Polyamory: Someone Please Help Me Understand

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nurseangela
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15 Aug 2015, 5:16 pm

Quote:

It just means we feel differently than you do about sex.

Like how? Is it just for the good feeling or is it to be closer to your partner and "bond"?

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rdos
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15 Aug 2015, 5:21 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Quote:

DId he actually say he does not see them as people, or sees them as objects? Is the comparison to animated toys yours or his?

It was his. I said people are real and have feelings. I don't understand how some people can mechanically do sex without feelings - I believe most of them are men (even NT men).

I thought the issue was bonding with sex? Having sex without having feelings for somebody (like in one-night-stands), and not bonding with sex (as is typically the case for asexuals) are completely different things.

nurseangela
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15 Aug 2015, 5:41 pm

rdos wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Quote:

DId he actually say he does not see them as people, or sees them as objects? Is the comparison to animated toys yours or his?

It was his. I said people are real and have feelings. I don't understand how some people can mechanically do sex without feelings - I believe most of them are men (even NT men).

He's was thinking of it as a business transaction with no feelings attached and that it wouldn't be talked about later on. I told him if I bonded with this other person there's a good chance I wouldn't be coming back because having my emotional needs fulfilled is more important than sex. I said Aspie men aren't real great with doing the emotional needs stuff. That's where the problem would come in.

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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
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nurseangela
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15 Aug 2015, 5:46 pm

rdos wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Quote:

DId he actually say he does not see them as people, or sees them as objects? Is the comparison to animated toys yours or his?

It was his. I said people are real and have feelings. I don't understand how some people can mechanically do sex without feelings - I believe most of them are men (even NT men).

Why would an asexual have sex at all if they are repulsed by it? I would want to throw up.

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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.

animalcrackers
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15 Aug 2015, 7:07 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Quote:

DId he actually say he does not see them as people, or sees them as objects? Is the comparison to animated toys yours or his?

It was his. I said people are real and have feelings.

Ah, okay. I don't understand that.

nurseangela wrote:

I don't understand how some people can mechanically do sex without feelings

I don't understand how so many people see/experience sex and love as one thing or as inseparable....it's a mystery to me.

nurseangela wrote:

animalcrackers wrote:

It just means we feel differently than you do about sex.

Like how? Is it just for the good feeling or is it to be closer to your partner and "bond"?

For me sex is more just a fun/enjoyable thing to do. I get how it can be used to express love or bond with someone...but so can giving someone a box of cookies or doing non-sexual activities with them -- for me there isn't this really huge difference like there is for other people; for me, sex is not the epitome of closeness and intimacy. It has little to no effect on how close and connected I feel to my partner. I could do without it in a committed relationship and feel no less loved/loving and just as close to my partner as I would if we had sex all the time.

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Fnord
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15 Aug 2015, 7:11 pm

Sex and love are two different things. The first is an activity, while the second is a state of mind. Just as you can love someone without ever wanting to have sex with them, so too can you have sex with someone without ever loving them.

Some people need a reason to have sex with their partner; others just need a partner.

nurseangela
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15 Aug 2015, 7:21 pm

Fnord wrote:

Yes, but with sex the love hormone Oxytocin is released and that's why women want to cuddle and bond after sex. I don't think that happens with men.

_________________
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I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.

Fnord
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15 Aug 2015, 7:35 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Sex and love are two different things. The first is an activity, while the second is a state of mind. Just as you can love someone without ever wanting to have sex with them, so too can you have sex with someone without ever loving them. Some people need a reason to have sex with their partner; others just need a partner.

Yes, but with sex the love hormone Oxytocin is released and that's why women want to cuddle and bond after sex. I don't think that happens with men.

Think again. Oxytocin may influence bonding behavior, but it does not control it, especially when there are other factors involved. While the relationship between oxytocin and human sexual response is still unclear, at least two studies have found increases in plasma oxytocin at orgasm in both men and women. Plasma oxytocin levels are notably increased around the time of self-stimulated orgasm and are still higher than baseline when measured five minutes after self-arousal. In other words, blood samples were taken in both male and female subjects, both before and after episodes of masturbation, and the oxytocin levels were measured. The authors of one of these studies speculated that oxytocin's effects on muscle contractibility may facilitate both sperm and egg transport.

I thought you were a nurse. Don't you ever check your medical facts before blurting something out?

References:

1) Carmichael MS, Humbert R, Dixen J, Palmisano G, Greenleaf W, Davidson JM (Jan 1987). "Plasma oxytocin increases in the human sexual response", in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 64 (1): 27–31. doi:10.1210/jcem-64-1-27. PMID 3782434.

2) Carmichael MS, Warburton VL, Dixen J, Davidson JM (Feb 1994). "Relationships among cardiovascular, muscular, and oxytocin responses during human sexual activity", in the Archives of Sexual Behavior 23 (1): 59–79. doi:10.1007/BF01541618. PMID 8135652.

