The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
05 Dec 2013, 4:27 pm
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The idea that you think I see this as a gender war seems like a form of projection. This is more about me trying to see the rationality behind why one should go out of his/her way to appease someone else for what seems to me to be very trivial things.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
Yeah, I mean is it really that hard to look at the toilet?? Or take it up?? I don't believe it can be an issue, no normal sane human being would make an issue out of it.
Doctor's Advice: Leave the Toilet Seat Up
Quote:
the social norm of putting it down.
So it is a social and probably specific culture's cultural norm after all - that's why all the local women I've told about this spousal debate in the west found the whole thing totally ridiculous and extremely odd.
05 Dec 2013, 4:31 pm
Geekonychus wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The key word there is "only" which you so conveniently ignored.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
If you actually cared about and respected the other person, the fact that it bothers them should be a perfectly valid reason in and of itself.
Still doesn't make sense. If someone I cared about told me to comply with anything for no reason other than that her feelings would otherwise be hurt, how is that a perfectly valid reason? You sound like the kind of person who would enable pathological manipulators to continue doing their thing and encourage their victims to continue to do what they demand.
All in the name of "respect".
05 Dec 2013, 4:34 pm
MCalavera wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The key word there is "only" which you so conveniently ignored.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
If you actually cared about and respected the other person, the fact that it bothers them should be a perfectly valid reason in and of itself.
Still doesn't make sense. If someone I cared about told me to comply with anything for no reason other than that her feelings would otherwise be hurt, how is that a perfectly valid reason? You sound like the kind of person who would enable pathological manipulators to continue doing their thing and encourage their victims to continue to do what they demand.
All in the name of "respect".
BRILLIANT!! ! this bold bit my friend is why we aspies fail at social stuff. In the REAL world, that is THE reason. Ruminate on that one for a while.
05 Dec 2013, 4:37 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The idea that you think I see this as a gender war seems like a form of projection. This is more about me trying to see the rationality behind why one should go out of his/her way to appease someone else for what seems to me to be very trivial things.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
Yeah, I mean is it really that hard to look at the toilet?? Or take it up?? I don't believe it can be an issue, no normal sane human being would make an issue out of it.
Doctor's Advice: Leave the Toilet Seat Up
Quote:
the social norm of putting it down.
So it is a social and probably specific culture's cultural norm after all - that's why all the local women I've told about this spousal debate in the west found the whole thing totally ridiculous and extremely odd.
It probably is. I never had any female who were living in the same house as me ever even whine a little about the toilet seat being up.
If it's for sanitary purposes, then the lid should also be down anyway. I think it's much more reasonable for one's partner to suggest that both the seat and the lid be down after use than for just the seat.
05 Dec 2013, 4:38 pm
leafplant wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The key word there is "only" which you so conveniently ignored.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
If you actually cared about and respected the other person, the fact that it bothers them should be a perfectly valid reason in and of itself.
Still doesn't make sense. If someone I cared about told me to comply with anything for no reason other than that her feelings would otherwise be hurt, how is that a perfectly valid reason? You sound like the kind of person who would enable pathological manipulators to continue doing their thing and encourage their victims to continue to do what they demand.
All in the name of "respect".
BRILLIANT!! ! this bold bit my friend is why we aspies fail at social stuff. In the REAL world, that is THE reason. Ruminate on that one for a while.
Well, it hurts my feelings that you won't bring me a bottle of beer when I'm watching TV. Why are you disrespecting me so much?
05 Dec 2013, 4:41 pm
05 Dec 2013, 4:44 pm
05 Dec 2013, 4:46 pm
leafplant wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The key word there is "only" which you so conveniently ignored.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
And it's not mutual if one side has to comply with the other person's request without a valid reason and the other isn't expected to do so. I also don't see how it is a caring thing to do, rather than being a doormat.
If you actually cared about and respected the other person, the fact that it bothers them should be a perfectly valid reason in and of itself.
Still doesn't make sense. If someone I cared about told me to comply with anything for no reason other than that her feelings would otherwise be hurt, how is that a perfectly valid reason? You sound like the kind of person who would enable pathological manipulators to continue doing their thing and encourage their victims to continue to do what they demand.
All in the name of "respect".
BRILLIANT!! ! this bold bit my friend is why we aspies fail at social stuff. In the REAL world, that is THE reason. Ruminate on that one for a while.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
05 Dec 2013, 4:46 pm
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The idea that you think I see this as a gender war seems like a form of projection. This is more about me trying to see the rationality behind why one should go out of his/her way to appease someone else for what seems to me to be very trivial things.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
Yeah, I mean is it really that hard to look at the toilet?? Or take it up?? I don't believe it can be an issue, no normal sane human being would make an issue out of it.
Doctor's Advice: Leave the Toilet Seat Up
Quote:
the social norm of putting it down.
So it is a social and probably specific culture's cultural norm after all - that's why all the local women I've told about this spousal debate in the west found the whole thing totally ridiculous and extremely odd.
