Is it wrong to cheat if no one finds out?

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There's a common local saying that says: مش معروف اير مين بطيز مين


Mclavera, please translate it, literally.

Ok, you want to leave the getting caught part out which is extremely important, fine.

So let's put it simple: if I agreed to be part of a committed monogamous relationship and didn't keep my promises (this one or others) I would loose all self respect and see myself as a worthless coward even if my partner didn't find out. How far you go and what you do when you know there won't be any consequences is a very good barometer for someone's character.

Even on a purely utilitarian basis, and even if harm is your only criterion for moral decisions, the logical conclusion is that you should not cheat on your partner.

1) As others have pointed out, the risk of discovery of cheating will not be zero. For starters, how good is your judgement of social situations? If it is just half as bad as mine, you are likely to misjudge the risk of discovery. So put a big, fat error margin around your estimate. That takes the range you must consider well above zero. Next, how much control do you think you have now and will have in future over your partner's brother in law? Perhaps in a few years he will embrace Jesus, and feel that he must confess all his sins to be born again. As a good utilitarian, you should integrate the product of harm and probability of discovery over the range of possible probabilities to calculate the average expected harm. That is what must go into your utilitarian calculations. It is impossible for that to be zero, and my estimate would be that is is intolerably far above zero. Next, repeat that calculation for your partner's brother in law and his wife. To go ahead, he must treat his wife with the same contempt. And how good a liar is he? Good enough to deceive his wife for the rest of their lives? If he is that good a liar, do you want to trust him to be honest with you? Do you want to trust him with that destructive a secret?

2) You would treat the partner you say you love as someone who doesn't deserve honesty from you, whom you don't respect enough to let him make an informed decision on something that is important to him. I think that is harm in itself. And once you have treated him with that measure of contempt on something important, do you think you can compartmentalise so thoroughly that you won't do the same thing again on less important stuff? And that he will never notice that you do it? Again, repeat that for your partner's brother in law and his wife.

3) Humans are prone to wishful thinking. We often believe things because we want them to be true. I have not seen any data that aspies are exempt. So when you estimate probability of discovery and degree of harm, have you tried correcting for the bias caused by you wishing there were no risk, so you can justify going ahead?

If you want still other logical argument, you can find it here: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/01/david_rose_on_t.html. The whole podcast is a discussion of the argument that harm avoidance should not be the only moral criterion.

(curtseys) I have no idea what that means, but I take it as a great compliment.




You're pretty sure ?
Why do you feel so sure ?

And, let's say that he is massively attracted to you....
What makes you think he would want to act on that by sneaking about behind his brother's back ?
Or his brother-in-law, or whatever he's supposed to be (it's all got a bit confusing regarding who's who to be honest).

If he's a decent and honest sort of fellow, then isn't more likely that he'd tell you to bugger off.... and any feelings of attraction would turn to feelings of disgust ?

Ok so these are things that you think are wrong then. I'll say this
If you get caught you will hurt people.
You are abusing you relationship so you are abusing someone

You are breaking your own rules of what you think is right.

Last edited by MR_BOGAN on 16 Jul 2013, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aside from all the other well made points about how destructive such a course of action is likely to be, and what it says about your character, why are you planning to marry someone you already want to cheat on?

The truth: Don't blame others for your inability to commit. DUH!! ! It is just the way it is. Eliza

Would it be wrong if half the women on Wrong Planet (and any guys who'd like to join in) decide to bang RudeGoldberg's fiancee.... if we all make sure to sneak about behind her back, so that she never finds out ?

It's not about the risk of being caught. It's about the fact that you made an agreement with this person. It's about keeping your word. If you cannot keep your word, then you go to the person with who you made the agreement and revise the said agreement. Since it involves two of you, if you unilaterally make a decision which affects the both of you, that is the quickest way to destroy any kind of respect or trust, and therefore destroy the relationship.

At the end of the day - it's about having the guts to be honest with both yourself and your partner, no matter what the situation is. If you can't do that then you shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place. Without such a basic thing as honesty, you cannot have any of the other important things necessary to making a relationship work - trust, respect etc.

Serious question to you: If you do it, and if you get away with it - are you seriously still going to be able to respect your partner afterwards?
Would it bother you if he did the same thing to you?

