How can I initiate a date?

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goldfish21
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28 Jun 2014, 11:02 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

The reason is that this thread is about how to date, initiated by a man. Almost immediately a man suggested that he go harass random women. Much of the rest of this thread has been about why that in particular is a bad idea.

False. He suggested that people strike up a friendly conversation with a simple compliment. Compliments are not harassment. Most of the rest of this thread has been people trying to get you to comprehend this.

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vickygleitz
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28 Jun 2014, 11:06 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

Jono wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

No, it's not a numbers game. Most people are not playing a numbers game in dating. That's part of why PUA behavior's so loathsome.

Whether someone consciously plays a numbers game or not, the statistics still apply. The more people someone meets, the more likely they'll meet someone they're compatible with in whatever capacity they're looking for. It doesn't have to be a numbers game that someone is keeping track and score of for the mathematical principles to apply.

Most people have an intuitive understanding of the rules of social interaction. Therefore, most people have the social skills to attract people of the opposite sex without scaring them or making them feel uncomfortable and that's how they do it successfully, so it's not a numbers game, it's about social skills.

Right. Most people also have networks of friends, which is how they meet people if they're not meeting online. Friends set up other friends, and they do that based on knowledge of who the people actually are, what they like, what they might be looking for, etc. They also serve as screeners: they're not going to set up a friend with a guy they know is a perv, and they're not going to set up a bright-future nice guy with a friend who's a lovely person but totally a shambles in life, addiction problems, etc.

NO! MOST AUTISTICS DO NOT HAVE NETWORKS OF FRIENDS. PLEASE DO NOT ADVISE ON ISSUES YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

Quote:

goldfish21 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

Why you assume you know what's reasonable for women to think and feel, and how you figure you're qualified to tell thousands of us how stupid we're being in overreacting to what you've decided is nothing -- well, that's something else.

No. I'm just telling the 2 or 3 of you. Further, how ironically hypocritical of you to say I shouldn't have an opinion on how you're reacting to these things, yet somehow you feel you're The authority on what all women want or do not want. Newsflash: You are not all women. You are an Autistic women with different views on social interactions and comfort levels with others than the majority of the population. You may also have been a victim of some sort of sex crime and thus carry some deep rooted PTSD symptoms that affect your paradigms. You do not speak for all women. Stop pretending that you do - it's offensive and insulting to others who you assume you speak for.

She's not autistic, she's actually neurotypical and is on this forum because she has a family member with Asperger's. Therefore, she has the same views on social interactions and comfort levels as other NT's. Nice try though and how ironic it is for you as an autistic gay man to tell others how neurotypical straight women must see things.

Well, I've said expressly a few times that not only is this not about all women, but about many women, and how to find out what a woman you're interested in dating actually likes and wants. It involves using words, though goldfish is resistant to that.

Also, Jono, thanks, but I just never got around to changing my profile info, partly because nothing there seems to fit well -- I'm undiagnosed sort-of AS-ish, I guess, though I manage...well, better than most NTs, actually. But yeah, I'll claim a deck chair on the spectrum. I do after all spend ungodly time arguing relentlessly online with strangers.

is ASish like being pregnantish? You are or you are not. You have not been diagnosed, or self diagnosed, but suspect you are somewhat] but say you do NT better,more succesfully in every way than most NTs? Are you for real? If I were forced to make a choice, I would bet the ranch that you were a malignant narcissisitic rather than an Autistic.

tarantella64
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29 Jun 2014, 12:22 am

goldfish21 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

I think you've been reading a different thread. For no reason I can divine, you seem intent on ignoring both the many women here and the thousands of women online telling you that you really don't know what you're talking about. You call it "a simple compliment". All these many, many women are telling you plainly, "We, the people who are supposed to be receiving this 'compliment', do not find it to be either friendly or a compliment; stop doing it." But go ahead, keep on telling earnest people to force their 'compliments' on people who've already said they don't like it. After all, you know what they should want!

tarantella64
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29 Jun 2014, 12:30 am

vickygleitz wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

Jono wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

No, it's not a numbers game. Most people are not playing a numbers game in dating. That's part of why PUA behavior's so loathsome.

Oy. Vicky, again, you're missing all the context here. This conversation was about whether it's normal for people to view dating as a numbers game. And the answer is no. People, not just autistic people but all people, in general, do not view dating as a numbers game. When I said "most people also have networks of friends", that's a reference to that group who doesn't view dating as a numbers game. The large set of all people. Not the smaller set of autistic people.