Last edited by Fnord on 15 Aug 2015, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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15 Aug 2015, 7:35 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Yes, but with sex the love hormone Oxytocin is released and that's why women want to cuddle and bond after sex. I don't think that happens with men.

<----

rdos
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16 Aug 2015, 2:35 am

nurseangela wrote:

Yes, but with sex the love hormone Oxytocin is released and that's why women want to cuddle and bond after sex.

Question: Why don't you want to cuddle and bond without sex?
Answer: At least some women do, and they don't really need the sex part at all.

Besides, when I'm in love, my Oxytocin levels make me constantly high, so I don't need sex for that. It's probably the obsessions with the girl that triggers that.

rdos
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16 Aug 2015, 2:40 am

nurseangela wrote:

Why would an asexual have sex at all if they are repulsed by it? I would want to throw up.

To please their partner of course.

mpe
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16 Aug 2015, 7:37 am

RushKing wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

There's no difference between polyamory and polygamy in my mind. Most women cannot keep feelings out of the situation when sex is involved. As an example say that me and my Aspie friend were married and we did this polyamory. I would have feelings for every guy I slept with otherwise I'm not doing it. Thing is, if I'm also not getting my emotional needs met from my Aspie friend/husband (which is probably truer than not) then I'm going to be spending more time with the men I feel a connection with and I may also eventually leave my Aspie friend/husband since I can get all of my needs met with another man. That's the problem that's going to be encountered if NT women are involved. Why would a man want to take that risk? Aspies have a low rate of marriages lasting as it is.

Well I personaly don't believe in marriage to begin with. This dosn't mean i'm against commitment.

Exclusivity is not a requirement for commitment anyway.
In many societies, including my own, 'belief in marriage' tends to be assumed and expected. Not unlike religion in a theocracy...

Quote:

I think I would have more opportunities if polyamory was mainstream. I fall in love with women with boyfreinds and I end up getting hurt very bad because of monogamy.

Even in a poly friendly society it would still be possible for these women to not be interested in you (including because the are monogamous.)
The authoritarian idea of "Everyone should do as I do, even if they have to be forced to." seems far more constant with a mono mindset than a poly mindset.

Quote:

Too many people who don't apear to be naturaly monogamous are in monogamous relationships for some reason.

Where monogamy is pushed as the 'one twue way', 'correct', 'mature', etc. it's only to be expected that those ill suited to it will try it. Even where such relationships 'fail' the assumption tends to be that this is a personal failure. Rather than an issue related to what they were doing.

mpe
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16 Aug 2015, 8:13 am

animalcrackers wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Anyway you twist it, it's still cheating in the moral sense except "legally"

No, it is not.

It is probably called "cheating" because sleeping with someone other than your partner in a monogamous relationship is a violation of the agreed upon "rules" of the relationship. In a polyamorous relationship the rules are necessarily different because more than two people are involved.

Cheating is a betrayal of trust -- monogamy involves an expectation and an agreement/promise that your partner will love/sleep with only you, so if they love/sleep with someone else they are breaking their agreement/promise and violating your trust.

If you do not have any expectation that your partner will love/sleep with only you because you are both/all okay with having a non-monogamous relationship and have both/all agreed to a relationship involving multiple partners because that's what you want, then loving/sleeping with any of those agreed-upon partners is not in any way a betrayal of trust nor does it break the promise/agreement you have made about who will be loved/slept with; This means it is NOT cheating.

It is certainly possible for people to 'cheat' in poly relationships.
There are closed poly relationships (polyfi) where the rules with respect to 'cheating' are exactly the same as monogamy.
There are mono-poly relationships where the mono partner would be 'cheating' if they slept with anyone else.
In some poly relationships people must seek 'permission' from existing partner(s) before they can date/sleep with/whatever someone else.
A possibly poly specific way to 'cheat' would be to invent imaginary partners.

kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2015, 9:46 am

While people, even in monogamous relationships, often fantasize about other people when they are having sex, I don't believe this rises to the level of cheating in any sort of relationship.

I wouldn't like it---but it might be natural, at the point of orgasm, for a woman, say, to think of Brad Pitt, rather than me.

I wouldn't call her out on it if that is the case. Instead, I'll start thinking about the lady on the street whom I admired the other day.

I would hope, though, that I am always thinking about her in bed, and that she's always thinking about me.

nurseangela
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16 Aug 2015, 9:53 am

mpe wrote:

animalcrackers wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

Anyway you twist it, it's still cheating in the moral sense except "legally"

Oh my lord. I have never been so confused in my life.

_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.

mpe
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16 Aug 2015, 11:05 am

nurseangela wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Yes, but with sex the love hormone Oxytocin is released and that's why women want to cuddle and bond after sex.

There is no requirement that cuddling be preceded by sex (of any kind you can possibly imagine).

Quote:

I don't think that happens with men.

I think such generalisations tend to be sexist bovine excrement.

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