Last edited by Kjas on 17 Jul 2013, 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

You are thinking too much about it. All the arguments I am reading is that you are not considering the feelings of other people involved and the consequences for getting caught. But like someone else mentioned earlier, if you really desire it, I have a feeling that no one here is going to stop you. As it stands now, the only words that will stop you will be "no" from the brother in law.

I can't even believe what I just read. No offense, OP. Of course it's cheating even if he doesn't find out. I hope, for your sake, that if you do go through with it that you don't feel guilty afterward. I hope it doesn't backfire on the two of you, cause it surely could.

The argument is, that people will never be able to trust you again. So when its about emotions, so sure we say "Oh, I wil always, always love you and neverevernever will I stop loving you." but we know that its kiddiestuff. So sure, we all hope that it stays that way, but we are simply physical human beings and sadly, sometimes we have to face, that our emotions have changed. As I said, I dont see anything to blame about that.

But we normally also tell ourselves, to at least be honest to each other and respect ourselves. And instead of love, this is something we control with our brain, not with animalic instinctive brainparst that are controllingl love and desire.

So emotions and desire for someone else, make you only a human being.

But not being hones and disrespecting your engaged one, would make me question myself, why you want to be engaged with him, if you dont have any respect for him. For me it would as well be a sign that there can be no true love for your engaged one, because I think if I truly love someone, then I dont want to treat him as a lesser being, as someone that doesnt deserve to be treated honestly and with respect.

So if my partner falls honestly in love with someone else that he has deep emotions for, I would feel very sad for that happening, but thats life. That can be forgiven. But someone being not honest and treating me without respect, is someone that is done on purpose. And someone that decides to disrespect me on purpose, I dont need in my life. Neither as partner, nor as Ex-partner, nor as friend, nor as relative... If I knew of someone treating others like that, I wouldnt want to spend time with that person, anyway if its about a friend of same sex or whatever. Because I know that this person only goes for her own advantages, and the moment I am not anymore of an advantage, she will treat me like s**t.

Maybe right now, your partners brother in law, would be silent about it. What if you get into arguing? What if you depart again? Will he care for your secret as well, when he falls in love with another women? When he is drunk and is in a bars with co-workers, that he thinks that they dont know you, then they get drunk again with some friends of yours and suddenly one of the coworkers friends is a friend of a relative of yours? Most cheatings are discovered sooner or later. And then many people dont want to have contact with you anymore, because out of your behavior, they will expect you to threat them as well, so spending time with you, anyway in which relation, is simply wasted for them. Being a friend to you is wasted, because the moment you wont have an advantage from it, you will not be a friend anymore. So being a friend to you is wasted time. If I found out, that someone treated his partner in this way, I would think he/she would treat our normal friendship like this even more.

If you are anyway only engaged...I simply dont get it, why you dont simply end the engagement and try to get into relation with your partners in law? I simply dont see sense in that behavior. If it comes out, people will be hurted, and you will face lots of misadvantages. And I simply dont get it, why someone would want that, only to avoid the minor misadvantage of going to your engaged one and telling him, that you want to end the engagement? That you are a human and that your emotion can change, is something he has to face. But you bein not honest and disrespecting him, is simply based on your desicion.

There have been so many posts, I don't remember... But did anyone mention the possibility that the brother in law will reject you and tell someone and you will lose your fiance, all for nothing?

I think that you seem to be very focused on what you want, and your marriage is not likely to last anyway. It is very difficult to be married. It requires compromise and respect. Sometimes just plain white-knuckled determination. You have the determination to get what you want, but little else.
Don't believe the movies and songs - Love is NOT all you need. That is such a monstrous lie.

Either your fiance will understand, maybe be willing to have an open marriage, in which case you should tell him up front, and you can have it all, or he won't, and will dump you. It will be easier on everyone if you do this now than if you marry, splice your lives together, maybe have kids, and then divorce because you got found out. Easier, and cheaper. Less painful too. And less selfish.

Why warning her (or him?), that would be the most hilarious thing if it happens.

So you hope her partner is marrying a psychopath?

I know it's inevitable that she will. If she doesn't... I don't know what to say.