Quote:

jono wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

Well, that's just plain rude. But yes, people can have mild AS, or AS traits. That's part of why it's called a spectrum. And yes, I do better than most NTs (no, I did not say "in every way" -- that's you putting words in my mouth). Most people, NT or not, would have a lot of trouble managing as well as I do for as long as I have. Giving your kid a solid middle-class life with a community, raising her to be a good and happy person, seeing that she can get through college debt-free, building a substantial career, and maintaining good health and fitness while being a single mom without family support? That's pretty tough to do. Most people just don't have the energy. I got lucky, I do have the energy. I don't pull so many all-nighters any more, but for a while it was chronic.

tarantella64
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29 Jun 2014, 12:31 am

sly279 wrote:

I've learned not to give compliments not even when in a relationship.

Why?

vickygleitz
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29 Jun 2014, 12:52 am

tarantella64 wrote:

FelisIndagatricis wrote:

I completely agree with tarantella on this. Having a stranger come up to you and indicate sexual/romantic interest in you when you're just trying to go about your day is like getting a cold call from a pushy telemarketer wanting your credit card number. Except that you can hang up on the telemarketer and return to the safety of your living room.

When you're confronted with a stranger propositioning you in real life, you have to gauge whether he will cause you physical harm you if you reject him. This is not the sort of thing normal people want to go through when trying to buy a book. Just let us buy our freaking books without having to worry that we'll have a stalker following us! Creating anxiety about our safety is NOT romantic!

You might think, "Oh, it's just an innocent complement. Why get so bent out of shape?" Telling a stranger, "You look beautiful," with an expectation of reciprocal conversation (or even too much eye contact) isn't OK because women are smart enough to know that the follow-up thought to that is, "You look beautiful. I sure would like to stick my dick in you." It is not an innocent complement. It is really creepy.

Yep. That. Goldfish, apparently you're still a #yesallwomen virgin. It's almost like you've taken a vow of celibacy. But here, let me help you. You won't even have to wade through the whole thread:

http://time.com/114043/yesallwomen-hash ... -shooting/
http://sfglobe.com/?id=871&src=share_fb_new_871

I hear compliments on my physical appearance and how I dress quite often from gay guys. Really, they do not want to stick anything in me. Also from my 15 year old granddaughters friends. I'm pretty sure that they do not have a thing for 'little old ladies" and want to "do' me. And flirting...how do you suggest a person flirt without appearing sexist? And I am talking an Autistic person, how to flirt in a totally Autistic fashion? Not like an NT, because we are not NTs', and thank goodness more of our young men and women are learning that being Autistic
is incredible and that one of the most damaging thing an autistic can do is try to "pass.'like so many people of color, and gay people felt pressured to do for so long.

sly279
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29 Jun 2014, 1:56 am

tarantella64 wrote:

sly279 wrote:

I've learned not to give compliments not even when in a relationship.

Why?

like you've pointed out women don't like them. I had already got it mostly though before coming to wp
also giving gifts is bad.

sly279
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29 Jun 2014, 1:58 am

I like getting compliments at times. I won't show it though. i am confused by them. I don't feel they apply to me, but I also feel slightly better when getting them. I almost never get any though. maybe if i got more it would become an idea that I deserve them.

Eureka13
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29 Jun 2014, 8:34 am

We are absolutely NOT talking about receiving compliments from people we know. I have no problem whatsoever receiving compliments from my S.O., from friends, co-workers, and or acquaintances.

But random male strangers approaching a female in a public place and commenting on her appearance, when the woman was absolutely, positively NOT in that public place for the purpose of attracting male attention? No. Just no.

This is not to say that I have not been to a bar once or twice upon a time, all polished up and hoping to meet someone. Lord knows, I have. Thing is, I know the men are there for the same reason (although their reasons for wanting to meet someone may be different from mine), so it is not unexpected for a man to approach me in that setting and say "wow, you look beautiful!" (All compliments received in a bar setting are to be taken with a boulder of salt.)

But put me in a bookstore, a pharmacy, a grocery store, a library, a hardware store, and I am there for a particular reason that specifically does not include trolling for guys. So anyone who approaches me should have the intention of either helping me find what I came for (and that specifically does NOT include them), asking me for help finding something, or be prepared to be rebuffed.

Seriously, throughout my life, commenting on a stranger's appearance (in either a positive or negative way) was considered to be the height of rudeness according to those who believe in this thing called "manners."

FelisIndagatricis
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29 Jun 2014, 8:58 am

^^ Exactly!!

I enjoy getting massages from my husband. I consider this a good person to get massages from.
I enjoy getting massages from massage therapists at their places of business. I consider these good places to get massages.
I do NOT enjoy getting massages from strangers in the middle of the aisle at the bookstore. I (and many other women) do not consider this a good place to get massages.

I enjoy sharing sexual jokes with my husband. I consider this a good person to share sexual jokes with.
I enjoy sharing sexual jokes at a party. I consider this a good place to share sexual jokes.
I do NOT enjoy sharing sexual jokes with strangers in the middle of the aisle at a bookstore. I (and many other women) do not consider this a good place to share sexual jokes.