It probably is. I never had any female who were living in the same house as me ever even whine a little about the toilet seat being up.
If it's for sanitary purposes, then the lid should also be down anyway. I think it's much more reasonable for one's partner to suggest that both the seat and the lid be down after use than for just the seat.
Yeah, so probably both Christian and Muslim Lebanese/Arabs don't have this "seat toilet etiquette.
It seems tho, it's a common etiquette for English-speaking countries, and women there are so used to it that they probably jump-flip their asses on the toilet without even looking at it because it's the societal norm for the seat to be down, and when it's up....oops, fire in the hole!! !
While our ladies, like men, adjust the seat accordingly when it needs to because there's no seat norm.
Also, they do not install bidets, so their toilet rooms tend to be smaller and narrower? Still, I don't think this would affect much their vision field on the toilet tho.
05 Dec 2013, 4:56 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The idea that you think I see this as a gender war seems like a form of projection. This is more about me trying to see the rationality behind why one should go out of his/her way to appease someone else for what seems to me to be very trivial things.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
In the case of a toilet seat, if someone demands that the toilet seat be down at all costs, then I'd want to know why exactly this is a problem that only I could solve by complying, and why it is a problem if I don't comply.
If anything, it seems like, in the absence of any valid reason, that this is quite manipulative and no different from being a control freak.
Yeah, I mean is it really that hard to look at the toilet?? Or take it up?? I don't believe it can be an issue, no normal sane human being would make an issue out of it.
Doctor's Advice: Leave the Toilet Seat Up
Quote:
the social norm of putting it down.
So it is a social and probably specific culture's cultural norm after all - that's why all the local women I've told about this spousal debate in the west found the whole thing totally ridiculous and extremely odd.
It probably is. I never had any female who were living in the same house as me ever even whine a little about the toilet seat being up.
If it's for sanitary purposes, then the lid should also be down anyway. I think it's much more reasonable for one's partner to suggest that both the seat and the lid be down after use than for just the seat.
Yeah, so probably both Christian and Muslim Lebanese/Arabs don't have this "seat toilet etiquette.
It seems tho, it's a common etiquette for English-speaking countries, and women there are so used to it that they probably jump-flip their asses on the toilet without even looking at it because it's the societal norm for the seat to be down, and when it's up....oops, fire in the hole!! !
While our ladies, like men, adjust the seat accordingly when it needs to because there's no seat norm.
Also, they do not install bidets, so their toilet rooms tend to be smaller and narrower? Still, I don't think this would affect much their vision field on the toilet tho.
I know in my parent's house here in Australia, there was a bidet and the bathroom contained both the toilet thingy and the tub and shower.
But where I live now, no bidet and toilet room is small and separate from the bathroom.
05 Dec 2013, 4:57 pm
Kjas
Veteran
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
05 Dec 2013, 5:05 pm
Well. If nothing else this thread certainly brought out exactly where everyone on this forum is in terms of social skills. Maybe we should use it as a reference point for future ones. 
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
05 Dec 2013, 5:14 pm
05 Dec 2013, 5:18 pm
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
05 Dec 2013, 5:22 pm
leafplant wrote:
Im not talking about people who are super aware of hygiene and know how to use a bidet.
I'm talking about people who like to wash up using the sink, so you come into your own bathroom and find someone elses poo on the faucets when you go to wash your hands. I can't believe you made me say this. toileting issues are a massive trigger for me. I may have to go and curl up in a ball or rock back and forth for half an hour now.
What kjas said too - and all of this is relevant to living together - people don't even realise how something as small as a routine in the bathroom or whatever can impact on a relationship
I'm talking about people who like to wash up using the sink, so you come into your own bathroom and find someone elses poo on the faucets when you go to wash your hands. I can't believe you made me say this. toileting issues are a massive trigger for me. I may have to go and curl up in a ball or rock back and forth for half an hour now.
What kjas said too - and all of this is relevant to living together - people don't even realise how something as small as a routine in the bathroom or whatever can impact on a relationship
Wait...you mean they use the sink like the bidet..?
05 Dec 2013, 5:23 pm
Kjas wrote:
Well. If nothing else this thread certainly brought out exactly where everyone on this forum is in terms of social skills. Maybe we should use it as a reference point for future ones.
I think it might have more to do with a morality spectrum than anything else.
For me, as someone with high affective empathy, considering a partner or close friend's feelings would be the #1 reason why I would do or not do anything. I'm not nearly as deterred by arbitrary social norms or even legal ones (or truth be told, the feelings of strangers much.) Most of my friends (as well as my partner) also have some combination of ASD, OCD, ADHD so I'm fully aware that something that might not be a big deal for me may well be a huge one (even an obsession) for them and vice versa.
A wonderful thing about being willing to respect and account for peoples feelings, is that it becomes mutual. If you aren't willing to accomidate others you don't deserve it back. You're only a doormat if you get nothing in return.
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