can definitely overemphasis beauty and even magazines can overexaggerate and create unrealistics goals or expectations for young girls.
I agree some make up looks fine but I prefer it to look natural or at least a light amount of make up like this. I think it looks much more better in the girl below and the girl below seems like someone I would have a white picket lifestyle with.
Her name is Isabel Lucas and she shows why natural beauty can be so much more attractive than made up artificial beauty if done right.
those women require just as much beauty maintenance to achieve that look (and often just as much makeup), it is just that the result looks different. so basically you want women to put the same amount of effort in but to look more "natural" at the end of it. in a sense the message is no "better" for young girls because the girls are still expected to do just as much work to achieve beauty standards, and they are still catering to men's tastes.
If Wolfheart had replied to me that was the point I was going to make about men wanting women to have expensive skincare routines instead of wearing makeup.
Same shallow standard, different smell.
Very good points. Achieving a flawless "natural" look is often far more expensive than all made up look.
_________________
It's not the sinful, but the stupid who are our shame - Oscar Wilde
Wolfheart wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
No, YOUR image is distorted. Do you know who makeup was invented for? Prostitutes.
Ancient Egyptian rulers used makeup, I don't think they were prostitutes.
No, they were just the most egotistical people ever to have lived who believed themselves to be Gods .... what a coincidence.
I do agree that I wish more girls took care of their skin instead of just relying on make up to hide their imperfections. I think sometimes make up can definitely overemphasis beauty and even magazines can overexaggerate and create unrealistics goals or expectations for young girls.
I agree some make up looks fine but I prefer it to look natural or at least a light amount of make up like this. I think it looks much more better in the girl below and the girl below seems like someone I would have a white picket lifestyle with.
Her name is Isabel Lucas and she shows why natural beauty can be so much more attractive than made up artificial beauty if done right.
While I tend to agree with you that subtle makeup is better than loads and loads of make-up i'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make with: ''natural beauty can be so much more attractive than artificial beauty'' ...I mean, that's kind of obvious! I would love to be naturally beautiful too. Me and like the rest of the planet pretty much. But if you don't have the genes...you don't have the genes. It's hardly something you can 'do right'. Some people can look exceptionally good with minimal effort but it's hardly down to any great skill of taking care of themselves or their aptitude at applying 'just' the right amount of makeup, it's because they were born that way.
ArrantPariah wrote:
luvsterriers wrote:
Try looking at Pitbull Hotel Room Service
or Don't Stop the Party.
or Don't Stop the Party.
If your goal is to get me horny, then it is working.
I like the outfits. But, for a guy like me, I would probably think that you thought that I was out of your league, and that you were looking for someone a lot flashier. You would have to take a lot of the initiative initially, but then I'd be counting my lucky stars until our first date.
Sorry didn't mean to make you be that. I just thought if women dressed like those women in the music videos that the men would go crazy over them. But then I asked a older person same question. Women who dress like that just want sex and men use them for that. If a man is looking for a potential wife looks isn't that important. It's the beauty within. A so so looking woman can be so caring to others, but a very hot woman can be a very mean and cusses like a sailor. For me tattoos on a man do interest me depending on what it says. Not a whole lot though. I don't like the tattoos say on Travis Barker from Blink 182. Some Christian bands have tattoos which are great. Pitbull's tattoos are good too. I like men who work out and take good care of their body. No exposing belly for one. That's a huge turn off for me. I would like to go work out with a potential boyfriend. Kayaking sounds like a great idea. I never tried that. I'm doing zumba in few weeks, but I think that's mainly for women. I do like men who are compassionate about animals too since I'm a huge dog lover. I don't like the club or bar scenes since it's loud and the smoke irritates me. Some dance clubs I have gone to the women look like whores. If a man is close to his parents that's a huge plus for me. A good family background is always very important to me. He doesn't have to be same religion as me as song as he is some Christian. If I'm out on first date and he wants sex, bye bye I will tell him. I don't put out at all. I will remain that way till my wedding night IF it ever happens. This is probably why it's hard to find a man since I don't put out at all.
_________________
Anna
If you're not happy with yourself, you'll never be happy with somebody else. (Don Omar)
Last edited by luvsterriers on 11 Mar 2013, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote:
According to your definition people shouldn't buy shampoos or toothbrushes either because they are manufactured and advertised by major "evil" corporations.
Brushing my teeth and washing my hair doesn't have a psychological effect on me.
Quote:
What you are saying about DVT is enough to confirm how narrow-minded your views are about the whole topic. Here's a message for you: Women are far more than just pretty faces or bodies. Also pretty faces or bodies are not "evil". You would do yourself a major favour by looking women skin-deep before judging them just by appearances.
So let me get this straight:
1. Women are more than their bodies
2. Don't judge a woman by her appearance
Dita von Teese wears more makeup and dresses herself up in a role more than most women, she poses nude, she literally uses her body and image to make money.
Are you saying she is a good role model for young girls? "This is how you should behave if you'd like to be respected as a lady" ?
That's sad.
Quote:
Every person is beautiful as they are, but there is absolutely nothing wrong at highlighting one's best assets.
If everyone were truly beautiful, there would be no need to "highlight your best assets"... that's logically backwards.