I enjoy getting remarks about my appearance from my husband. I consider this is a good person to get remarks about my appearance from. I consider them compliments.
I enjoy getting remarks about my appearance in nightclubs. I consider these good places to get remarks about my appearance. I consider them compliments.
I do NOT enjoy getting remarks about my appearance from strangers in the middle of the aisle at the bookstore. I (and many other women) do not consider this a good place to get remarks about my appearance. I do NOT consider them compliments.

FelisIndagatricis
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29 Jun 2014, 9:38 am

vickygleitz wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

FelisIndagatricis wrote:

Notice that I used the words "having a stranger come up to you and indicate sexual/romantic interest in you when you're just trying to go about your day," "confronted with a stranger propositioning you," and "an expectation of reciprocal conversation (or even too much eye contact)."

You're right that the gay guys and 15-year-olds are not expressing sexual/romantic interest. I imagine they're also not flicking downward glances at your body between aggressively direct stares at your eyes. This is about remarks from men who ARE expressing sexual/romantic interest. If an obviously gay man passes by with his partner and says, "Girl, that shirt looks great on you," I'm not going to think he's making advances at me or thinking about what my breasts would feel like. Therefore, not creepy. If an obviously straight guy says the same thing, especially if he leers or stops as if to start a conversation, then I would be creeped out because of the whole "unknown" factor that I was discussing earlier.

How do we suggest that men flirt?

Eureka13 wrote:

Here's where it becomes a reasonable (and non-threatening) tactic: if she's wearing an article of clothing with a college name or a sports team on it, comment on that. Ask her if she liked living in (whatever town the college is in), or if she goes to many of the (sports team's name) games. If she's holding a book, ask her if she's read anything else by that author and does she recommend his/her books?

tarantella64 wrote:

And yeah, guys have chatted me up about books I'm carrying, which is (if I'm in the mood) charming and is at least not about my legs. Actually one of the best chat-ups I've had in the last few years was from this drunk young man at a music festival who came up alongside me on the street and started trying to convince me to ditch my book in favor of one he liked better. He was actually pretty well-read and clearly harmless...

When you do that sort of thing, by the way, you allow the woman to remain an actual human being. She's not a piece of meat and you're having a conversation about a book, or a school, or what have you. If she's not interested in you, she can wrap it up and say toodles. It's a mistake to believe she wants you just because she didn't growl at you, or that she wants to date you because she's given you contact info related to what might be a legit question (about a school or book, say), but it means you might have made a friend and that something may develop from there.

FelisIndagatricis
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29 Jun 2014, 9:45 am

But the best advice on "How can I initiate a date?" came from Ladywoofwoof way back on page 1, the 3rd post in the thread and shortly before "dating/life coach" RyanLewty sent us down this rabbithole.

Ladywoofwoof wrote:

Perhaps you could meet women (or at least a woman) who you're interested in, by joining an interest group locally ?
Really though, I think this part of things can be a problem for many people if they're not into picking up the opposite gender in a bar or else "pulling" in night clubs.

As far as asking people out goes, I think it would be fine to do a little bit of getting to know somebody first and then say something like "would you like to go and do X together, sometime ?"
It might help if it's something you've talked about during the "getting to know each other a little bit" stage, and found that you both like.
For example, if you both like fantasy films then if one is on at the cinema, you could say "I saw that [Fantasy Film] is on at the cinema this week. Would you be interested in going to see that together some time ?"
:-)

kraftiekortie
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29 Jun 2014, 9:47 am

I approach things the way Ladywoof advises.

FelisIndagatricis
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29 Jun 2014, 9:52 am

:heart: That's probably why women haven't objected to your compliments. Right place, right time.

goldfish21
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29 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm

Y'all are nuts. Compliments are compliments, it's really that simple. Some of the posts here seem to be bordering on heterophobia, if that's such a thing. Oh noes, a heterosexual man said nice words to me.. eek, I'm scurred!! Nuts.

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Last edited by goldfish21 on 29 Jun 2014, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tarantella64
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29 Jun 2014, 1:07 pm

sly279 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

sly279 wrote:

I've learned not to give compliments not even when in a relationship.

Why?

like you've pointed out women don't like them. I had already got it mostly though before coming to wp
also giving gifts is bad.

Hi, sly -

It depends on the context. Like Felis and Eureka are pointing out, complimenting women you aren't involved with on their looks is probably a mistake, especially if you don't know them or they're co-workers. If you're romantically involved, compliments are much appreciated. The gray area is when you're dating but not actually involved yet. So let's say you're out on a first date: it's definitely appropriate to compliment what your date is wearing, though not in a leering way. If you've reached the point of, say, kissing, this is where the breathless "you're so beautiful" comes out. And from there things generally get more honest and funnier ("I love it when you ______.")

I think your partner will find it confusing if you don't compliment her or give her gifts when you're already involved.

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